[jburks]

What bullet type do you guys recommend for shooting steel targets at 10 yards with .45acp? Is it ok to use FMJ or is the dangerous? Should I use cast lead bullets? HP? etc...?

[Starter52]

I've found that the kind of target has more to do with ricochets than the type of bullet. My range uses swinging metal targets that move when hit. The bullet still bounces off, but it drops down instead of back.

That being said, lead bullets are best for steel. I have used everything from wadcutters to spitzers. It's the target, not the bullet, that dictates ricochets, IMO.

We don't shoot steel any closer than 25 yards at my range. At that distance the spent slug (even FMJ) ends up in the dirt. We've never had a round come back.

I shoot .45 FMJ all the time at 25 and 50 yards. If your targets are proper, .45 FMJ at 10 yards should be OK.

[MCgunner]

I don't like getting closer than about 12-15 yards from pepper poppers, gives me the willies. I worry about lead splatter more'n a ricochet, though.

[obm]

frangible...but expensive:

http://www.sinterfire.com/home2.htm

[1911Tuner]

Either will do. Hard cast lead fragments almost into powder, and only occasionally do you get hit with spatter...and it only rarely draws blood...but once in a while, a large fragment will come back with enough force to break the skin. Therefore, a good pair of birdshot-rated shooting glasses is highly recommended. Goggles that cover the sides of your eyes is advised if you'll be shooting in groups, taking turns.

A forum member who came to visit from Mississippi three years ago can attest to that. I was shooting at steel from 15 yards, while he loaded magazines some 10-12 feet behind me. When I looked around, he was holding his temple with a trickle of blood running down his face.

By the time he got home three days later, the wound had festered, and he went to an ER to see what was wrong. The X-ray showed a sizeable chunk of lead against the occipital bone. If it had hit a half-inch or so further to the right, it would have cut his eye in half.

Ken Rainey now wears goggles...and I can say that I shot a cop and got away with it. Ain't that right, cousin Ken?:p

Safety glasses are a must whenever shooting steel at 25 yards or less. I've been hit several times, but have yet to lose blood...but it can and does happen.

[wally]

Good safety glasses are a must when shooting period, steel plates or not!

My experience is, I get tagged wtih splatter most often with .22LR believe it or not. And second most is hard cast lead .45ACP. Only drew blood once, was on my off hand middle finger.

This is counter intuitive, and my previous range had a "lead bullets only shooting steel" rule so I was a bit leary of using FMJ at first. But I think the jackets hold together enough to force the splatter mostly too the sides. Find lots of "dime-like jacketed bullet bottoms at the base of the rack. I think a plain lead bullet can (rarely) splash straight back -- if you've seen some of Doc Edgerton's high speed photos of lead bullets hitting a steel plate, it looks a lot like the photos of a milk drop hitting a plate.

Today was fairly typical, 200 rounds of .45ACP (50 lead reloads, 150 FMJ) 100 rounds of 9mm FMJ, 120 rounds of .40S&W (100 FMJ, 20 JHP) and 500 rounds of .22LR. Not tagged once.

--wally.

[jaysouth]

We had a rack set up with railroad track plates hanging on it. It was 25 yards in front of the covered firing line. A friend shot one of the track plates with a 7.62X39. A bullet fragment came back and penetrated his bicep.

At a range picnic a couple of months later, a member drilled a hole in a large red onion and ran a string through it, tying it in a loop. In front of our membership, he went up to our wounded vet and presented him with the "civilian order of the purple onion for self inflicted wounds".

At 25 yards, we have a bullet jacket come back once in a while. However, most bullets disintergrate when they hit the steel/iron plates. Next time you are shooting steel, lay some cardboard on the ground underneath. After shooting, observe the shrapnel holes in the cardboard.

[rockstar.esq]

So I think it's been made clear that splash back happens at closer ranges. What I really believe is more the cause than anything else is that people shoot at swinging targets that present the target 90degrees to the bullet's impact. Although the pivot often allows the splash back to hit at a downward angle, the spinners aren't often equipped with smooth bearings and sometimes their movement is impinged by this rough assembly. It doesn't take much for the "delay" in pivot to treat the ricochet like a stationary target. I use the teeth from a track excavator as my pistol targets and sadly they will often splash back when hit with ANYTHING at closer than about 10 yards. My rifle target is supported on a stand which holds the target with a leaning forward bias of at least 20 degrees. When I go down to check my target at the end of a range session, I find a trough cut by bulllet splashes right in front of the stand. Soft lead bullets (wheel weights) splash back worse than anything else. More often than not it's the lead hitting a small rock which is then propelled back at the shooters. Generally the effect is akin to getting hit by the crap flying off a weedwacker, however it doesn't make shooting fun.

[wally]

We had a rack set up with railroad track plates hanging on it. It was 25 yards in front of the covered firing line. A friend shot one of the track plates with a 7.62X39. A bullet fragment came back and penetrated his bicep.


I don't know what railroad track plates are, but random steel pieces will get pockmarked, especially when hit with rifles. These dimples focus the splatter back the way the bullets came.

Purpose built steel targets are made from armor plate grade steel, T2 I believe its advertised as. Our rifle gongs get really chewed up, but these are 100 yds minimum, usually 200 yds down range.

--wally.

[SeanSw]

I have shot at the steel railroad plates that lay beneath the track and have four holes in them for the spikes. They're nearly 1/2" thick and 8mm mauser blows clean through them. .22, 9mm, and .38 barely dimpled the same plate.

[RyanM]

You'd never get me to shoot any kind of hard target with anything but powder type frangible ammunition.

[Double Naught Spy]

When I looked around, he was holding his temple with a trickle of blood running down his face.

By the time he got home three days later, the wound had festered, and he went to an ER to see what was wrong. The X-ray showed a sizeable chunk of lead against the occipital bone. If it had hit a half-inch or so further to the right, it would have cut his eye in half.

Safety glasses are a must whenever shooting steel at 25 yards or less. I've been hit several times, but have yet to lose blood...but it can and does happen.

So the frag entered at the temple and traveled all the way around to the back of the head (under the skin?) where it came to rest against the occipital?

Personally, I thought shooting was a safety glasses pursuit, whether shooting steel or not. They are just proper safety gear.

-------

I am usually the only one where I shoot and I have no problem shooting steel up close, but I angle the steel away from me such that splatter passes to the side. Inside 5 yards, I use a 45 degree angle. This also presents the shooter with a very narrow target. At 5-10 yards, 30 degree seems to work fine. Once again, this is with nobody else around.

[Chuck R.]

We shoot steel targets quite a bit out at my place. I’ve bought AR520 Steel Targets from Arntzen that are rated for 7.62 at 100 meters. So far in over a year of use, not a bit of cratering or dimples. My stands also angle them downward at a slight angle to deflect the splash.

I shoot strictly lead SWCs, but my friends shoot FMJ ball or what ever is on sale at the time. We don’t shoot any closer than 7 yards and everyone wears eye protection. So far, not a single incident. I thing the target construction, surface (no dimples) and the angle all play a role in keeping steel safe.

Chuck

[1911Tuner]

DNS wrote:

>So the frag entered at the temple and traveled all the way around to the back of the head (under the skin?) where it came to rest against the occipital<
**********

Sorry...My bad. Not the occipital. The occular. My medical terminology is limited to the time that I helped Kelie study for her RN.

[M2 Carbine]

This has been my pistol caliber backstop for many years.
These 1/4 and 3/8 inch steel bullet traps, hanging plates and homemade swinging and spinning targets have been shot with untold thousands of lead and jacket bullets.
The steel isn't especially hard. It's what the offshore oil drilling rigs are built of.
I limit the bullet velocities to about 1,100fps (9mm).

I shoot from about 5 yards to 50 yards.

Contrary to what most people would tend to think, the slower the bullet is the more likely it is to come back and hit you.

Fast bullets, about 900+fps, splatter on the steel. The lead dust and very small fragments fly off the steel's edge, about 90 degrees to the shooter.

Slow bullets don't "blow up" and pieces as large as half the bullet will be found around the backstop. Usually no more than a couple yards away from the steel.
But I have had some fly back and land near the shooter.
I've never been hit with a large piece but I wouldn't think it would hurt you as much as someone throwing it at you.
But like 1911Tuner pointed out, there's always the possibility of the unlikely happening.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/ChronoandeMo.jpg

[jburks]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I've never shot steel targets before. I'm planning to start shooting at a new pistol range that has steel targets and wanted to know if there were any safety concerns that I should be aware of. The range requires that you stay at least 10 yards away from the steel. Sounds like it should be pretty safe as long as I wear eye protection (which I wouldn't consider shooting without anyway).

[Geronimo45]

Armor piercing. :cool:

[rockstar.esq]

Check out the thread titled ".50 cal trigger time" I made a post regarding range idots shooting .50BMG Armor Piercing at thier 100yd steel target. Long story short, they were packing their broken and dimpled target home early.

[Double Naught Spy]

M2 Carbine, were you testing the velocity of rounds AFTER they passed through the kitty that subsequently fell off the stool? Did you compute a kitty overpenetration potential coefficient?

rockstar.esq, actually you don't need AP ammo to punch holes in a good steel target at 100 yards. I ruined a nice MGM 500 Brinnell target at 100 yards by dropping 5 shots on the same spot after finally getting my scope zero'd. Basically, I just overwhelmed the steel with brutality. Each impact on the target didn't crater the target as much as it managed to simply dent it. Enough denting in the same spot and you get failure of the metal.

With that said, AP ammo will zip right through the same target as individual shots.