Teacher Suspended For Toy Gun


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Bruce333
October 12, 2006, 07:09 PM
searched and didn't see this posted yet.

What a crock! I've never liked the whole zero tolerance thing to begin with, and this just ticks me off about it even more.

http://www.wral.com/education/10060122/detail.html

Teacher Suspended For Toy Gun Used In Play
Man Had Prop Gun In Pants Pocket

POSTED: 12:11 pm EDT October 12, 2006

NAPLES, Fla. -- School officials in Florida are deciding what to do with a teacher who allegedly carried a toy gun around school property.

The Golden Gate Middle School teacher was suspended last week and is on administrative leave with pay. The teacher's name has not been released.

The sheriff's office said deputies were called to the school in Collier County, Fla., and found the teacher carrying the small plastic gun with a red tip in the back of his pants, but at no time was anyone in danger. He told deputies he found the toy in a prop box at the school and that it was used for a school play.

Collier County sheriff’s spokeswoman Kristin Adams said the teacher did not make any threats to anyone, and no criminal violations were found.

But the school district is conducting its own investigation and will interview teachers, staff and students at the school about the incident. Officials are expected to make a decision soon regarding the teacher's job status.

"In light of what everyone has been hearing about bullying and campus security, it probably makes people a little more nervous," Allun Hamblett, executive director of human resources for the district, told Naples News. "We need to assure parents, teachers and students in the community that our schools are as safe as they can be."

The paper reported that Hamblett said the toy gun strongly resembled a real gun.

"We need to look at any mitigating factors -- how (the gun) was discovered, when it was discovered, how it was handled," Hamblett said. "Rest assured, we take any threat seriously."

"Rest assured, we take any threat seriously." What threat?!

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johnsonrlp
October 12, 2006, 07:16 PM
...at no time was anyone in danger. Sure they were. They weere all unarmed in a school.

crunker
October 12, 2006, 07:18 PM
That's just ridiculous...

Autolycus
October 12, 2006, 07:48 PM
:barf:

Zero Tolerance just annoys the hell out of me. I am so tired of reading about crap like this. Jimmy has a Swiss Army knife so lets throw him out of school. Sammy brought a squirt gun lets expell him. Little Johnny said the word gun, we should send him for counseling. I am tired of the hysteria in schools. When I have kids I am going to home school.

plexreticle
October 12, 2006, 08:01 PM
Public schools, our tax dollars at work.

I would sell my guns before I let my kids go to public school.

ptmmatssc
October 12, 2006, 08:09 PM
Wow , those people would have had a heart attack had they been at my school back in the day . All the kids taking hunter safety would bring thier guns in so the teacher could check them out (safety stuff) and to help teach the safe way of handling them . Funny thing is , never had any kind of school attacks , and as far as I know , none of those students ever became "psycho killers" .

Standing Wolf
October 13, 2006, 12:02 AM
In light of what everyone has been hearing about bullying and campus security, it probably makes people a little more nervous...

Bullying? Precisely who is bullying whom?

DerringerUser
October 13, 2006, 01:21 AM
Zero Tolerance just annoys the hell out of me. I am so tired of reading about crap like this. Jimmy has a Swiss Army knife so lets throw him out of school. Sammy brought a squirt gun lets expell him. Little Johnny said the word gun, we should send him for counseling. I am tired of the hysteria in schools. When I have kids I am going to home school.

I agree completely. Unless he/she brings a real firearm or a dangerous weapon to school, then i dont see the problem. Although i do think that some less-lethal weapons should be allowed at school, of course with teacher approval and counseling. Such as a child that gangs are targeting, or has been mugged repeatedly at school. I would think of a very low voltage keychain stun gun. I think teachers should be allowed to bring weps to school, as long as its legally liscenced.

Remember what happened to that school in PA where the Amish girls got shot. That could've been avoided easily.

bigun15
October 13, 2006, 01:38 AM
It's because of things like these that make me so happy to show off the video on my phone of me shooting an AK-47 in a public school in California to a bunch of teenagers that want to see it.I'm ready for them to say something to me about it.

DirtyBrad
October 13, 2006, 02:16 AM
I could use a little paid leave...

Pilgrim
October 13, 2006, 02:33 AM
I said "I was talking about the shooting range and I shot a 9mm".
then they said try not to talk about it again and left.
It's always fun when one of my grandkids brags in school about going to the range and shooting a gun. The most famous was when one blurted out in class, "I shot a gun." There was no time frame or location to the statement, so her teacher was having a fhit sit hissy trying to figure out where the gun was.

Pilgrim

AJAX22
October 13, 2006, 02:42 AM
I actually found a .38 revolver in the prop box at our theatre. was beat up, but it worked, had a bunch of blanks with it

I turned it in to the teacher who carried it around for the rest of the day, he figured if he set it down it would walk off.

found out later it was leftover from a play that they had done a few years before. although I had trouble believing that anyone would just 'forget' a 38 snubby.

some guns are actually just cheaper than fake ones I guss.

Anteater1717
October 14, 2006, 03:15 AM
that revolver was probably for a track or a running event they always use them thats the only case that i can think of were a real gun would be let on campus without a police officire carying it.

i remember when i was in highschool and we started a race and the revolver cept misfiring and everyone cept jumping the line:D eventualy they brought out a backup one

thexrayboy
October 14, 2006, 03:19 AM
Well at least he wasn't busted for carrying a chicken nugget shaped like a gun.

The Real Hawkeye
October 14, 2006, 11:14 AM
I know a teacher who regularly brings in black powder firearms appropriate for the period of American History being taught. He also brings in appropriate ammo to show them, i.e., round balls and conicals. The kids find this inspiring, and it really gets them interested in learning. I wonder if this guy is eventually going to be arrested too.

carebear
October 14, 2006, 05:28 PM
Anteater,

Allow us to tell you of the good old days. Like in the '80s when school rifle teams shot .22's and they were stored on school property and carried, with ammo, in cases onto buses to go to matches at other schools.

Some of the elder statesmen can tell you of even in the 60's and 70's of taking rifles and shotguns to school because they were going to go shooting on the way home.

When I was in elementary school (late '70's) a friend of mine who had won a musk ox tag brought in the mounted head, a slide show (slides, look them up on wiki ;) ) and the rifle he shot it with.

All those guns yet nobody died. :D

bumm
October 14, 2006, 05:38 PM
>I know a teacher who regularly brings in black
> powder firearms appropriate for the period of
> American History being taught. He also brings in
> appropriate ammo to show them, i.e., round balls
> and conicals. The kids find this inspiring, and
> it really gets them interested in learning. I
> wonder if this guy is eventually going to be
> arrested too.

A teacher that can actually keep his students interested is priceless. Eventually, someone will complain, and if he isn't in serious trouble, at least he'll be forced to teach his class in a more boring manner. We'll all be safer for it. :(
Marty

expvideo
October 14, 2006, 05:49 PM
We should all email this administrator and let him know that this is not cause for alarm. If enough people are emailing him, it should convey the message that the public is not screaming for blood, but on the contrary.

EDIT: Allen Hamblett's (HR administrator for the district) email isn't listed, but his phone number is (239) 377-0351. We should all call and voice our opinions about this. I don't want to see an educator fired and have a tarnished record for simply picking up a toy gun from the prop room. If it wasn't allowed, it shouldn't have been on campus in the first place. This teacher needs our help, please do the right thing and call first thing monday morning.

cyco668
October 14, 2006, 07:09 PM
Back when I was in HS in the late '80's, I almost got in alot of trouble for having a water pistol. The principal realized we were just goofing around with a squirt gun and that i wasn't a problem student. But someone reported I had "a gun" , it was fluoresent orange and green, and they treated the matter very seriously.
I come from a very high crime area (DC) and support the tough laws dealing with guns and schools. There are exceptions to the policy. We didn't have a shooting team, but the ROTC had replicas. I think some even had some basic weapons training which involved shooting. A student forgot he had a shotgun in his car, reported it to the principal, and took it home at the end of the day. I believe guns have no place in our schools.
On the flipside, I lived in Turkey a few years when I was in elementary (military brat). We had 2 guards, with automatic rifles, on every school bus. At the base entrance (speed bumps and spikes), 2 SPs boarded the bus. One standing at the door with an M16, the other checking ID cards. That kind of security was necessary during that time and place. I don't think the US is there yet, and i hope we never are.

carebear
October 14, 2006, 07:24 PM
I'm in Anchorage, went to West High in the '80's.

Carried by an adult legally allowed to possess it, what about a gun (handgun) in particular makes it inappropriate to be in a school?

As opposed to, say, a shopping mall like the Dimond Center (also filled with teens)?

The Town Square in downtown (full of kids)?

Any local park?

A church?

What about a school makes that same lawfully carried gun so different than anywhere else? Especially since guns were in schools, with ammunition, possessed by students without being locked up just a few decades ago.

cyco668
October 14, 2006, 08:14 PM
I moved to Anchorage earlier this year from the DC area. The crime and violence here is nothing compared to the DC area. The DC area schools had to deal with armed drug dealers entering the schools, drive-by shootings right in front, and plenty of angry teens from bad homes. I know that guns are not a threat, it's the bad people holding them. Enough crime was happening within the schools to justify the policies. A few years after I finished school, my school had metal detectors and a police officer detail assigned to the school. This is suburban school, not an inner-city one. When Dimond Center, which is up the street from me, or churches start having their own crime and murder rate, they may make policy changes too.
I want to be clear about something; I don's believe guns are the problem, and I don't think that gun banning is the best answer. I do think that when enough children are being killed in school, something has to change. But is a shoot-out between the "good" students vs. the "bad" students in the hallways the right answer? That actually happened, and i don't see how having guns in school was a good thing. The incident was just a petty high-school fight that escalated. As usual, shots were fired. I don't know all the answers, I don't know the cure, but I know it can't stay that way.
My opinion. I like to be questioned. Someone may bring up a point that I never thought of, and my opinion may change. But this is where I stand now. :)

The Real Hawkeye
October 14, 2006, 09:29 PM
But this is where I stand now.Who are you arguing with? There are many, me included, who think that licensed adults should be allowed to carry on school grounds, i.e., you should not be subject to arrest and having your life ruined for exercising a right. What does that have to do with what you said?

carebear
October 14, 2006, 09:51 PM
Exactly.

Cyco,

You're making what is essentially a "straw man" argument.

(Almost :rolleyes: ) none of us are saying that kids should be able to carry in school. They couldn't do it legally in most states and nothing we're suggesting would change that.

The right to carry is reserved to adults of 21 outside of school (in almost all states that allow carry). We're just saying that if a teacher or principal or Groundskeeper Willie (or parent) can carry legally outside of school they should be able to carry inside school as well. They, in theory and practice, are no less trustworthy in school than out in town.

If the problem is non-students inside the school, that's a different issue and can be (and is) handled with different rules.

If a teacher or principle or janitor was armed at any of these school shootings there is a chance that they could have intervened sooner than the police were (and always will be able) to. Being 'shot back at' will by definition interrupt the attacker's plan and will almost certainly lead to a lower death/injury rate than letting them stalk unimpeded through the halls or barricading themselves in a room full of kids killing at will.

The argument "what about accidental hits by the "good guy"?" is specious. If they weren't there (recent experience has taught us) the killer could kill pretty much until they ran out of ammo and decided to eat a gun. If one or two accidental hits occur that's a decent trade for a dozen certain executions.

Besides, the numbers we have from civilian use of self-defense in public don't support the "inherent massive collateral damage" fears.

cyco668
October 14, 2006, 11:50 PM
I wasn't trying to argue or challenge anyone, so I apologize if it came off that way.
At the time, the legal age to carry was 18 in Maryland. Armed gang members were hanging around the school yards. If they didn't step on school grounds, they weren't trespassing. If no drugs were on them, the police couldn't remove them. The problem wasn't descent citizens carrying weapons, the problem was bad people carrying weapons, sometimes, although rarely, legally.
My next door neighbor was an FBI agent. He open carried every time he mowed his lawn. I never asked him why, but maybe he felt it was necessary to carry a gun while cutting the grass. My street was a quite one, but the area in general was bad. My neighbor may of not felt safe in his own front yard, and he had reason to feel that way. Schools were one of the few places were kids could escape the violence. At least in theory. Robberies and rapes still happened, but it was safer than the corner, or the mall parking lot.
Like everyone here in this forum, I own and owned handguns, shotguns, a rifles. I'm not anti-gun, but from my own experiences, schools and guns are a bad mix.
This forum isn't about school violence, but about a teacher possesing a fake gun while at school. If the teacher had it on him just because he didn't have a chance to properly secure it yet, the issue should be dropped and an apologize given to the teacher for blowing things out of proportion. If he carried it to be intimidating or for an ego-trip, he needs to be reprimanded.
I thought of alot more things to say, but I don't have a 13 child telling me that their teacher was busted for having a gun at school. I'm sure the parents wanted to know who and why, and what were the circumstances. The story the parents heard coming from a 13-14 yr old may not be completely accurate. Shouldn't they be concerned with what happened? I'm not a parent, I'm just speculating.
For those who don't think a toy gun is a threat: if you see someone pulling out a gun, when do you determine if it's a threat or not? Do you wait for them to pull the trigger to see if it goes bang or not? Do you wait for to be pointed at you so you can see if the tip is red? Do you try to get close enough to read the the inscriptions on the side? Or do you automaticaly presume it's a real gun and a threat until proven otherwise?
Once again, if I come off as a jerk, or as anything other than a friendly forum chatter, I apologize. You guys are my new friends! That should help you sleep at night! haha

carebear
October 15, 2006, 12:03 AM
No offense taken or intended in return cyco.

These gang members in MD, they could really carry legally at 18? I assume they needed a permit. If so, if they didn't have a criminal record (I presume a prerequisite for a permit) and aren't committing a crime, where's the problem? They aren't really a threat just standing there and, until recently, just being in a gang wasn't illegal. We need to be careful of labeling some group "unworthy" of carry if we don't know for a fact they are criminals.

I assume they could be moved along for loitering or something if they had no reason to be at the school gates. Cops have a lot of options in that sort of situation.

Anyway, welcome to the free states. :D

Deaf Smith
October 15, 2006, 12:06 AM
Zero Tolerance = Zero Intelligence. And this is especially true with schools.

MechAg94
October 15, 2006, 02:39 PM
Yes. Zero Tolerance is simply an excuse. Administrators don't have to make unpopular decisions then. They can just point to the policy. What seemed like a good idea has bad consequences.

carebear
October 15, 2006, 02:44 PM
Also, if the administrator and the usual crop of miscreants happen to be of different skin tones then they can be accused of enforcing the rules in a racially biased way.

Zero tolerance removes the risk.

It's all about CYA and dodging personal responsibility for decisions on the part of staff.

B yond
October 15, 2006, 05:04 PM
BAck when I was in High School a friend of mine was shooting off a cap gun, i think it might have been entirely orange except for the handle. He was doing this in the morning before school about a block down the street. At lunch time our entire group of friends was swarmed by about a dozen cops with guns drawn. :eek:

Some concerned citizen had seen him playing around that morning and called the cops. :uhoh:

It's bad enough the gun grabbers try to take away our weapons, but toy guns too? This is just nuts. :barf:

LAR-15
October 15, 2006, 05:11 PM
If I were that teacher and I get fired, lawyer up and sue the school district and the administrators each one personally.

:mad:

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