Holsters: Hip Vs. Thigh


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CountGlockula
October 13, 2006, 01:12 AM
Looking to check out the difference between these two.

VOTE!!!!

What are the advantages/disadvantages?

And which brand keeps your gun unscathed?

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Eleven Mike
October 13, 2006, 01:17 AM
I find it's best to just carry my gun around in my hand.

hexidismal
October 13, 2006, 01:25 AM
Thigh ? How the heck do you conceal and carry on your thigh ? :neener:

usp_fan
October 13, 2006, 05:06 AM
The real purpose of a thigh rig is to get the gun below body armor or pack straps, or other gear. The gun on your hip is usually more easily reached and protected.

--usp_fan

asknight
October 13, 2006, 05:24 AM
Strictly depends upon the mission...

sicario103
October 14, 2006, 07:32 PM
Like usp_fan said, unless you got a lot of gear on you that hampers you from carrying a hip holster, there's not other viable reason for you to carry a thigh holster. It's long and slow to draw, harder to protect (from bumping it, BG etc.) And unless you're in police force or military, why would you use them?!

I know a few civilian people that carry them on thigh holsters at the range.... I find it pathetic... what are they trying to accomplish... trying to pretend they are in some commando unit?! lol And oh yeah.... they suck....all talk nothing else....

Jeff White
October 14, 2006, 08:05 PM
Thigh holsters were created to solve the problem of accessing a handgun while wearing cumbersome equipment that precludes the use of a hip holster.

I just removed the top strap from the Safariland 6004 I use for the Tac Team so that I could get the pistol as high as possible. All you need is for it to clear your body armor/load bearing vest. Many people who use thigh holsters on duty make similar modifications so that their pistol isn't any lower then necessary. Some guys are using a hard extension for the Safariland 6280 to lower the standard hip holster enough to clear their load out.

My personal opinion is that unless you need to wear a thigh holster to clear your load out, you will be better served with a standard hip holster.

Wearing part of your load on your thighs has a high CDI factor, but it's cumbersome and really only suited to fairly short term dismounted operations. You don't want to be making an 8K approach march with a handgun on one thigh and 5 pounds of subload on the other.

Jeff

Eleven Mike
October 14, 2006, 08:22 PM
I've never worn a thigh holster. Would they be easier to reach when driving, than a hip holster?

Jeff White
October 14, 2006, 08:31 PM
No they aren't that accessable when seated in a vehicle. Many soldiers doing mounted operations in Iraq are using an M4 pouch or even mounting a holster on the front of their chest rig to allow them to access their handguns while mounted.

I have found that crossdraw and ankle holsters (worn inside of weakside leg) provide the best access while driving. I know of some police officers who mount a kydex holster to the bottom of the steering column so they can access a firearm while seated behind the wheel.

Jeff

Eleven Mike
October 14, 2006, 08:32 PM
M4 pouch? I guess I've been out too long.

Jeff White
October 14, 2006, 08:36 PM
The pouch that holds two M4/M16 mags. There are a couple manufacturers making a dual purpose pouch, two M4 mags or a handgun.

Jeff

JLStorm
October 14, 2006, 09:03 PM
I can wear a III-A vest and an OOB holster with no problems, but if you were to need full on tactical body armor you really nead a thigh rig. Obvioulsy its only a small minority of people that actually need a thigh rig. I think I would laugh if I saw anyone other than military or swat wearing a tactical thigh rig...

Eleven Mike
October 14, 2006, 09:58 PM
I voted for thigh-master just because I like the phrase.

Thigh-master. It's just so naughtily delicious.:o

sicario103
October 15, 2006, 03:25 AM
Originally Posted by Eleven Mike

Would they be easier to reach when driving, than a hip holster?

Neither one should be used while driving. Also forget about carrying it between the seat and console because it still requires you to move and it is also too noticible. The best way to carry a firearm while in an automobile is unholstered under your left thigh pointing towards the door. It's fast, does not require much movement (hand, body) and very concealeble. I always have it under my leg whenever I'm in a car either as a driver or passenger.

Jeff White
October 15, 2006, 03:31 AM
The best way to carry a firearm while in an automobile is unholstered under your left thigh pointing towards the door.

And if you are involved in a sudden acceleration or hard braking action or a collision, you've probably lost your weapon because it flew out from under your leg and it's now somewhere at your feet. You're now unarmed.

Check out the story of the 1986 Miami FBI shootout. One of the agents, Grogan I think did exactly this and when he needed his weapon, he couldn't find it.

Jeff

Eleven Mike
October 15, 2006, 03:44 AM
I always have it under my leg whenever I'm in a car either as a driver or passenger.I guess if you're a passenger, you may not have much choice. But when driving your own ride, isn't that a lot of unnecessary gun-handling and potential "brandishing"? Perhaps you could arrange to have another gun accessible in the car?

TechBrute
October 15, 2006, 12:20 PM
This poll is like voting between a corvette and a pickup truck. Neither will do when you need the other.

TechBrute
October 15, 2006, 12:34 PM
Neither one should be used while driving. Also forget about carrying it between the seat and console because it still requires you to move and it is also too noticible. The best way to carry a firearm while in an automobile is unholstered under your left thigh pointing towards the door. It's fast, does not require much movement (hand, body) and very concealeble. I always have it under my leg whenever I'm in a car either as a driver or passenger.I don't mean this as an attack on the poster, but I disagree with every bit of this advice. If you spend a lot of time in your car and want to carry geared toward that, get a cross-draw holster, shoulder holster, fanny pack, mounted holster, etc. Having the gun unholstered under your leg is a good way to wind up with it on the floor somewhere, whereabouts unknown to you.

Since there is a MUCH greater chance of you winding up in an accident than having to use your gun in a car, carry with that in mind. How much would it stink if you were rear-ended and your gun wound up under one of the pedals on the floor, preventing you from breaking or accelerating out of a subsequent accident? Or, how dumb would you feel if someone was doing a bump and jump on you where they bump you to get you to stop so they can carjack you, and the bump caused you to lose track of the very gun you would want to employ in the carjacking?

CountGlockula
October 15, 2006, 03:50 PM
Appreciate the input guys.

JLStorm
October 15, 2006, 04:33 PM
If you spend a lot of time in your car and want to carry geared toward that, get a cross-draw holster, shoulder holster, fanny pack, mounted holster, etc.

I have to agree with this. I was "forced" to start carrying in a shoulder holster through one of the companies I work with and as against the idea as I was in the beginning since I had always carried OOB or IWB strong side in the past I have grown to really like it the last few weeks. It is SO much easier while in a car or while wearing a blazer or jacket, that the speed you might lose from a cross draw is more tham made up for by the ease of reach in many situations.

Greg Dunn
October 15, 2006, 06:41 PM
Thigh holsters are great for tactical gear, but for everyday use I don't see the need for them.

If you ride a desk or sit in your car a lot you probably need to invest in a second holster.

My recommendation for the car/desk holster is a clip on crossdraw holster that you can throw on to hold your weapon but switch back to your regular holster for standing/walking situations.

Several makers offer "car" holsters and or clip crossdraws.

MachIVshooter
October 15, 2006, 08:52 PM
I've never worn a thigh holster. Would they be easier to reach when driving, than a hip holster?

No. Much more difficult, in fact.

A thigh holster is pretty much the least desireable mode of on your person carry. More difficult to access from any position than the hip or under arm, it becomes even worse when you are sitting or kneeling than when standing.

IMO, they are only useful for handguns that are too long to be drawn from a hip holster, such as a 10"+ barreled hunting revolver.

This is coming frrom someone who's fingertips are 2" above the knee when standing. (5'11" with 6'3-1/2" armspan)

sicario103
October 16, 2006, 01:49 AM
Originally Posted by Jeff White

And if you are involved in a sudden acceleration or hard braking action or a collision, you've probably lost your weapon because it flew out from under your leg and it's now somewhere at your feet. You're now unarmed.

Well unless you were in a fighter jet that just took off a carrier sudden accelaration is moot. Now, I've done real sudden hard braking and my gun did not even shift. I don't mean just put it anywhere under your leg, the gun should be more towards your crutch past half your thigh and well tucked. Now collition, here it would have to be a very hard collition for a gun to really fly off and chances are you would most likely be hurt or stunt that drawing your gun might not even be possible at all. But normally your reaction would be to tense up and push your leg down and forward to brace for collition.
The one time I got rear ended, my gun did not shift and neither did the gun from the guy that rear ended me (who happened to be a friend of mine) . For anyone that is from Venezuela would be familiar with the following m.o. At night on the Panamericana highway right at km 1 (which is surrounded by some of the worst slums), thieves either put huge chunks of debri or obstacles on the road to force cars to stop or stopping them by hanging a rock from the pedestrian bridge above so it would break the windshield's of the cars when they drive through it to rob them. So, you want to drive fast out of there but not too fast that you would not be able to avoid something on the road. Anyways, one night driving home from a party, you can say I was pretty drunk, in the last second I slammed on the breaks when I saw some garbage on the road. A friend of mine driving behind me hits me from behind hard enough to cause damage to both cars especially mine. But we did not fully stop (and my first reaction after the collition was to reach for my gun), we sped up and stopped at a gas station further down.

Originally Posted by Eleven Mike

But when driving your own ride, isn't that a lot of unnecessary gun-handling and potential "brandishing"?

Do you mean "unnecessary gun handling" as in having to unholster your gun and put it under your leg and having to reholster it again when you exit the car? If yes, no I don't think it would be unnecessary. I do it all the time, it's kinda like an automatic thing for me. If for some people think that this is unnecessary gun handling for safety reasons then maybe they shouldn't carry at all. For brandishing, I don't think so either. Your legs do cover most of it. Well, I forgot to mention before that tinted window is a must.

Originally Posted by BruteTech

If you spend a lot of time in your car and want to carry geared toward that, get a cross-draw holster, shoulder holster, fanny pack, mounted holster, etc.

I don't think it's a good idea to use any type of holsters unless if you don't wear seat belts since it would get in the way. Neither would be if you're wearing a jacket. For mounted holsters, depending on the location it would either be too visible or hard to reach.

This is actually a common technique that people (civilians, police and military) use when they are driving due to the high risks of potential kidnapping and robbery in my country.

Eleven Mike
October 16, 2006, 09:24 AM
So, you're holstering/unholstering the gun while the car-door is closed?

TechBrute
October 16, 2006, 10:46 AM
I don't think it's a good idea to use any type of holsters unless if you don't wear seat belts since it would get in the way. Neither would be if you're wearing a jacket. For mounted holsters, depending on the location it would either be too visible or hard to reach.
Obviously this guy's mind won't be changed, but for safety's sake, I just hope no one takes his advice.

This is actually a common technique that people (civilians, police and military) use when they are driving due to the high risks of potential kidnapping and robbery in my country.You've just had civilians, police, and military tell you it's a bad idea.

dragongoddess
October 16, 2006, 10:58 AM
How about the front of the seat. All one would have to do is naturally drop their arm on their legs to access the weapon. Same thing for a drivers side holster mount. One can have their left arm on the arm rest with hand around the pistol.

sicario103
October 16, 2006, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by Eleven Mike

So, you're holstering/unholstering the gun while the car-door is closed?

Yes, you want to minimize the chances of anyone finding out that you are armed. Tinted windows, up or abit open only.

Originally Posted by TechBrute

Obviously this guy's mind won't be changed, but for safety's sake, I just hope no one takes his advice.
You've just had civilians, police, and military tell you it's a bad idea.

You're quite right, I won't change my mind about it. Again, if safety is such a huge issue because of the notion that unholstering/holstering a gun in a car is such a hazzard then maybe carrying a gun as a whole should be reconsidered. If confidence is low in gun handling then some practice is in call.

Every continent or country whether you're a police officer, in the military or the average joe differs somewhat and are influenced by different schools of thoughts. Say for example North America, since crime rate is not nearly as high and/or as frequent as in a country in South America, there will be a difference in the way things are seen and dealt with such as the way the police deals with a BG or the way people carry. What somone might find excessive or even extreme for their individual situation does not mean it cannot or should not be applied should they choose to take that extra step. Like when I go eat at a restaurant, I always sit with my back to the wall and if possible in a corner and place my gun under my left leg. For example, driving courses (I don't know how it's call) that teaches you maneuvers to avoid or evade if somone tries to kidnap or kill you while on the road. In North America, that would be excessive, hell I even say you're too paranoid if you think you need it. But somone in Eastern Europe might find that necessary. So does that mean you shouldn't take it if you live in the US?

sicario103
October 16, 2006, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by dragongoddess

How about the front of the seat. All one would have to do is naturally drop their arm on their legs to access the weapon. Same thing for a drivers side holster mount. One can have their left arm on the arm rest with hand around the pistol.

When you say the front of the seat, do you mean over the edge at the front of your seat?

The driver side holster mount is not too bad. But the problem with that is that it might be visible if the window is open on the co-pilot side. First, the quickest access to it without requiring much movement would be with your left hand which means your angle of engagement is limited on your left side forcing you readjust your seating position, unless you don't mind pointing or shooting with your left hand at odd angles. Lastly, if you readjust your seating position to engage a threat to your left, steerring your car might be more difficult if there's a need for you to make a quick and safe get away or swirve.

mattf7184
October 16, 2006, 06:55 PM
Like the other members here, I hope no one takes the horrible advice of putting a gun under your leg. This sounds like it comes from someone who has never been in an accident before...like people who refuse to wear seatbelts or mothers who insist their babies don't need baby seats and they can hold them...

Bartholomew Roberts
October 16, 2006, 11:45 PM
Again, if safety is such a huge issue because of the notion that unholstering/holstering a gun in a car is such a hazzard then maybe carrying a gun as a whole should be reconsidered. If confidence is low in gun handling then some practice is in call.

I am curious how you avoid sweeping your own body with the muzzle when placing the pistol in this position or when presenting the pistol from this position?

Are you using a pistol with a manual safety? Are you concerned about something protruding into the trigger guard as you sit on the pistol?

sicario103
October 17, 2006, 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts
I am curious how you avoid sweeping your own body with the muzzle when placing the pistol in this position or when presenting the pistol from this position?

I don't understand what you mean by "avoid sweeping your own body with the muzzle..."

I know I'll get my head bit off again but... When I'm carrying, if it's not a single action pistol, I won't bother to use the safety at all. I am very confident about myself and carrying. Don't get me wrong, I'm a very careful person that doesn't mess around carelessly with a weapon.

IMHO something protruding into the trigger is highly unlikely to none, so I'm not worry about it at all.

Originally Posted by mattf7184
This sounds like it comes from someone who has never been in an accident before...like people who refuse to wear seatbelts or mothers who insist their babies don't need baby seats and they can hold them...

I been doing this the first day I got my first gun... which is about 10 years or so. I have friends and people that I know of that have been doing it way back when I was in my early teens with no problem. And Yes, I wear seatbelts and always made sure my nephews were well tucked into their babyseats.

mattf7184
October 17, 2006, 02:07 AM
And Yes, I wear seatbelts and always made sure my nephews were well tucked into their babyseats.

And what do you think would happen if a car's occupant was not strapped in and there is a sudden negative acceleration? Do you really think that the gun is going to stay under your leg?

And have your friends ever had an accident while carrying under their leg?

Bartholomew Roberts
October 17, 2006, 12:53 PM
I don't understand what you mean by "avoid sweeping your own body with the muzzle..."

I mean that when you place the pistol underneath your leg inside the car, it seems as though it would be impossible not to point the pistol at parts of your body you do not wish to shoot. Likewise, when you draw the pistol from that position.

This strikes me as a problem because of two reasons:

1) I don't care for presentation methods that involve pointing my own pistol at my own body while under time pressure and fear of imminent death or serious injury.

2) Deliberately disregarding one of the four rules of firearm handling (http://thehighroad.org/library/rules.html) - especially on something you do multiple times on a daily basis - is inviting trouble. The whole point of the four rules (http://thehighroad.org/library/rules.html) is that you have to violate more than one of them in order to have a negligent discharge. A method of carry where you consistently and deliberately violate one of them on a daily basis makes the margin for human error very slim indeed.

IMHO something protruding into the trigger is highly unlikely to none, so I'm not worry about it at all.

Do a quick search here at THR - it happens more often than you might think. Have you ever given much consideration to what is in your pockets when you sit on that pistol? For that matter, what happens when that pistol starts moving forward at 70mph after a sudden stop and the only thing stopping it from flying away is the friction from you sitting on it? Think there might be an opportunity for clothes, keys in your pocket, or some other item to get wedged into that trigger guard?

I can think of plenty of reasons why this method of carry is a bad idea.

sicario103
October 17, 2006, 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by mattf7184
And what do you think would happen if a car's occupant was not strapped in and there is a sudden negative acceleration? Do you really think that the gun is going to stay under your leg?
And have your friends ever had an accident while carrying under their leg?

Yes, it will stay under your leg. I've slammed on the brakes, even been in an accident and it didn't move and neither my friends or I have had any accidental discharges while carrying this way (Check my other reply on this same page). You would have to be in a real bad accident for your gun to actually come off, but then again you would probably be seriously hurt or stunt let alone defend yourself against an assailant.

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts
I mean that when you place the pistol underneath your leg inside the car, it seems as though it would be impossible not to point the pistol at parts of your body you do not wish to shoot. Likewise, when you draw the pistol from that position.
it happens more often than you might think. Have you ever given much consideration to what is in your pockets when you sit on that pistol? For that matter, what happens when that pistol starts moving forward at 70mph after a sudden stop and the only thing stopping it from flying away is the friction from you sitting on it? Think there might be an opportunity for clothes, keys in your pocket, or some other item to get wedged into that trigger guard?


Yes, you will be briefly pointing at parts of your body (your legs) when you unholster to transfer the gun under your left leg and vise-versus with this method of carry. If you come to think about it this is no more dangerous than loading/unloading or holstering/unhosltering a firearm at any given position. A firearm does not discharge on its own, the key here to remember is one of the golden rules: keep your finger off the trigger.
Ofcourse, accidents due to human error do happen when you're dealing with firearms. But it could also likely happen from loading, unloading, drawing, carrying a gun in your pocket etc.
I don't wear cargo pants or place anything on my back left pocket. You can't trigger off a gun from a dead stop with friction from your leg or seats, plus the trigger is pointing towards the door (Try it out yourself- place your gun under your leg <pointing to your left side> and grind against it or drag it with your hands all you want).

The important thing to remember when dealing with any type of weapon is not just following the rules but to practice, practice and then some more. The range that I go to has a sweet car set up (It's a real car- just the front of it everything from the steerring wheel, front seats, roof to the bumper). You're sitting inside the car, the lights in the room are shut off and they place targets at ramdom places (180* shooting) and you engage the targets when they suddenly turn the lights on. I've done it till my fingers bled, so much that I even hanged a decoration on the mirror lol.

Don Lu
October 17, 2006, 08:56 PM
Im new here and I have actually read a few of Secarios post inthe past when i was just checking things out and have enjoyed his input for the most part. I have been a gun owner for only a few months and just bought a IWB holster last week, but the method of car carry he is using does not seem like one that should be recommened or followed. Just because you have done it w/o incidence doesnt mean its safe. I know smokers can live long lives to die of natural causes in their 90's doesnt mean you should recomend that people smoke. plenty of people have free and wild sex with many partners, also cant say this should be "recommended " behavior. just my 2 cents.

MachIVshooter
October 18, 2006, 03:01 PM
Yes, it will stay under your leg. I've slammed on the brakes, even been in an accident and it didn't move and neither my friends or I have had any accidental discharges while carrying this way (Check my other reply on this same page). You would have to be in a real bad accident for your gun to actually come off, but then again you would probably be seriously hurt or stunt let alone defend yourself against an assailant.

I don't remember all the specifics, but awhile back I read about a study in which a very stout rugby player was covered in protective gear, placed in the backseat of a car, buckeld into a harness and instructed to hold onto a 5 lb. bag of flour with all his strength. Then, the car was run into a wall at 15 MPH. He was unable to hold onto that 5 lb. bag.

Eleven Mike
October 18, 2006, 03:06 PM
Was the bag under his thigh?

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