Reassure my shotgun

[DirtyBrad]

Tell me about all of the times you left the house with your 870 chambered and on safe and came home to find it unfired and not into the liquor.

I've had my 870 and a USP for a long time, and just got an AR-15. I keep the pistol in a safe bolted to the bed and the long guns in a gun cabinet in the closet. I've always kept the pistol cocked and locked and the shotgun safety off, empty chamber.

I'd like to keep the AR chambered and on safe, which is making me think that I should keep the shotgun in the same condition so that all of my guns are set up the same. No matter which gun I grab goes safety off, then a short trigger pull.

I think this is the right move and is actually safer because of its simplicity. I just want to hear all of you wise 870 owners assure me that it has a great safety and that it won't sneak out at night and attack me. Thanks.

[kmrcstintn]

***home defense tactics--not hunting tactics***

I have owned more Mossy 500's than Remmy 870's; my current shotty is a Remmy...either way, I keep the chamber unloaded, hammer uncocked (hammer spring decompressed), and safety off...

I find it more natural to pick up the shotgun and work the slide (which loads a shell and cocks the hammer) than to fumble around and try to locate the safety and switch it off (whether it is located on the trigger guard or on the back of the receiver)

I stick with what is more natural for ME and I feel SAFER that I can get the shotgun into action quicker and easier

FYI...I rely on hammer-down DA revolvers and hammer-down DA/SA semiautos and not on cocked-and-locked SA handguns...again, just my flavor and the way I grew into maturity in the shooting sport

***whatever you choose, make sure it is natural for you and doesn't require alot of cognitive initiative...when fight-or-flight kicks in, you run on instinct and muscle memory***

[kmrcstintn]

...

[Lee Lapin]

Brad,

I can't tell you what's right for you, unfortunately. You'll have to decide that for yourself. The main question as I see it is whether anyone else has any chance at all of access to the firearms you leave "hot" (round chambered, cocked, safety on). If the answer to that is 'yes,' then you need to reconsider the condition in which you leave your guns- they should of course be secured out of the reach of any chance encounter from a child or anyone else who is not a 'designated operator' of said firearm. You say you keep them in a closet gun cabinet- do you remove your long gun(s) every night for bedside duty, and return them to safe storage every time you leave home or leave them unattended, out of your direct presence?

The secondary question is whether you want to leave a defensive long gun in such a condition that all that is necessary to fire it is to remove the safety and pull the trigger. How soundly do you sleep? Do you dream vividly? Do you ever sleepwalk, or act out portions of your dreams in a physical manner? If so you might wish to reconsider the location/condition in which you leave your defensive firearms.

I pocket carry a handgun at home at all times I'm awake, either a S&W 642 or a Kahr PM9. Handguns are instant-access firearms and are on my person/under my direct control, and so are kept "hot." Long guns- any of several 870s and one AR-15 carbine that are outside the safe when we are home- have loaded magazines but are kept with empty chambers and hammers down. I want it to be necessary for someone to have to deliberately load the chamber on the long gun before it can be fired- if there is time to reach it and bring it to bear, then there is time to chamber a round in the process. Otherwise, that's what the pocket pistols are for.

I was trained to maintain long guns in 'cruiser ready' a long time ago, it is an established habit and one I have no trouble continuing to follow. If you decide to go this route, you should establish for yourself the habit of clearing the chamber both visually and by feel in conscious fashion (the reflex action should be to clear the chamber before dropping the hammer, the process of looking and feeling should be conscious) before you ever drop the hammer on what you think is an empty chamber. Make SURE. BOOM instead of 'click' can ruin your day.

Also note that my wife and I share our household with one medium sized very alert dog (a Brittany) who will bark at disturbances in the night, and one very large and very, very protective mastiff who DOES NOT like strangers, period (not even sm with a pocketful of jerky and peppermints could win this one over). We live in a rural area, half a mile from the nearest paved road, have no children, relatively few visitors, and fences (electric) around the house with gates that are always locked. The complete picture of normal goings-on at Casa Lapin is likely different from that at your house, analyze your situation, decide what you can safely live with, and act accordingly. Odds are you risk more from an unintended discharge than from a surprise attack, if the numbers in your area are anywhere near normal. I am not encouraging unpreparedness, of course- just due consideration of the risks you face.

As always, any safety on any firearm is merely a mechanical device, and mechanical devices can fail. The true safety is between your ears, a rigid adherence to the Four Rules is your best protection.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

[DirtyBrad]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses.

The pistol is kept next to the bed every night and returned to its safe every morning. The long guns are kept in a security cabinet at all times. There are no kids around. Both safes are locked up during the day. I'm not overly worried about them falling into the wrong hands and I don't sleepwalk or act out in my sleep or anything like that.

I feel comfortable with any of my guns in this condition and will keep practicing and training with them set up like this. As I said, I'm just looking for a little reassurance that the 870 mechanical safety is reliable and not prone to wear over time, slipping, breaking, or anything crazy like that.

Thank you again.

[Third_Rail]

I've heard (but cannot verify) that most pumps, if not all, will fire if dropped incorrectly while a round is chambered. Something to think about.

[Lee Lapin]

Brad,

Safeties on 870s are about like any other part of the 870 design- simple, reliable and time proven. The exception IMHO is the J-lock safety Remington has been inflicting on the shooting public, I will not have one on any 870 in my house, period. The first I heard of it years ago was a description of one locking itself without the key on the firing line in a shotgun class run by a well known instructor, and since then I have had no use whatsoever for the design. Any number of folks have deliberately manipulated them to the locked position without using the key, and of course it requires use of the key to unlock when that happens. Fortunately all the parts from the original configuration are available and are easily changed out to return the safety to its original form.

Note that as on many modern designs, the safety on the 870 blocks only the trigger and does not lock the hammer. Also, as indicated previously, safeties on any firearm are mechanical devices and can fail. With that said, the safety on an 870 is as safe and durable as any other trigger-block safety design. Regardless of that, safety is in the hands of the user- the shooter matters more than the gun does.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc

[DirtyBrad]

Lee,

Thank you very much. That is what I was expecting from the 870, old workhorse that she is.

I should really take mine apart and get a better sense of the workings. That was one thing I really liked about building up my AR, that I can picture how everything works because I assembled it myself.

Thank you for reminding me about the J key thing on the safety. I have that on mine and need to get it switched out. I'll check out Brownells.

[Lee Lapin]

Don't get too carried away with the disassembly. Beyond swapping out the safety button, detent and spring (a relatively easy task), you probably shouldn't get into the trigger plate assembly much more than that. Some things are best left alone...

lpl/nc

[DirtyBrad]

Well, there was a chance I wouldn't have if you hadn't said that... :D

I don't need to pull things apart entirely, but I would like to understand the mechanism better. Right now, I don't know if the trigger is connected to the leg bone or what.

I think I'll order the new safety and do it then.