Recoil: 20 gauge vs 410


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Shel
October 14, 2006, 09:40 PM
Please don't flame me or make fun of me, this is a serious question. I was wondering how much of a difference there was in 20 gauge recoil vs a 410 shotgun.

Today was my first shotgun experience, I shot a 410 shotgun. I was a bit surprised at the recoil. Not that I couldn't handle it, I just had no idea it would would have as much recoil as it did.

I have heard that a shotgun is the best choice for home defense. I have also heard a 410 is not acceptable for home defense so I figure a 20 gauge might fit the bill.

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The Deer Hunter
October 14, 2006, 09:44 PM
How big are you?

Are you shure you cannot handle a 12?

Shel
October 14, 2006, 09:51 PM
I'm not that big :o


but I tell you what, I just THOUGHT shooting .22 was fun, blasting targets with the shotgun is TONS more fun


BUT A LOT more expensive :(

wdlsguy
October 14, 2006, 09:56 PM
What kind of .410 were you shooting and what kind of ammo?

Shel
October 14, 2006, 10:00 PM
One of those little Rossi single shots, 3" 7 1/2 shot.

The Deer Hunter
October 14, 2006, 10:03 PM
try shooting a 12 GA 2 3/4" birdshot nect time you at the range and see how the recoil is

wdlsguy
October 14, 2006, 10:06 PM
One of those little Rossi single shots, 3" 7 1/2 shot.
11/16 oz. of shot out of a 5 lb. gun is going to kick a bit.

Rampant_Colt
October 14, 2006, 10:07 PM
It depends on the weight of the shotgun and what your load of choice is. A lightweight single shot 20 ga. with a heavy buckshot load will rattle your teeth! A 20 ga. semi-auto with a light trap/skeet load is comparable to a heavy 3" .410 load from a single shot.

A 20 gauge Remington 870 with slugs or #3 buck would be a great choice for home defense. Recoil, however, might be an issue if you're of small stature.
There are low-recoil 12ga. loads available that aren't that hard kicking. Some type of 12 or 20 gauge autoloader might suit your needs just right.

I know this is off-topic, but a Marlin Model 1894 in .357mag. might be a good alternative.

hqmhqm
October 14, 2006, 10:11 PM
I have to second that remark about .357 marlin lever gun. The recoil from .357 magnum is not at all uncomfortable, and the recoil from 38 specials is comparable to a .22. But for home defense, I think a pump shotgun is a little easier to operate in a hurry, if you don't get very used to shooting the lever action, it might be hard to cock it reliably in a stressful situation while keeping the target on sight.


I got a 870 shotgun in 12 gauge, and the kick from slugs was terrible. I then got the Knoxx recoil reducing stock, and now shooting slugs or 00 buckshot is merely exciting, not excruciating. And I can shoot trap target loads all day with just a t-shirt, no padding needed.

Shel
October 14, 2006, 10:14 PM
Right now my self/home defense is a .380 handgun... I am seriously re-thinking my home defense plan into using a shotgun because

A. I hear they are much better
B. I am probably moving into town very soon and in the unlikely event I would ever have to use the weapon, I don't want overpenetration.
C. I want another gun :evil: .

Rampant_Colt
October 14, 2006, 10:21 PM
A. I hear they are much better
B. I am probably moving into town very soon and in the unlikely event I would ever have to use the weapon, I don't want overpenetration.
C. I want another gun

You quite possibly might be better served with a .357mag revolver loaded with a .38 special load.
There are tons of used ones available for reasonable prices (even in the People Republic of Chicago:p )

Shel
October 14, 2006, 10:24 PM
Out of curiousity, what is the danger range with .38 special? (as far as how far it will travel)

Rampant_Colt
October 14, 2006, 10:29 PM
Out of curiousity, what is the danger range with .38 special? (as far as how far it will travel)

Why? do you plan on missing your target?? :neener:

With 158gr.+P loads from a 4" barrel going approximately 850-900fps, probably not too far. The trajectory is like a rainbow. I'd be more concerned about the bullet passing through a wall or window hitting something you didn't intend on shooting!

Panthera Tigris
October 14, 2006, 10:30 PM
You quite possibly might be better served with a .357mag revolver loaded with a .38 special load.

I beg to differ. I've talked to several LEOs over the past few months about what to use for home defense, and every one of them has told me to forget about handguns and use a shotgun for the home.

wdlsguy
October 14, 2006, 10:32 PM
what is the danger range with .38 special? (as far as how far it will travel)
A mile or so if fired at a 30 degree angle.

Shel
October 14, 2006, 10:33 PM
Naaaa, hope I don't miss. I just read on the .22 box that you should allow a mile and a half behind your target. I was curious how .38 special compared :)

Rampant_Colt
October 14, 2006, 10:46 PM
just read on the .22 box that you should allow a mile and a half behind your target
Typical weasel words written on the box to cover their as*es from liability lawyers and ambulance chasers.

A shotgun is unwieldy to handle inside the confines of an apartment or a small dwelling and can be easier to grab from you by a badguy than a handgun would.


@ Panthera - Yeah, i agree that a SG is better for home defense and has MUCH greater terminal effect than a handgun.

GET BOTH!!:D

eastwood44mag
October 15, 2006, 02:17 PM
Depends on too many factors to give you a short answer.

I hunt with a 20 because it's much less recoil than a 12. That being said, heavy 20 loads can hurt like a mule kick. Don't plan to shoot more than twice, under any circumstances.

Anteater1717
October 15, 2006, 05:36 PM
12 and 20 guages arent bad with a 2 3/4inch 7 1/2shot but hevi loads hurt just hold it tight to your shoulder raly tight and lean a little forward and you will be fine with a 12 and for home deffence you probaly wont shoot more than 1 shot

Dave McCracken
October 15, 2006, 11:08 PM
Shel, if Bright Spirit is close to Central MD, I can show you how to shoot a shotgun like I have maybe 20 present and past members here. How about a Shotgun 101 session?..

Shel
October 17, 2006, 08:26 PM
I have never been to Maryland unfortunately... Unbridled Spirit is they "new-ish" nickname/state slogan for Kentucky.

Dave McCracken
October 17, 2006, 10:23 PM
Oh. Too bad.

Do read the archives, there's a gold mine of info there....

tyesai
October 19, 2006, 06:57 PM
Borrow someones M44 and shoot about 10 rounds through that. Then go back to a shotgun. It will feel like a .22

Alot of recoil is just kind of in your mind. If you haven't shot much than maybe you just need to get out and get used to it a little bit.

My ex-wife was 5'3" and went about 100lbs and she could shoot my remington 870 12 gauge just fine. But she was used to firearms. Don't get me wrong, after 2 boxes of shells she was done and I mean DONE but she would do it and only complain that her shoulder was a little sore the next day.

Mine is a little sore the next though too.

12GA00buck
October 22, 2006, 04:10 AM
Stay away from .410's for self defense; there better than nothing, but a 20 GA with reduced recoil 00 buck will work ALLOT better. If you must have a .410, winchester makes a 3inch factory load with 5 000 pellets, although I imagine the velocity would be pretty dismal. If you plan on doing any hunting a 20 GA, has far more applications. Be sure to get a reasonably heavy gun, maybe 7-1/2 pounds or so, that should tame a 20GA plenty. Also, make sure you have a good stock fit, with a rubber recoil pad. Recoil pads for your shoulder could also help for range time. For home defense, stay away from single shots, go with a pump or a semi auto that feeds reliably. Remeber shot placement above all else, aim for the head/center of upper torso. At home defense ranges, buck shot probably wont spread more than 2-5 inches, so remember, SHOT PLACEMENT,
Happy shooting

wdlsguy
October 22, 2006, 10:36 AM
a 20 GA with reduced recoil 00 buck will work ALLOT better.
I don't think I've seen a commercial 20 gauge load with OO buck. Everything seems to be #3 buck.

If you must have a .410, winchester makes a 3inch factory load with 5 000 pellets, although I imagine the velocity would be pretty dismal.
The 2.5" load has 3 OOO buck at 1300 fps, the 3" load has 5 OOO buck at 1135 fps.

For comparison purposes, the 2.75" 12 gauge load has 8 OOO buck at 1325 fps.

Panthera Tigris
October 22, 2006, 08:19 PM
My dad's a fairly big guy, and he prefers the .410 for home defense to any other gauge.

Oldnamvet
October 22, 2006, 10:20 PM
Recoil is really funny. If I am sitting down at a bench and shooting or standing and shooting at a pattern board, I'll feel the recoil, and how. If I am hunting or shooting clays, I never feel a thing. If you focus on what it is going to feel like, it will kick pretty hard. If you are focussing on a moving target, you won't even notice. Kind of like getting an injection - if you watch the needle go in, you always seem to feel it more than if you look the other way. A long way around to saying that just about anyone who can shoot a .410 can handle a 20 or 12 gauge if there isn't a medical situation and the gun fits.

Shawnee
October 22, 2006, 10:27 PM
Hi Shel....

What part of TenTuckee do you live in? And CONGRATULATIONS on your escape from Illanoise !!!

;)

mnrivrat
October 23, 2006, 12:03 AM
I always find the diversity of answers to this type a question to be very interesting . Hard not to make my own 2 cents worth of comments so here that is :

The reason that little .410 kicked more than expected was that it is very light weight and with 3 inch shells it does have a little extra kick (about as much as you will ever find in a .410 .

It's my opinion that a 20ga. is much better for HD and I personaly choose it over a 12ga. for this purpose. For me it is about the handling and weight. The 20ga. handles more like a carbine . It has plenty of power to get the job done and it has less recoil. OK , it delivers less of a payload than a 12 ga. , but what is wrong with the energy level of 2 X .357 mag. ? #3 buckshot is in a 2&3/4 inch shell is just fine.

In a pump gun you will find the recoil of this load comparable with that .410 you fired. Not soft, but managable. You can use lighter loads for practice and have less recoil. You can also consider a gas operated auto like the youth model Remington 1100 . The auto tames the recoil even more - they are twice the price however.

With all that said, my main go to for HD is a handgun . It is easy to grab and quick to put into action. However, I do have a 20ga. pump gun with short barrel sitting within arms reach . I think it would depend on the circumstances which one I would deploy .

OK - I used up my 2 cents - good luck with your choice, but see if you can shoot the gun (or one like it) before you decide. Also read Pax's web site - great info there to consider.

Panthera Tigris
October 23, 2006, 09:00 PM
My gun shop sold me some 12 gauge home defense loads called:

Brenneke Tactical Home Defense reduced recoil shotgun slug cartridges for smoothbore and rifled barrels. 2.75 size in one ounce loads.

I haven't fired them yet, but I haven't had a chance to fire my shotgun at all since I bought it.

I was told they are very light recoil however, and very effective self defense loads.

Shel
October 24, 2006, 09:33 PM
To answer the question as to my part of KY, I live in Western KY :)

It is going to be a little while before I can afford to buy myelf a shotgun... With Christmas, car tax and license coming up, car insurance, high winter heat bills, this winter is going to be pretty brutal for me :(

I am not a hunter, the shotgun would be used for self defense, and maybe some plinking for fun.

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