Printing, is it legal ?


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armedpolak
October 15, 2006, 11:52 AM
Moving on from my previous post... ufffff

So, Florida 790 devines concealed as "hidden from the ordinary view of another person".

Well, what if i'm printing a bit? Does that break the concealment rule? Is that breaking the law, assuming the pictol is still hidden, just printing a bit on my shirt etc.

Thanks!

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thumper723
October 15, 2006, 12:42 PM
The simpest way is "concealed means concealed".

While I have been told that you will not be ticketed for printing here, it will attract LE and other unwanted attention to yourself.

gregthehand
October 15, 2006, 01:38 PM
If people can look and see that your carrying a pistol, it is not concealed.

MachIVshooter
October 15, 2006, 02:08 PM
Well, what if i'm printing a bit?

What do you mean by printing? With all the crap people carry these days, I wouldn't worry about a small, undefined protrusion in your clothing. But a clear outline is a different story; If John or Jane Doe walking down the street can tell at a glance that you have a gun, it isn't concealed.

Double Naught Spy
October 15, 2006, 02:18 PM
So, Florida 790 devines concealed as "hidden from the ordinary view of another person".

Well, what if i'm printing a bit? Does that break the concealment rule? Is that breaking the law, assuming the pictol is still hidden, just printing a bit on my shirt etc.

Does your "printing a bit" mean a corner of the grip (a bit of the gun) tents part of your shirt? Does it mean that the entire outline of the gun is lightly printed? How much defines you "bit."

When folks start downplaying their transgressions in manners that seem to reduce the size or scope of the infraction in an ambiguous manner ("a bit"), it sounds like they are trying to come up with a justified excuse for the infraction. "Well, it only prints a bit..."

So is "printing a bit" legal? That all depends on whether or not "a bit" is enough to fail the specific criterion noted, "hidden from the ordinary view of another person".

22-rimfire
October 15, 2006, 02:48 PM
Here it is legal to carry unconcealed when you have a handgun permit. So, minor printing is not a big issue. Nobody has ever identified that I was carrying. That is the way it ought to be. I would try to keep the printing to a minimum as concealed is supposed to be concealed. I would not carry a gun in a shirt pocket just because it may be technically covered with fabric.

armedpolak
October 15, 2006, 02:56 PM
I have IWB holster with only the grip sticking outside of the pants. So it could go as a large pager or something. You can't tell it's a gun, just a little bump on the shirt.

yongxingfreesty
October 15, 2006, 03:17 PM
you dont want that to happen. the bad guy will shoot you first. conceal is well

WayneConrad
October 15, 2006, 03:35 PM
Armedpolak asked for our knowledge of Florida law, not our opinions about concealed carry, or the laws in other states. I am going to take a guess that it is Florida case law that can really answer this question. Real experiences from Floridians ("The policeman said I had better hide it better," etc.) would also be very helpful.

JLStorm
October 15, 2006, 03:47 PM
I have been carrying co ncealed for quite a while. I am also able to open carry due to some of my jobs which require that I am armed. However, I always carry concealed so others don't know that I am carrying or at least dont know where I am carrying. That being said, I have never had anyone realize (or at least mention it to me) I was carrying weather it is OOB, IWB, or in a shoulder holster. Even if there is a strong wind gust and my jacket blows a little, and the holster or butt of the gun is visible if you are looking straight at it. The fact is, that people never think they see a gun. The vast marjority just assumes that buldge or dark object is a cell phone, a pager, a multitool, or whatever else people carry these days. Unless you are trying to get people to notice that you are carrying (which I am sure you are not) I really wouldnt worry about it.

Furthermore, if you are somewhat well dressed and clean shaven and someone happens to see the print or the butt of a gun (even if you are open carrying) they generally assume that you are supposed to have the weapon, remember, most people are sheep and very stereotypic and dont yell for help if there is a fire because they assume someone already alerted the authorities. This is what you a dealing with, not some crackshot team of criminal investigators :rolleyes:

geekWithA.45
October 15, 2006, 04:02 PM
Printing is protected by the First Amendment. :neener:

gunsmith
October 15, 2006, 06:19 PM
but can't cite anything.

last summer I printed all the time, t shirt barely over the grip.
no one noticed and being that I live in northern NV I could care less that they did.
If someone doesn't like it, they can move to PRK.

MechAg94
October 15, 2006, 11:12 PM
Just don't print money. :D

Robert J McElwain
October 16, 2006, 01:10 PM
Okay. What if a friend casually asks if I'm carrying? Does acknowledgement make it no longer concealed?

Bob

DRMMR02
October 16, 2006, 01:39 PM
In Michigan, even wearing it on your hip, but with a coat even partially covering it up counts as concealed. If you are open-carrying, and put on a coat or poncho to protect it from the rain, you need a CPL.

So at least in MI, it needs to be completely visible at all times, or it's concealed.

Spreadfire Arms
October 16, 2006, 01:44 PM
in Texas, if you tell someone you are carrying, then you are no longer carrying "concealed" per Texas DPS, who happens to be the licensing authority for all CHL's in Texas.

they used this example in my instructor's class, which was a real occurrence:

two people were in a parking lot arguing over something. one of them was a CHL holder. the second party saw a bulge under the CHL holder's shirt and asked him if he was carrying a gun. CHL holder said he was, but never threatened to use it, and did not otherwise expose it.

DPS Trooper arrived at the scene. DPS Trooper arrested the CHL holder for failing to conceal his firearm (Unlawful Carry of Weapon by CHL Holder) since he told the other party that he had a firearm.

DPS supported the Trooper. i don't know what happened as far as the DA (if it was filed) or if he was acquitted.

just food for thought. i don't exactly agree with it but i guess the point they are trying to make is that concealed means nobody knows you have it.

Robert J McElwain
October 16, 2006, 02:28 PM
in Texas, if you tell someone you are carrying, then you are no longer carrying "concealed" per Texas DPS, who happens to be the licensing authority for all CHL's in Texas..............

That's interesting. So the law is "don't ask, don't tell". I E the law obligates one to lie about whether you're carrying. In a way, that makes sense, but I guess the best thing is to avoid idiots that might ask. OTOH, there are a few anti-gun acquaintances that I'll get to mess with their minds with that one.:D

Bob

Carl N. Brown
October 16, 2006, 02:43 PM
I have a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit.
Concealed or open carry permit.
Preferably concealed should mean concealed to
avoid upsetting delicate souls,
and open should mean fully in view in a holster,
but "printing" or showing the outline of gun
under clothing should not be a legal problem.

JLStorm
October 16, 2006, 06:42 PM
I always think of it as more of a safety issue. My reasoning is I don't wear a thumb break and I do not use any level retention holster for my concealed rigs. So, mentioning I have a wepaon gives away my advantage of concealment.

Now, of course over time many of your family members and your very close friends may find out that you carry (this is up to you), but even my family and friends generally don't know when or where I carry. I do this because I know they are always looking, and if they cant see the weapon on me, I am fairly confident that no one else can either.

The one exception to this rule is if I am in someone elses house and they ask me if I am carrying a weapon. Because it is private property, I feel obligated to tell the truth. If they would prefer that I not have a weapon, than my gun and I will be leaving, its not one or the other. I have found that over time people have learned simply not to ask... ;)

mike101
October 16, 2006, 07:58 PM
Check out Palehorseholsters.com. They make a Back Pocket Holster that has an anti-print panel. It looks like you're carrying a PDA, or a big wallet. They are beautifully made, also, as are all of Ron Graham's holsters. I have one for a NAA Mini.

If they don't have your gun on the list for this holster, send them an e-mail. I'm sure they would be happy to make one for you.

They are great people to deal with, too! :)

JLStorm
October 16, 2006, 09:19 PM
I am not sure if this has been mentioned before in this thread, but another thing worth mentioning is that you will ALWAYS thunk you are printing more than anyone else, simply because you are only focusing your attention on the area where your weapon is located.

Vern Humphrey
October 16, 2006, 09:29 PM
Years ago my wife, youngest daughter and I went to Disney World. I got a Florida non-resident permit. I was carrying my .45 in a fanny pack, and was worried it would be conspicuous.

When we got there, everyone had fanny packs. I swear to God, there was one big fat broad who had a footlocker strapped to her enormous belly. She must have had a howitzer in there.:what:

glennv
October 16, 2006, 09:39 PM
That's why I like states with open carry laws. I conceal mine but if it does print there is no way I could be charged with a crime. I think they call it menacing in MA.

FTF
October 16, 2006, 09:49 PM
My state allows open carry with a permit.

I have been trying to convince myself for months now that if my pistol prints at all, I will immediately have the cops called on me and be arrested on the spot. Truth is... people don't notice. Even if someone happens to look directly at your waist as you bend over and sees the distinct outline of a pistol butt or even the bottom of a holster... odds are that they will turn away immediately because it looks gay to stare, or they will just assume its some of the other crap that people all carry around nowadays.

As to your question, legal or not... I guess it really depends where you live. Here, it doesn't matter one way or the other.. if I print and someone notices, I'll just say "thanks" and walk away or tuck my shirt in and go open and still be in the clear. States with open carry provisions really make life easier. If you're carrying in a questionable area as far as the law goes, or your state doesn't have open carry... then I would recommend taking steps to avoid it as if it WAS the law... just to be safe.

FL doesn't have open carry with or w/o a license... so take your chances. I would also venture to say, that if you ever were taken to court, that 12 people could pretty much understand if you took reasonable steps to conceal your weapon. I dunno. Be safe. Don't trust internet people to tell you the end all de facto law... ask a lawyer or read the statutes line by line yourself.

Optical Serenity
October 16, 2006, 11:41 PM
When we got there, everyone had fanny packs. I swear to God, there was one big fat broad who had a footlocker strapped to her enormous belly. She must have had a howitzer in there

:neener: :D I love it, by far the funniest thing I've read all day!

Sean Dempsey
October 17, 2006, 12:38 AM
odds are that they will turn away immediately because it looks gay to stare


God forbid someone appear gay. Gay is a bad thing.

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