Kel-tec P11 sights option.


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jon_in_wv
October 15, 2006, 03:05 PM
I have been frustrated recently in the lack aftermarket support to find some better sights for my P11 so I decided, in true Keltec fashion, to attempt to improve them myself. The original sights on the P11 are not very well defined and the rear sight notch is narrow. I usually like a wide rear notch that allows me to have a clear view of the front sight. I know several people advocate point shooting but I really prefer using my sights and I am quite fast with the sights with most of my other guns. After experimenting with a few options I think I have come up with something that works really well, for me anyways. I removed the rear sight completely and painted a simple white line down the back of the rear of the slide. You simply put the dot from the front sight on top of the line, like an "i" and your on the money. I wasn't sure how accurate an arrangement this would be but a range session resulted in the best groups I've shot with this gun yet! I was quite surprised! I think the clear view of the front sight helps me track the front sight and modulate my trigger pull better. The arrangement is also very fast, and visible in low light which is important because winter is coming and most of my CCW will be after dusk. My KT has really surpised me and has become a serious carry gun. I've attached pics of my new sighting arrangement.

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Azrael256
October 15, 2006, 03:16 PM
Looks like a homebrew version of the straight-eight sight. Supposedly the vertically stacking sights are quicker than the more traditional three-dot system. I haven't tried a vertical system, but clearly it's working for you.

Since you're in WV, I guess we'll classify this as "yankee ingenuity."

pocketgun
October 15, 2006, 04:12 PM
Good idea jon. I llike the over/under style on the 1G P-3AT.

jon_in_wv
October 15, 2006, 04:54 PM
Its not really my idea. I really like the Vanstavernhagen (spelling?) style sights on the Sigs or the express sights from Ashley. Getting rid of the rear sight completely really presents a large, unobstructed sight picture too. I've seen others get rid of the rear sight but I worried about losing accuracy. The line really seems to help out with that. I find three dot sights a little too busy also. I think the simpler the sight picture the better. I'm sure my modification is not for everyone but its certainly worth a try.

pocketgun
October 15, 2006, 06:15 PM
I like the sights on my P-11 (and P-40), but no design is perfect for everyone. Good for you to take the initiative to make it suit your needs.

Have you thought about grinding down the old rear sight and using it as a spacer just to fill the dovetail cut in the slide?

MCgunner
October 15, 2006, 06:49 PM
Kel Tec offers tritium sights I've often though would be nice, if a little pricy. I can think of a lot more scenarios where I'm going to be having to shoot in low light situations. Guess that's a good reason for the rail on the PF9, a small, compact laser.

pocketgun
October 15, 2006, 08:12 PM
I have been meaning to send in my P-40 for the night sights, but have never gotten around to it. $80 installed isn't bad IMO.

jon_in_wv
October 16, 2006, 08:21 PM
The best thing about my mod is that it was FREE. I swiped a bottle of white nailpolish from my step daughter and I was in business. I thought about the night sights but I've decided to stick with my new arrangement. It is surprisingly accurate and fast to use. I wish I could convert my other guns to this arrangement.

bud45
October 16, 2006, 10:01 PM
endler78, the tritium sights ARE optional night sights....

conwic
October 16, 2006, 11:01 PM
Jon, clever idea. Very practical.

FWIW, You mentioned that you like Ashley sights. While Ashley makes a set of sights for the P-11, they are very expensive, particularly since installation requires milling a slot in the slide for the front sight base. ( Rear sight slips in.) I sprung for a big dot set from Ashley for my P-11 about 9 years ago. Eventually I shoot my P-11 to destruction, cracking the slide. While Kel-Tec replaced the slide under warrenty, they couldn't do anything about the Ashley sights. Not wanting to spring for another expensive installation and tired of that big front sight anyway, I experimented a bit and found that, at least on my P-11, I could match my old Ashley P-11 rear sight ( lowest version ) with the highest front sight in the Kel Tec sight kit to creat my own set of express sights. Easy to install, a fraction of the price for a real set of Ashley sights, very fast on target, and shoots to POA out to 20 yards if you keep the front sight dot buried in the vee. If you're ever looking for a project, you might try that.

Regards-conwic

pocketgun
October 17, 2006, 12:30 AM
kel-tec make reliable decent guns..but lack of stainless and optional night sights suck

They used to make a stainless steel P-11 too, I have one. In fact, I might know a guy (not me) who is selling his. Here is a pic of mine:

P-11 SS (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/pocketgun/THR/Pics/IMG_0370.jpg)

edited to add: And NO it is not a hard chrome model - I know the difference.

jon_in_wv
October 18, 2006, 07:39 PM
I think I'm done experimenting with my KT for now. I'm going to take a couple more range sessions and see just how accurately I can shoot with my new sights. I already shoot better groups with it so I think I'm going to leave it like it is. It's a really fast, simple sight. I would love to add a night sight up front and maybe a night sight in the back of the slide near the top of the line. That would be sweet.

mdog
October 21, 2006, 01:09 AM
I have had trouble with the three dot sight since I bought my P11. I was going to buy a laser until I saw this thead. Your simple solution seemed to work great for me. I was able to acquire my target much faster.

However when I shoot, I am at least 12 inches low at 7 yards. I have to put a big gap in between the front dot and the painted bar in the back to hit my POA. You seem to be able to sight the dot touching the bar. I need to find a way to raise the painted bar on the back of the slide without causing the pistol to snag when I draw it. Any suggestions?

jon_in_wv
October 21, 2006, 10:14 AM
Actually I sight the dot just above the bar. I was a litte low when I first shot it because I did like you did. I just go with the "i" sight picture with a small gap, literally like and "i". I may try one of the lower front sights on it or maybe adding a different colored line horizontially under the front dot but I want to keep the sight picture as simple as possible. It's not a perfect solution but it seems to work pretty well for me.

My gun wasn't quite that low either. I shot about four inches low at 7 yards until I adjust my sight picture. Perhaps your gun has a high front sight. KT sell three different height front sights.

mdog
October 21, 2006, 04:28 PM
I just have the factory front sight. Just looking at it, I believe the white dot is as low as it can go. It is just off the slide.

Did you put anything in the slot where the rear sight was? To me this would be a potential snag point.

I could file down the two rear dots to make the entire rear sight flat then extend the painted white bar higher. Don't want to mess up the original rear sight. Wonder what I could use to fabricate a tight fitting "flat" rear sight.

I really love your idea. You don't know how much faster I can acquire the target now. Before I would see the two rear dots but could not find the front dot. I would wiggle the barrel around until I found the front dot. Took too much time. My solution was to draw and aim high then slowly bring the front dot down inbetween the two rear dots. Still took too much time.

Mdog

jon_in_wv
October 22, 2006, 09:05 PM
I didn't do anything with the dovetail. You would really have to try to snag something on just the dovetail.
I just removed the rear sight and painted a vertical line on the back of the slide. Thats it.

chris in va
October 22, 2006, 11:06 PM
I think Jon has got a hold of the P11 concept. It's not a 'sight' gun. You point...and shoot. Like a snubby.

Wesker
October 22, 2006, 11:11 PM
Patent the idea quickly and you'll be the first to offer the aftermarket sights options for this gun that you couldn't find!

Oh, can I get a 30/70 cut for the idea :D

jeepmor
October 23, 2006, 04:17 AM
Patent the idea quickly and you'll be the first to offer the aftermarket sights options for this gun that you couldn't find!


Yes, paint and tape in a kit, novel. Just might work.

jon_in_wv
October 24, 2006, 07:39 AM
:rolleyes:

70% seems a little high Wesker, would you settle for 60?

I have always been a shrewd negotiator!

p11shoot3r
June 3, 2009, 03:57 PM
I've had the same problem with my P11. I think i may try that. Thanks for the input. I hope it works the same for me.

MikePaiN
June 3, 2009, 04:02 PM
jon....Did you post this on KTOG yet?
They'd love to see your sights

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

jon_in_wv
July 10, 2009, 11:40 AM
No, about two years ago I suggested the idea producing aftermarket sights for the KTs and the administrator thought I was so stupid he kicked me off BOTH of the KelTec forums. They said that KTs are point and shoot guns or close range guns and better sights is just a stupid idea. The PF-9 oddly enough does have better sights than the P-11. Kt must have thought better sights were a good enough idea.

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