guns as a religion


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Hoppy590
October 15, 2006, 11:41 PM
i got this idea today walking to work

all kinds of wackos get made up religions officially recognized, and this results in claiming anything as "religious"
Examples
"Church of body modifications" people claim getting fired or prohibited from a job due to having ridiculous piercing is a violation of anti discrimination laws

some people have claimed that daggers and knives are under their religion and get to carry them in weird places ( one story i heard about in a school)

now another idea ( at least and urban legend) is that if 500 people write in a religion in the IRS forms, it has to be recognized as a legit religion

under these ideas couldn’t we make a "church of the second A" or "Church of self sufficiency/ self defense" and either try to force a national CCW, in a rather underhanded approach
or more realistically
Force companies to become too afraid to try to post no CCW signs, afraid that some one might sue them for discrimination

not a real serious post. just some thing i thought of

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SoCalShooter
October 15, 2006, 11:43 PM
heheh its America buddy thats what makes us great, you want your own religion you can have it. How about this one? "Church of Firearms" or "Church of the 7day shooters"

Glockfan.45
October 15, 2006, 11:46 PM
The gospel according to John M Browning :D .

Robert Hairless
October 16, 2006, 12:06 AM
now another idea ( at least and urban legend) is that if 500 people write in a religion in the IRS forms, it has to be recognized as a legit religion

And I'd bet that those 499 other people would be good company when all of you go away for income tax fraud and conspiracy to commit fraud.

But I'd bet that you could get a heck of a great group discount on a custom-made T shirt that said something like "I'm doing 10-20 and all I got was this lousy T-shirt." :)

hankdatank1362
October 16, 2006, 12:10 AM
And on the eighth day, He created the Colt Single Action Army. And it was good.

What a question to pose. And today's the Sabbath, of all days!:evil:

The rebuttal from the general sheeple will be "Yeah... well so-and-so can't kill anybody with his piercings." (Even though I've seen some dangerous lookig s**t sticking out of some people.)

Hell, I'll sign your form. The Methodist Church was a little boring for my tastes, anyways!

george29
October 16, 2006, 12:20 AM
"Joshua's Witnesses"...............count me in too.

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

1) "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
2) "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,"
3) "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;"
4) "Remember the Sabbath day and Second Ammendment, to keep it holy."
5) "Honor thy father and thy mother, and thy Constitution".
6) "Thou shalt not MURDER. Killing in self-defense is fine if necessary."
7) "Thou shalt not commit adultery, or thy may be shot."
8) "Thou shalt not steal, or thy may be shot."
9) "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
10) "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's firearms,.....nor anything that is thy neighbor's including his house.

eastwood44mag
October 16, 2006, 12:22 AM
Just so long as you don't try to claim tax exempt status, I think you could avoid TE charges.

SoCalShooter
October 16, 2006, 12:25 AM
"Joshua's Witnesses"...............count me in too.

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

1) "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
2) "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,"
3) "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;"
4) "Remember the Sabbath day and Second Ammendment, to keep it holy."
5) "Honor thy father and thy mother, and thy Constitution".
6) "Thou shalt not MURDER. Killing in self-defense is fine if necessary."
7) "Thou shalt not commit adultery, or thy may be shot."
8) "Thou shalt not steal, or thy may be shot."
9) "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
10) "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's firearms,.....nor anything that is thy neighbor's including his house.

When you got down to #'s 3 and 4 I got a small problem there. I am atheist and those to just dont work for me...is it possible we could keep it to

3. "Thou shalt not take your guns name in vain"
4. " Remember the Second Ammendment and keep it holy"

:cool:


*
Also if we are gonna be a religion and a non-profit organization I want tax exemptions here!!!

WeedWhacker
October 16, 2006, 12:30 AM
Just remember what happened (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege) to the last religious bunch which allegedly kept some efficient tools around their property...

rustymaggot
October 16, 2006, 12:30 AM
i can picture it now, "my religion requires me to carry a firearm at all times"

im so in for this one. call it the "church of the second" or somthing so it sounds ambiguous. that way when people ask us about it we can explain it the way we want and not frighten them away with the name alone. i think this s a very good idea and worth working on.

SoCalShooter
October 16, 2006, 12:32 AM
Please...lets not get started with what did or did not happen to make waco go so very wrong.

Zundfolge
October 16, 2006, 12:45 AM
Its been tried with drugs and "deviant" sexual practices and hasn't worked for them so I doubt we'd have any luck with a "Gun Church"

10-Ring
October 16, 2006, 12:48 AM
:rolleyes: :scrutiny:

SomeKid
October 16, 2006, 12:50 AM
Just an aside, Christianity as current demands its followers be armed. The government still doesn't care. Remember, rights only apply when the government wants them to.

Josh Aston
October 16, 2006, 12:54 AM
"Joshua's Witnesses"...............count me in too.

Works for me. Does this mean I get to be a lesser prophet? John Moses Browning being the most high prophet of course. :D

Car Knocker
October 16, 2006, 01:10 AM
I think the idea has merit. I don't believe there is any law that defines exactly what precepts a church must be founded under. If the structure of the church is carefully crafted, it would certainly meet the IRS requirements as a tax-exempt organization. It's certainly a viable concept if properly planned.

Its been tried with drugs and "deviant" sexual practices and hasn't worked for them so I doubt we'd have any luck with a "Gun Church"

The Native American Church legally uses peyote in its rituals. During Prohibition, the Catholic Church legally used wine in its services. Challenges to the anti-polygany prohibitions based on religious grounds are currently progressing to the USSC.

Zundfolge
October 16, 2006, 01:22 AM
Car Knocker, those are all religions that pre-date the laws they are trying to get around.

I was referring to various attempts to get marijuana classified as a sacrament in various new religions and aside from polygamists there are also pedophiles that have tried to get their activities "justified" by claiming it as part of a new religion.


The only religion I know of that requires its members to be armed is Sikhism (http://www.sikhs.org/) ... but thats with a certain type of knife which is mostly symbolic (now if one could just unearth a "Sikh New Testament" that required the carrying of firearms instead of a knife we might be on to something ;) ).

Josh Aston
October 16, 2006, 01:32 AM
Jesus required his followers to be armed with swords.

White Horseradish
October 16, 2006, 01:43 AM
As translated from the original ancient manuscripts by Fr. Frog.
© copyright 2002 by John C. Schaefer

1 In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, "Thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain."

2 "And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm."

3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. a

6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men, the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

8 And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did appear to function.

9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and didst proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation b by the followers of John.

a Several old manuscripts add the following text. "And they [also rendered as "these men"] didst chamber it for cartridges who's calibers startith with numbers less than the Holy Number 4. And lo the Lord did cause great grief amongst these men when their enemies who were struck in battle with these lesser numbers didst not fall but did continue to cause great harm."

b or Hell

gwine
October 16, 2006, 02:02 AM
Well, as I have read before, we are all worshipers. The question is what are we going to make our god?

What a question to pose. And today's the Sabbath, of all days!
Today is the Lord's Day. Yesterday was the Sabbath.

But I realize this is all an amusing diversion so I will take it in the spirit in which it is intended. ;)

Car Knocker
October 16, 2006, 02:11 AM
Zundfolge,

The Native American Church wasn't incorporated until 1918. The Act allowing the Church to legally use peyote was passed in 1994. Both relatively recent. The polygamy challenge is from a member of a church that was founded in 1935. It'll be interesting to watch.

JLStorm
October 16, 2006, 02:14 AM
Guns are a way of life and a religion. I told my wife that nothing including her or my family would ever come between me and my guns, the only thing that I can think of which people are so attached to IS religion ;)

DRMMR02
October 16, 2006, 02:20 AM
I'm fine with my current religion.

Also, the "500 people can make a religion" thing is indeed a myth.

Manedwolf
October 16, 2006, 09:34 AM
Someone already got to it...that I thought that the Disciples of JMB already were a religion. :evil:

Sistema1927
October 16, 2006, 10:44 AM
now another idea ( at least and urban legend) is that if 500 people write in a religion in the IRS forms, it has to be recognized as a legit religion

BS.

Even if you claim itemized deductions including donations to religious organizations on Schedule A you still don't put in the name of the organization, just the amount donated. If you are audited you would need proof that it went to a qualifying organization, but not before that time. Somebody want to tell me where you put religious affiliation on any IRS form?

WayneConrad
October 16, 2006, 11:32 AM
Ok, but I don't think you get to be tax exempt.

From The Scientology Story (Los Angeles Times series) (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/la90/la90-2b.html) :

In the United States, it is easy to become a church, no matter how unconventional -- you just say it is so. The hard part may come in keeping tax-exempt status, as Scientology has learned.

The U.S. government is constitutionally barred from determining what is and what is not a religion. But, under the law, there is no guaranteed right to tax exemption. The IRS can make a church pay taxes if it fails to meet criteria established by the agency.

A tax-exempt religion may not, for example, operate primarily for business purposes, commit crimes, engage in partisan politics or enrich private individuals. It should, among other things, have a formal doctrine, ordained ministers, religious services, sincerely held beliefs and an established place of worship.

(emphasis mine). It seems to me that the moment you carry somewhere prohibited by law because your church requires you to, the IRS will decline your church's tax exempt status.

And it's hard to get shooters together to go shooting! Organized services would be a heck of a stretch.

Glockfan.45
October 16, 2006, 12:12 PM
White Horseradish that was great :D . If I didnt think it would get me banned I would use that post as my sig line.

Hoppy590
October 16, 2006, 12:57 PM
BS.

Even if you claim itemized deductions including donations to religious organizations on Schedule A you still don't put in the name of the organization, just the amount donated. If you are audited you would need proof that it went to a qualifying organization, but not before that time. Somebody want to tell me where you put religious affiliation on any IRS form?

chill dude. its just an urban legend. Snopes.com lists it as a myth and says the austrailian census. http://www.snopes.com/religion/jedi.htm

i just thought it was a neat little idea. and most of the people here took it and ran with it haha. i love the JMB stuff

The_Antibubba
October 16, 2006, 05:26 PM
Come now, did you really think it was a coincidence that the beginning of Everything is called "The Big Bang"? :p

'The Lord is my sheepdog, I shall not want...'
'Mauser my God to thee.'

I already see schisms approaching, though: The Nine Millimeterists denouncing the Forty Five ACPistolpalians; The Eastern Bloc Orthodoxy breaking away from the Holy Browning Empire; and the endless quarrels about the "strong hand/weak hand" arguments of the Instinctives as going directly against the traditional stance of The Weavers"...

But I have faith we will all join together, in the Garand scheme of things.

I could go on and on (but for your sake, I won't).




:D

Standing Wolf
October 16, 2006, 08:07 PM
Well, actually, now that I stop to think about it, I'll have to admit I've been encouraging people to carry on a daily basis with positively evangelical fervor.

ArmedBear
October 16, 2006, 08:09 PM
Sundays at the Trap range here are referred to as "The Church of the Broken Bird."

That should keep us out of Hell. Or something.

sm
October 16, 2006, 08:34 PM
It has been said whatever one focuses their energies, thoughts, and behaviors the most on - it their "religion". This is in the context of the individual, and not as a member of a "body" per se'.

Look at how many folks are a member of an organized group, - still have other interests, and by definition these other "interests" are more of a "religion" than the organized affliations.

Guns, overeating, jobs, drinking, sex, porn, volunteer work, quilting bees, crossword puzzles, ...etc., as some focus so much, and expend energy, thought and behave such - anything can become one's "religion" - and they not even know it.

Classic example is the workaholic. No time for wife, kids, family...just their lives center around work.

James T Thomas
October 16, 2006, 08:54 PM
If our government is ever permitted to reinterpret or annul the Second Amendment to the Constitution, then I doubt if the First Amendment will remain.

expvideo
October 16, 2006, 09:33 PM
Let's see... A religion that requires one to be armed... How about Christianity?

"...and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
-Jesus Christ
Luke 22:36

That's pretty clear to me!

michaelbane
October 16, 2006, 10:26 PM
Actually, there is a group trying to get a Roman Catholic Saint recognized as "Patron Saint of Handgunners".

Here is their website: http://www.gunsaint.com/

george29
October 17, 2006, 02:15 AM
The Church of the Second Denominations:

Jewish Church members must carry an Uzi/Galil/Jericho

Eastern Bloc church members must carry CZ/AK/SKS/Makarov

Arab members C-4 and empty pouches and please warn us a few days in advance.

Atheists should come to church with something to bite on as the rest of us mention God as creator, they may carry as they please.

Members "who just want to get along" should carry Glocks.

Members "who just can't get over it" Single Action 6 Shooters in 45 or 44 only.

Members who are shell shocked....1911

Anyone who favored the switch from M-1911A1 to M9, your conversion was a mistake.

Panthera Tigris
October 17, 2006, 02:52 AM
Can I become a preacher for whichever one we decide to setup so I won't ever have to work for a living again? :evil:

The-Fly
October 17, 2006, 04:17 AM
Guns as a religion...hmmm, I think I'll join the Cult of the Glock :evil: We'll go around door to door converting 1911 heathens :neener:

expvideo
October 17, 2006, 04:47 AM
Well if the cult of glock converts 1911 heathens, Where do we Sig guys fit in? We don't worship a relic OR a toy.

*runs from the wrath of both the 1911 god AND the Glock god*

Glockfan.45
October 17, 2006, 09:11 AM
Guns as a religion...hmmm, I think I'll join the Cult of the Glock We'll go around door to door converting 1911 heathens


:banghead: Why does the Glock VS 1911 debate always have to rear its ugly head? I own both and they live in perfect harmony.

Manedwolf
October 17, 2006, 09:54 AM
Guns as a religion...hmmm, I think I'll join the Cult of the Glock We'll go around door to door converting 1911 heathens

Door to door with Glocks? Like..tupperwale salespeople? :D :evil:

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