OK you Makorav guys...


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Marshall
October 16, 2006, 05:42 PM
......I go into one of my local dealers today and see a beautiful Makorav that has the following markings..........

BV XXXX 62

:y Yes, two "dots" and "y" by the grip.

x100 I believe, very small in a circle, by the front top of the trigger guard.

And the on the front strap it has, what I believe to be something from the importer, that had a mans name (don't remember it) with some other makings and a 1661 or a 166.

This gun has no bluing loss at all on the muzzle, slide or frame. I doubt it has ever been carried. It does not say "police" anywhere on the gun and has the wood looking grips with a star. Comes with two mags that don't have any scratches on them, the holster and cleaning rod.

Can anyone tell me anything about this gun? I imagine it was made in '62?

Thank you!

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tracer
October 16, 2006, 05:55 PM
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3

kentucky_smith
October 16, 2006, 05:55 PM
circle 10 means it's a Bulgarian.

try: www.makarov.com for more info

berettaman
October 16, 2006, 06:35 PM
:y should be East German. 1962 was a very prolific year for the EG maks.Lots and lots out there.Great guns too. EG's are probably considered the best of the Makarovs,you know those germans and their obsessive need to engineer things! :evil:

Marshall
October 16, 2006, 06:46 PM
I was told it was East German. Looking at the pictures of the EG Maks on Mak.com, some have the same BV XXXX and the 62 or 63 marked on them. I also see the x100 in a circle, whatever that means?

Wish I could remember the importers name.

Marshall
October 16, 2006, 06:51 PM
I called and got the info off of the front strap.

It says:

Ernst Thaelmann
IACO MOD ISSUE GERMANY MM1661

Does that mean anything to anyone?


Thanks for the links too.

berettaman
October 16, 2006, 07:05 PM
There's a story behind Ernest but I don't really remember it too much.He was the guy in Germany in charge of pistols or something for the EG govt.
Collectors put a few more dollars on the price for the Ernest Thaelmann stamped guns.

Marshall
October 16, 2006, 07:09 PM
Thank you Berettaman. I google the name and read about him, you're right, he was a real commie. LOL Sounds like one to buy.

rudolf
October 16, 2006, 09:04 PM
Ernst Thälmann was the head of the German communist party when Hitler came to power. He was jailed and later sent to the Buchenwald concentration camp where he was killed.

East Germany named many places "Ernst Thälmann", including the former Gustloff Werke in Suhl. And that is where your Makarov was made.

What makes me wonder is the "Issue Germany", as German companies usually write German on their products. I would check if this isn't a later 'value enhancement'.

Marshall
October 16, 2006, 09:27 PM
Thank you.

I would imagine, guess, that it was put there by the importer International Arms Company (IACO) since it is marked with their initials on the front strap in the same place as the "Ernst Thaelmann" and "MOD GERMANY MM1661" marking. Unless they are marked before they are imported?

alamo
October 16, 2006, 10:26 PM
It sure sounds like an EG. The BV code matches the 1962 production date.

But the x100 in a circle is confusing. Are sure is it not a "10" in the circle? If so, perhaps it is a mismatched Bulgarian frame with an E. German slide. The serial number on the slide and frame of EG Maks should match. Do they?

Also check out this link:

http://www.makarov.com/makfaq.html

See the circle 10 marking here:

http://www.makarov.com/graphics/markings.jpg

Optical Serenity
October 16, 2006, 10:35 PM
All this makarov talk makes me want another mak!

alamo
October 16, 2006, 10:40 PM
Here's your Ernest Thaelmann stamp:

http://www.makarov.com/graphics/thaelman.jpg

Teakwood
October 16, 2006, 10:42 PM
The marking is not "x100."
It is "K100" and it is an East German inspector mark.

The pistol you describe is East German milsurp made in 1962. The name markings were added by the importer, Intenational Arms. The Ernst Thaelman factory in Suhl is where all the EG Makarovs were made. After re-unification, the factory was bought out by Simson and was the source of the Simson-Suhl Makarovs.

alamo
October 16, 2006, 10:47 PM
The "K100" should be inside a rectangle vs. a circle.

Marshall
October 16, 2006, 11:00 PM
You guys are sharp, you nailed it. That's it exactly.

From all I have read, it sounds like a good specimen especially considering the shape it's in. And, the EG guns seem to be the ones to have.

I am sure you all are right on the K100 vs the X and square vs the circle. My eyes are getting to where I can't make out crap close up. :scrutiny:

I appreciate the links and info! :)

alamo
October 16, 2006, 11:17 PM
My eyes are getting to where I can't make out crap close up.


Break down and get some reading glasses like I did next time you're at Walgreens or other Rx store. Actually my wife bought them and I use them all the time now.

Marshall
October 16, 2006, 11:41 PM
LOL,

I got some about a year ago but they're always in my breifcase. I use them at work and home but don't ever take them in with me anywhere.

kirkcdl
October 17, 2006, 11:42 AM
Well,how much was the dealer asking?

Marshall
October 17, 2006, 01:54 PM
He was asking $350.00. I bought it this morning. Wanamaker's Gun and Knife Show is this weekend in Tulsa and he's going to have a booth. He would have sold it for asking price pretty quickly. Finding an EG around here is pretty tough, much less in that condition. I'll post some pics once I have shot it, cleaned it, photographed it and have something to say about it. :)

Again, thanks for the help. :)

denfoote
October 17, 2006, 04:07 PM
Welcome to the Makarov collective, Comrade!!

OldBillThundercheif
October 17, 2006, 04:27 PM
$350 is flat-out too much.

I was able to pick up a rooskie "IJ-70" Mak w/ 4 extra mags, holster and rod for $200 OTD the other day. I know that is an insane deal, but that fact does not make $350 seem any more tolerable.

Time to haggle.

Marshall
October 17, 2006, 05:25 PM
I don't remember saying I paid $350.00, I was asked the asking price. Now, for what I did pay, which wasn't much less, I have the nice gun and not someone else. I would rather have this gun, than buy one for a hundred less, and have a worn blued finish that I don't admire. I would rather the wear be mine.

Mak.com has EG Mak's for $350.00 plus shipping and transfer fees that are all worn and scratched. You're right, I wouldn't pay that for them.

Denfoote, thanks for the welcome. :)

Teakwood
October 17, 2006, 06:34 PM
Marshall
$350 is indeed about the market price for an EG Makarov in excellent condition.
OldBillThundercheif does not seem to understand the difference between an IJ70 (bottom of the Makarov barrel) and a fine East German Makarov.

OldBillThundercheif
October 17, 2006, 07:30 PM
I have plenty of other maks and have never paid more than $230 for one.

I did not mean to imply that you paid $350, just that the asking price was a little steep.

My IJ-70 shoots like a dream and was brand new with an immaculate finish. Only my E.German groups better, but I like the 70s trigger. Give and take... they are all great.

berettaman
October 18, 2006, 12:01 AM
Going to the Big Show myself this weekend. Maybe I'll see you there!(yea,right,gotta love 11 acers of tables on two levels) :evil:

Bluehawk
October 18, 2006, 09:24 AM
an IJ70 (bottom of the Makarov barrel)

Now why exactly do you feel it earns that title??
I have an early Russian import from B-West with hard chromed lower and blued upper that is rugged, reliable and accurate...I dont consider those traits to be bottom of the barrel!
Seems to me your evaluation is pretty bias for a pistol made by its original country of origin at a state arsenal for the military and commercial market that served its military quite faithfully for many years...don't you think??
Not to mention it was good enough for Germany, Bulgaria and China to copy...I bet they didn't think it was bottom of the barrel.

Teakwood
October 18, 2006, 08:16 PM
Bluehawk
The IJ70s were produced for the commercial market after the fall of the USSR and do not even come close to the fit and finish of the Russian milsurp Makarovs.

I am not basing this on a bias, but direct observation. I have 20 Makarovs, including 7 IJ70s (3 hi-caps, plus 4x 8-rounders). Three of the IJ70s were brand new, and the others were little used. In any event, a simple comparison of the metal surface finish, blueing and internnal fit on any of them to any of the milsurp Makarovs from any country makes it clear that the care taken in producing the military models is missing from the IJ70s.
Also, when compares the IJ70s to the Arsenal and Miltex Bulgarians the difference is glaring.

I am sorry if you are offended, but I stand by my judgement.
The IJ70s are about the bottom of the barrel in fit and finish.

That being said, they are just as accurate and reliable as any other Makarov. That part is is hard to lose.

OldBillThundercheif
October 19, 2006, 08:52 PM
That's a lot of Russian steel!

And here I thought I was a nerd for rooskie lead-launchers...

A tip o' the hat to your fine collection :)

Moonclip
October 20, 2006, 03:00 AM
$350 is about the going rate for such a gun though I personally would not have done it. $200 for an IJ70, you got taken man, I only paid about $100 for one 4 years ago:) Chinese Makarovs also command asking prices consistant with East German ones.

gbelleh
October 20, 2006, 08:36 AM
I've never even seen a Chinese Mak for sale. $350 seems to be about the going rate for EG Maks around here too.

Borachon
October 20, 2006, 12:45 PM
$200 for an IJ70, you got taken man

I live in Mississippi. Our economic situation puts the cost of living as one of the lowest in the nation. Our salaries are low, but the cost of living is also low so things even out...and even HERE I've seen the costs of Makarovs (of all types) rise in the last two years. Makarovs use to be common as dirt. 4 years ago you could find importers putting Bulgarians on the table. Now you can't. $100 4 years ago might have been correct, but now I routinely see used gun dealers charging $250 dollars for IJ70's single stacks. Admittedly, we never got the influx of Bulgarians that the rest of you guys did around the nation....and now the supply of IJ70's has dried up...and the price has risen.

$200 for a Makarov does NOT mean he got taken...it simply means that the value of Makarovs has risen as the supply of the guns has diminished...and as other shooters have realized it's....as Battlestar Gallactica fans might say....a frakin' good weapon.

Moonclip
October 20, 2006, 02:46 PM
Since you quoted me, at least put in the smiley face I put in my original quote to show I was joking, a least partially. Even 4 years ago, IJ70's were going for somewhat inflated prices for two reasons possibly. $200 would be ok for an IJ70 nowadays but at the higher end of what I would pay.

First, IJ70's have not been imported since like 1996, by 2002, 4 years ago, that means 8 years w/o them. Second, the influx of milsurp Bulgarian makarovs was just beginning or had not begun yet so the makarov market was a bit dry at the time. If one is patient though IJ70's can be found at reasonable prices and even one can get lucky on the more desireable variants like E. German and Chinese.

I have passed fair deals on IJ70's before stupidly because I was living in the past and remembered IJ70's selling for $135-140. Examples of Makarov purchases and when they were made.

nickel plated IJ70 380acp NIB 1994 $136

Bulgarian commercial Makarov 2002 NIB, best one I ever had $169

East German 1960, excellent shape, 2002 $150

Russian "high cap" 9x18 example $135 (but it broke and needed $75 of gunsmithing:mad: ) 2003

Chinese commercial Makarov in box with over 300 rounds of ammo in 2001 for $129

2006, IJ70 380acp blued with hard case, tools,mags for $168

2002 standard blued IJ70 with holster and mags for $100

3 Bulgarian milsurp Makarovs in 2003 for $160 each, excellent shape, two of them PW arms imports w/o huge import marks like Century arms.

Keep in mind these guns were purchased in CA. I buy guns constantly and go to guns shops every week but there is still Makarovs I never see such as Bulgarian Miltex variations and Simsosn Suhls and I've never seen a 380acp hi cap yet.

OldBillThundercheif
October 20, 2006, 07:00 PM
Ah, yes... the good old days.

I wish I had bought more maks back then, but I never thought I would have to pay $200 for a 70 (and consider it a good deal). Luckily I did pick up my Commie Kraut and a standard Rooskie many years ago...

I'm glad I did, otherwise I would be coughing up the wacky amounts of cash that I and everyone else here have been grumbling about :barf:

Borachon
October 21, 2006, 08:32 PM
the more desireable variants like E. German and Chinese.

To collectors perhaps. The E. German and Chinese would only have appeal to me because I could turn around and trade for TWO IJ70's or perhaps a Hi Cap and some ammo. I like the IJ70's adjustable sights because its a pain to get fixed sights adjusted if they happen to be just that little bit off. My Makarov is for self defense, not as a collectible piece. In fact I passed up a private sale of a Chinese Makarov for $250 recently because it wouldn't have been as good a shooter IMO (and because I didn't have the money :) ).

I'll apologize for not including a smiley face, but you and I are obviously coming from different directions on what we want from Makarovs. An IJ70 has as much...in fact, to me....MORE value than an E. German or a Chinese as a shooter. I'd keep neither one of these because I consider the IJ70 to be better suited to this role with its adjustable sights.

If you find any Makarovs in your area for less than $200, my advice would be snatch 'em up. They're only going to get rarer from here on out.

The_Antibubba
October 22, 2006, 03:27 AM
Don't let the arguments about price rattle you. Others have paid less; 9 years ago I paid $150 for an EG. But what you have is probably one of the most rugged and reliable semiauto pistols ever made. You'll have to work pretty hard to get it to not fire. There's all sorts of tweaks and mods out there (a new set of Wolff springs is never a bad idea), but as-is is good too. Look at it and realize that an auto made as well as that today would easily cost twice as much, if not more.

Enjoy yourself!!! :D

Moonclip
October 23, 2006, 08:09 PM
Yes I agree I'm more looking at the collector outlook on Makarovs but every Makarov I have I shoot except for the Chinese I retired, the box is in my curio cabinet for all to see! Thats funny too because of the over 150 guns I own between my father and I the Chinese Makarov is the only one I won't fire anymore! After many years I finally fired every gun in the collection, hardest one to find ammo for was a Greek Mannlicher Schoenauer 6.5x54ms

Some people do like the E. Germans as shooters though due to the triggers suppose to be the best on them and some actually dislike the sights or the IJ70's and makarov.com did or does even offer an fixed sight replacement for them.

I don't mind them but the ones on my now gone nickel one were defective and were fixed by B-west the importer. As mentioned, if you see makarovs at fair prices, especially ones not being imported anymore, grab them as good shooters and possibly good investments.

E.Germans and Chinese are hard to come by in my area and IJ70's are drying up. And it's not like 9x18 ammo is stoked by local Wal mart, may be a consideration for some in more remote areas unless you don't mind mail ordering ammo.

Marshall
October 30, 2006, 08:23 PM
Well finally, here are a few pics I took in hurray tonight. That's a Pierce grip on there, I have a brand new, original East German grip coming in the mail, should be here any day.

1962 East German Makarov

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/bunnfuzz/dcp_0969.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/bunnfuzz/dcp_0951.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c274/bunnfuzz/dcp_0945.jpg

alamo
October 30, 2006, 08:54 PM
Very nice, how's the trigger?

Marshall
October 30, 2006, 09:20 PM
It aint no target gun that's for sure.

Once you take up the slack, it breaks fairly clean. Not any worse than my Browning BDA 380 which is the only other DA/SA autoloader I own. It's probably better than I give it credit for, I am picky on triggers because I am so use to shooting SA guns and revolvers in SA. I pull triggers of DAO revolvers that people say have a good trigger and I cringe. Did that tell you a thing?

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