Five Year Plan for Banning Guns


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Norton
October 17, 2006, 09:17 AM
"Why would an honest person even want a gun?"

by Alan Korwin, Author
Gun Laws of America

It's time to remember what the Democrat party generally seeks
regarding guns and gun rights. The list below was widely circulated
while Clinton was in power. (This list and more is available at my
website, http://www.gunlaws.com.

The democrat-backed Brady group and similar outfits have been quiet
about guns because they want to win the election, and impose their
goals on your rights --

THE FIVE YEAR PLAN:

1. National Licensing of all handgun purchases.

2. Licenses for Rifle and Shotgun owners.

3. State Licenses for ownership of firearms.

4. Arsenal Licenses (5 guns and 250 rounds of ammunition).

5. Arsenal License Fees (at least $300.00, with a cap of $1,000.00).

6. Limits on Arsenal Licensing (None in counties with populations of
more than 200,000).

7. Requirement of Federally Approved Storage Safes for all guns.

8. Inspection License. (Gun safe licenses, yearly fee for spot
inspections).

9. Ban on Manufacturing in counties with a population of more than
200,000.

10. Banning all military style firearms.

11. Banning Machine Gun Parts or parts which can be used in a Machine

gun.

12. Banning the carrying a firearm anywhere but home or target range
or in transit from one to the other.

13. Banning replacement parts (manufacturing, sale, possession,
transfer, installation) except barrel, trigger group.

14. Elimination of the Curio Relic list.

15. Control of Ammunition belonging to Certain Surplus Firearms.
(7.62x54R and .303).

16. Eventual Ban of Handgun Possession..

17. Banning of Any ammo that fits military guns (post 1945).

18. Banning of any quantity of smokeless powder or black powder which

would constitute more than the equivalent of 100 rounds of
ammunition.

19. Ban the possession of explosive powders of more than 1 kg. at any

one time.

20. Banning of High Powered Ammo or Wounding ammo.

21. A National License for Ammunition.

22. Banning or strict licensing of all re-loading components.

23. National Registration of ammunition or ammo buyers.

24. Requirements of special storage safe for ammunition and
licensing.

25. Restricting Gun Ranges to counties with populations less than
200,000.

26. Special Licensing of ranges.

27. Special Range Tax to visitors. ($85.00 per visit per person).

28. Waiting period for rentals on pistol ranges.

29. Banning Gun Shows.

30. Banning of military reenactments.

PLUS:

Ban of all clips holding over 6 bullets.

Elimination of the Dept. of Civilian Marksmanship.

Ban on all realistic replica and toy guns (including "air soft" and
paintball).

The right of gun-violence victims to sue, with financial assistance
from government programs, the gun manufacturers.

Taxes on ammo, dealers, guns, licenses to offset medical costs to
society.

The eventual ban on all semi-automatics regardless of when made or
caliber.

While it's true Republicans haven't done very much to defend your gun

rights (OK, they have done a little) in six years of control, they
offer no support for the anti-rights disarm-the-public plans the left

wing will impose on you if they gain power in the next election. It's

your choice. Do you stay home and evaporate your rights, or go out
and defend them at the ballot box? Tell your friends.

If you took the bait and voted early, instead of rising up as a whole

and voting on election day like you're supposed to, this message is
too late and you got screwed.

Thanks for reading.
Alan Korwin, Author
Gun Laws of America

Permission to circulate this message gladly granted.

What would happen if Washington, Jefferson and Franklin suddenly
found themselves in modern times? Read "Tempus Fugit" --A stunning
achievement, eye-popping entertainment, critical thinking at its
best.
Book review here:
http://www.gunlaws.com/books7novels.htm

Contact:
Alan Korwin
Bloomfield Press
"We publish the gun laws."
4718 E. Cactus #440
Phoenix, AZ 85032
602-996-4020 Phone
602-494-0679 Fax
1-800-707-4020 Orders
http://www.gunlaws.com
alan@gunlaws.com
Call, write, fax or click for free full-color catalog

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Phenom
October 17, 2006, 09:46 AM
I seriously doubt all of that will happen. I can understand a good steel cabinet or safe. I do think people should do some studying before loading a firearm with ammunition. I really don't think they're going to ban airsoft as there's no paperwork required to purhase such items.

Manedwolf
October 17, 2006, 09:50 AM
BATFE got more power, plus its E, in 2002, while both houses of Congress and the WH were controlled by Republicans.

If you only look at one side as the enemy and turn a blind eye to the other, you might be surprised when that side you're not watching sucker-punches you.

kfranz
October 17, 2006, 09:55 AM
I really don't think they're going to ban airsoft as there's no paperwork required to purhase such items.

Remember, gun control laws are not about guns, they are about control. If you'd like to step inside the mindset, read on....

http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/pdf/govpub/838toyguns.pdf

Kentak
October 17, 2006, 10:19 AM
Without credible citation the five-year plan is just another conspiracy theory.

K

kfranz
October 17, 2006, 10:30 AM
Much of what's listed in the "5 year plan" has already been proposed at one time or another. Is it an actual list that gun grabbers are working from? Probably not.

Otherguy Overby
October 17, 2006, 10:47 AM
Kentak:

Without credible citation the five-year plan is just another conspiracy theory.

What does history show us? Lessee: There are over 20,000 gun laws on the books. One should also take into consideration the firearm law lunacy in California and other blue states. Those same politicians would love to see their agenda applied nationwide. The current illegal efforts of Mike "mayor" Bloomberg are an excellent example.

I, personally, have been subject to this anti-gun legistlation. One day I was a legal, law abiding citizen, one day later I was a felon under California law. This was just for owning a once legal SKS (D model) with a detachable magazine, legally bought in CA, .

There really is a vast left wing conspiracy. The vast "right wing" conspiracy is non existant and just projection by the left.

The only way to stop the left from trying to get the guns from our cold dead hands is to make their minds cold and dead first.

wingman
October 17, 2006, 10:54 AM
In my opinion private gun ownership will end within next 20 years simply due to an out of control population growth crime/shooting will increase to a point that the general public will request government to do something. I do not agree with it but in terms of numbers it's coming.:(

MD_Willington
October 17, 2006, 12:39 PM
Sounds like they read the Canadian gun laws and thought, "Boy howdy this looks good"..

**que retard on porch with banjo**

Justin
October 17, 2006, 01:05 PM
Without credible citation the five-year plan is just another conspiracy theory.

Agreed. He really needs to cite a source. Just running down a list of a bunch of anti-rights proposals and claiming it came from the Brady camp doesn't cut it.

He either needs to have a link to a document on their website, a copy of an internal HCI document or memo, video of a speech containing this information, or other proof that this really did come from them.

Just saying it is doesn't make it so.

Declaration Day
October 17, 2006, 01:17 PM
Click on this link which was posted above, and pay attention to the photo on the first page:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/pdf/govpub/838toyguns.pdf

It shows an "illegal" toy gun with a real revolver, and asks if you can tell the difference.

My answer is yes.

However, I can see where someone might say no, given that the picture is low-res, black and white, and dimly lit. :rolleyes:

progunner1957
October 17, 2006, 01:18 PM
This 5 year plan surfaced during the years of the Clinton regieme and was a cover story in an issue of Guns & Ammo magazine. I will see if I still have that issue on hand so I can give you all the month and year of it so you can go look it up for yourselves.

This is not just another conspiracy theory - this is the wet dream of the antigun bigots. You can never turn your back on these people and never let them get in a position of political power.

Don't ever forget what Feinstein said: "If I could have gotten 51 votes for it in the Senate - Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all (guns) in, I would have done it..."

MechAg94
October 17, 2006, 01:23 PM
Hasn't crime been declining? How will crime/shootings increase? I guess you mean media coverage of said events.

ArmedBear
October 17, 2006, 01:25 PM
If you vote Democrat, that's what you're voting FOR.

I understand the urge to vote AGAINST something, but that's part of what you're voting FOR.

Ditto if you vote Libertarian, right now, because there is simply no chance for a victory on any level above small-town councils.

Think the GOP, which I dislike in many ways, has done nothing for your gun rights by just keeping quiet, letting the AWB expire, passing the law against confiscation (signed yesterday), and passing CCW in various states?

If you think that, your ignorance saddens me.

I am a registered Libertarian and I've volunteered only for Libertarian campaigns. That doesn't mean I want to cut off my nose to spite my face.

'Card
October 17, 2006, 01:34 PM
Any time anyone on this forum makes a reference to something negative about our side of the 2A debate, we demand specific sources and some sort of evidence. Accepting this list without verification just because it reinforces our existing beliefs would be pretty hypocritical, don't you think?

There really is a vast left wing conspiracy. Sorry, but I don't buy that one. Believing in a left wing conspiracy would require me to believe that liberals have the intellect, self-discipline, and faculties required to organize anything - and that's just too big of an imaginary leap for me to take. To make the whole idea even more far-fetched, being part of a conspiracy requires that you keep your mouth shut about it. How many liberals do you know who are capable of keeping their mouth shut about something?

As Will Rogers said "I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."

BigFatKen
October 17, 2006, 02:00 PM
18. Banning of any quantity of smokeless powder or black powder which

would constitute more than the equivalent of 100 rounds of
ammunition
Powder is not sold in small enough cans to load < 100 5.56mm rounds. You cannot mark bullets. You cannot make a autolaoder which headstamps with a micro stamp.

Any of these are gun removal tools. The GCA '68 required a serial number. It killed a single shot .22LR that was a common Point of Purchase sale item for $9.95. It did not pay to add a serial number which added $5.

Canada just made a big list of serial nunbers. They did not understand that a number is almost useless. There are hundreds of new models with serial numbers 1-500 on collectors guns.

Telling a Districk Attorney a Winchester 94 is serial number 399, for example, is useless. There are dozens. (hundreds)

Jorg Nysgerrig
October 17, 2006, 02:37 PM
5 years? Try 50 years, at least.

However, for those who think that the government will just up and ban guns one day, this should serve as an reminder of how it would more likely go down. Just a little bit here and there.


I did find what appears to be a more complete version, however, I can't attest to the veracity:
http://www.nysrpa.org/hci-5-year-plan.txt

Otherguy Overby
October 17, 2006, 02:40 PM
'Card:

Sorry, but I don't buy that one. Believing in a left wing conspiracy would require me to believe that liberals have the intellect, self-discipline, and faculties required to organize anything - and that's just too big of an imaginary leap for me to take. To make the whole idea even more far-fetched, being part of a conspiracy requires that you keep your mouth shut about it. How many liberals do you know who are capable of keeping their mouth shut about something?


Sorry, but you appear to be basing your opinion of leftists on our current crop of moonbats who can't run their mouths and brains at the same time. It hasn't always been like this. In the old days (early 1900s) conspirators keep their mouths shut. It's how we got central banking. Why do you suppose there's a "Federal Reserve" room at the Jekyl Island resort? And the income tax came along at the same time because the state's votes on the amendment were fraudulently verified. These were very smart people who accomplished this.

The 1934 National Firearms Act was the result of a conspiracy to do an end run on our second amendment rights. The idea came from the way the Harrison Narcotics Act was created as a way around the constitution.

Don't be distracted by loonies, there still are very smart people who've no qualms about letting useful idiots do the heavy lifting. George Soros can't be doing so much with money alone, he's got help (conspirators) and they are really determined.

It should occur to you that our current form of government can no longer function without polititians conspiring amongst themselves and others.

Paranoia is a survival trait.

longeyes
October 17, 2006, 02:58 PM
Any "five-year plan" in today's world is giddy optimism.

We'd all be speaking Minoan now if they hadn't built their civilization on an active volcano.

G36-UK
October 17, 2006, 03:07 PM
I think I can improve that list a little:

1. National Licensing of all handgun purchases.

2. Licenses for Rifle and Shotgun owners.

3. State Licenses for ownership of firearms.

4. Arsenal Licenses (5 guns and 250 rounds of ammunition).

5. Arsenal License Fees (at least $300.00, with a cap of $1,000.00).

6. Limits on Arsenal Licensing (None in counties with populations of
more than 200,000).

7. Requirement of Federally Approved Storage Safes for all guns.

8. Inspection License. (Gun safe licenses, yearly fee for spot
inspections).

9. Ban on Manufacturing in counties with a population of more than
200,000.

10. Banning all military style firearms.

11. Banning Machine Gun Parts or parts which can be used in a Machine

gun.

12. Banning the carrying a firearm anywhere but home or target range
or in transit from one to the other.

13. Banning replacement parts (manufacturing, sale, possession,
transfer, installation) except barrel, trigger group.

14. Elimination of the Curio Relic list.

15. Control of Ammunition belonging to Certain Surplus Firearms.
(7.62x54R and .303).

16. Eventual Ban of Handgun Possession..

17. Banning of Any ammo that fits military guns (post 1945).

18. Banning of any quantity of smokeless powder or black powder which

would constitute more than the equivalent of 100 rounds of
ammunition.

19. Ban the possession of explosive powders of more than 1 kg. at any

one time.

20. Banning of High Powered Ammo or Wounding ammo.

21. A National License for Ammunition.

22. Banning or strict licensing of all re-loading components.

23. National Registration of ammunition or ammo buyers.

24. Requirements of special storage safe for ammunition and
licensing.

25. Restricting Gun Ranges to counties with populations less than
200,000.

26. Special Licensing of ranges.

27. Special Range Tax to visitors. ($85.00 per visit per person).

28. Waiting period for rentals on pistol ranges.

29. Banning Gun Shows.

30. Banning of military reenactments.

PLUS:

Ban of all clips holding over 6 bullets.

Elimination of the Dept. of Civilian Marksmanship.

Ban on all realistic replica and toy guns (including "air soft" and
paintball).

The right of gun-violence victims to sue, with financial assistance
from government programs, the gun manufacturers.

Taxes on ammo, dealers, guns, licenses to offset medical costs to
society.

The eventual ban on all semi-automatics regardless of when made or
caliber.

31. The repeal of all the above.

32. The repeal of the ban on new machineguns.

33. All anti-gun groups and people who voted for the first 30 arrested on treason charges.

34. The death penalty reinstated for treason.

35. All those from 33 found guilty of treason.

36. Execution by firing squad.

37. ON TO BRITAIN!!!....ahem.

Fosbery
October 17, 2006, 03:09 PM
Perhaps an exchange is in order? The US can send all the antis to Britain and Britain can send all the pros to the US :D

Phenom
October 17, 2006, 03:19 PM
Tell me, just how are they going to get the gun I was born with between my legs:confused: Gun is just a generic term. Banning replicas would mean banning squirt guns, cap guns and so forth, there's trillions out there. Banning of firearms is possible but unlikely;)

Robert Hairless
October 17, 2006, 05:16 PM
Phenom:

I seriously doubt all of that will happen. I can understand a good steel cabinet or safe. I do think people should do some studying before loading a firearm with ammunition. I really don't think they're going to ban airsoft as there's no paperwork required to purhase such items.

Ignore anyone who tries to pierce that fantasy. Whatever helps you get through the day is a good thing. Imaginary friends can also be comforting.

When you have a moment why not write the California Attorney General to explain your understanding so that he makes "a good steel cabinet" acceptable instead of a safe under that state's "Dangerous Weapons Control Law": http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/12087.htm That silly Attorney General and the incompetent California legislature got it all wrong even though it is clearly in your mind. They also have some pretty stiff standards for gun safes.

I'm glad that you say "they can't." I'd be even gladder if "they didn't," but unfortunately "they do."

One of the saddest aspects of human life is that each generation seems compelled to relearn the lessons that previous generations paid dearly to learn.

Phenom
October 17, 2006, 06:08 PM
I also said safe in my post too. Why the heck would I want to write that joker?

SomeKid
October 17, 2006, 06:27 PM
If you took the bait and voted early, instead of rising up as a whole and voting on election day like you're supposed to, this message is too late and you got screwed.

Who is this moron? Voting early HELPS some of us get to vote.

SoCalShooter
October 17, 2006, 06:33 PM
Fosbery that is the best idea I have seen yet, if the anti's want to live in a police state then they can move to Euroland, this is quite a disappointing list, Dems are evil and must be stopped, unfortunetly the libertarians cant get enough momentum going to be a real threat to either party, darn.

RealGun
October 17, 2006, 06:48 PM
I can't imagine all those things happening without a Second Amendment confrontation. It makes me all the more resolved to do what I can to influence who picks and confirms Supreme Court Justices. One way or the other, I will avoid Democrats.

My contribution to the GOA Political Victory Fund has been mailed.

jerkyman45
October 17, 2006, 06:54 PM
the Republican controlled congress did pass that lawsuit protection bill for gun manufacturers last year. Plus we should remember the 94 AWB, under a democratic congress. Be aware that dems are more left, and the more left they are, the less they like 2A rights.

Art Eatman
October 17, 2006, 07:11 PM
I have no doubt that the items on the list would get "Yea!" votes from the Congressional anti-gunners. You don't have to believe in "plans" or "conspiracies" at all. Just read what they've said, see how they've voted, in the past.

So, once again, I see it as most important that control of the House of Representatives stay with the Republicans. Holding the Senate would be good; holding the Presidency would be good, but if the media has any credibility at all, our best hope is the House.

The House is more pro-gun-rights than the Senate. Simple as that.

Art

Robert Hairless
October 17, 2006, 07:35 PM
Phenom:

I also said safe in my post too. Why the heck would I want to write that joker?

I'd bet that you'd like him if you would only take the initiative and write to him. Don't be shy or standoffish. Take the initiative.

Then maybe you can tell him what you seriously believe won't happen and he can tell you what he seriously believes has happened and is happening. It could be a lot of fun to see how your beliefs measure against reality when he shows you not only the laws that have been passed but also the ones that have been proposed and are being proposed. And then you can get to say again "I can't seriously believe all that will happen."

What you said, by the way, was "I can understand a good steel cabinet or safe" as if the two were interchangeable or you would get to choose. There are very high standards for approved gun safes in California, and they are costly. Why it's almost as if one of the tactics being used by anti-gun forces is to escalate the cost of gun ownership so that many people can't afford it even when it's legal--until they can make it illegal, which you seriously believe can't happen.

But you and I can have some fun too. I especially enjoyed your jokes about your "gun." Funny. But let's look at what you think, because that's where the humor lies.

Phenom:

Tell me, just how are they going to get the gun I was born with between my legs Gun is just a generic term. Banning replicas would mean banning squirt guns, cap guns and so forth, there's trillions out there. Banning of firearms is possible but unlikely

Start with your statement that "Banning replicas would mean banning squirt guns, cap guns and so forth, there's trillions out there. " But many school districts do ban replica guns and expel students who take one into school. Oh, sure, I know that's unlikely because you seriously don't believe it can happen (and for real good reasons too you betcha), but the more important point is that school districts think it's "likely" and they really, truly do it. So either you're living in fantasy or the school districts do. I wouldn't for the world want to say that you don't know what you're talking about, so it seems kinder to suggest that you contact the people who are actually doing what you seriously don't believe what will happen.

Now go on to your hilarious comment about your "gun":
Tell me, just how are they going to get the gun I was born with between my legs

I wouldn't presume to tell you about such a personal matter, and I understand that you're attempting to be funny, but it might be worth noting that even such matters have been addressed by governments that have ordered sterlization and castration for the public good. It would be nice to say "it can't happen here" but it has happened in the U.S. and probably still is happening. In fact the Eugenics Movement was born here and showed Nazi Germany the way to its most horrific policies: first to the sterlization of undesirables, then to their extermination, and then to the expansion of the "undesirables" so that Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, Christian Scientists, and many other groups were legally defined as "undesirable" and therefore subject to death.

That "gun" of yours isn't exempt from deactivation or removal by a government. Gun owners are considered to be undesirables by many people. All it takes is a law, and your "gun" is grass. It happens, it has happened, and it can happen. What can't happen is that people could be required by law to strap themselves into their own cars: what a guy does within the guy's car is his own business, so it's seriously unbelievable that he could be required to strap himself into it. And what a guy eats is his own business too, so it can't happen that unsaturated vegetable oil could be banned. What a guy puts in his own mouth is certainly nobody else's business, so let's light up a cigar, pipe, or cigarette and chat together. Can't ban alcohol either, thank goodness, so none of us seriously believe in Prohibition. Can't send someone to jail just for taking a date on a vacation to another state or country: the Mann Act never happened.

Can't this. Can't that. Fantasies are lovely, until they aren't. Many other people here are in touch with reality. That's why they are upset. You're not. That's why you're happy, because you seriously can't believe that what's happening is indeed really happening. Lucky you. Have fun with your "gun."

Fosbery
October 17, 2006, 07:47 PM
Tell me, just how are they going to get the gun I was born with between my legs

Tweezers and a microscope?

Sorry, it had to be said :p

carterbeauford
October 17, 2006, 07:55 PM
I'd rather melt down all my guns than obey any of those laws. Good God :eek: :fire:

Not gonna happen, though :)

Otherguy Overby
October 17, 2006, 08:26 PM
carterbeauford:

I'd rather melt down all my guns than obey any of those laws. Good God

Not gonna happen, though

OIC, you aren't worried it will happen here. Regardless the fact it already has... Nope, everything is great for gunnies and we've no future gun control to fret over...

carterbeauford
October 17, 2006, 08:42 PM
OIC, you aren't worried it will happen here

No, I'm confident my colleagues here will get as pissed off as I will if it even comes close to happening and rise up.

If it happened, as things stand today, I am guilty of virtually of virtually everything on that list. It would be a sad day if I had to move to a country that is more free than the USA.

Panthera Tigris
October 17, 2006, 08:54 PM
The only reason there seems to be a left wing conspiracy is because more and more people are embracing their anti gun views and agreeing with them. Whether they're brainwashed or not, more people are agreeing.

Take Chicago for example. People here and in other gun forums lament Chicago and call for them to end their anti gun laws. And they do violate the 2nd Amendment.
However, when I visited Chicago, I couldn't find a single person who gave a rat's you know what whether they should be allowed to carry guns in the city.

I don't see alot of the stuff listed happening either. However if it does, there won't be anything we here can do about it. Because in the end, the Republicans and NRA will both give in and decide it's the best thing for us to be safe, the laws will be passed, and the only recourse gun folks will have will be armed resistance. And despite talk, I don't think the majority of the gun folks will be willing to give up their lives in resistance over their guns.

expvideo
October 17, 2006, 09:15 PM
There really is a vast left wing conspiracy.

Let's be fair here, there is also a vast right wing conspiracy. Denial of that is just as stupid as denial of the left wing conspiracy.

Both have bad sides. I am personally very liberal, but I am really considering voting republican this election. Do I agree with republican ideals? Not really. However, I really preffer the fact that republicans get things done, rather than whining about them. I may not like what they're getting done, or approve of it, but I like that there is movement rather than just whining on the democrat side. I also don't trust liberals with my gun rights. I don't think I should trust them.

Remember that this opinion is coming from a strong liberal. Hell, I have the soviet flag tattooed on my wrist and I used to promote communism.. Doesn't really get more liberal than that. And I STILL vote republican.

*butterflies fill stomach... waiting for the commie-bastard flames*

Phenom
October 17, 2006, 09:19 PM
That depends on whether or not the "gun" owners have anything to live for or not.

LkWinnipesaukee
October 17, 2006, 09:31 PM
:barf:

literally.

Panthera Tigris
October 17, 2006, 09:37 PM
Well, I think some of it is fear tactics. We have the most states ever allowing carry, they just passed a Federal law outlawing guns confiscations in disaster situations, states are starting to look at the 'stand your ground' laws, yet the screams about them taking our guns keep getting yelled. Sorry, but I don't buy it.

However, I know things can change very quickly too. If a bunch of antis gain the majority of the vacant Congressional seats coming up, things could change real fast.

However, many Republicans (Dick Lugar, McCain instantly come to mind) are just as anti gun as any Democrat. So how does anyone think our gun rights are secure regardless which of these two parties are running things?

wally
October 17, 2006, 10:51 PM
Don't ever forget what Feinstein said: "If I could have gotten 51 votes for it in the Senate - Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all (guns) in, I would have done it..."

Come Take 'Em. And she thinks Iraq is a quagmire.....

The Second American Revolution will start the same way the the first one did. Check your history, what were the British troops marching to Lexington and Concord to seize?

--wally.

308nato
October 17, 2006, 11:22 PM
Robert Hairless:

Well said sir ,I think that most people here are not old enough or
informed enough to remember those things you brought up in your
reply to this thread.

carterbeauford
October 17, 2006, 11:48 PM
It would be a sad day if I had to move to a country that is more free than the USA.

There seems to be some controversy about this statement coming off as unpatriotic. You are free to interpret it as you see fit, but what I meant was that if that list becomes law, the USA is not going to be a free country anymore. Glad we cleared that up.

Phenom
October 18, 2006, 12:05 AM
The United States will no longer be the United States if this crap keeps up.

bigun15
October 18, 2006, 12:13 AM
So, on that list, where would you start shooting?

Maybe I shouldn't ask, but it's what I was wondering when I was reading the list.

Art Eatman
October 18, 2006, 12:47 AM
This is more a desultory conversation than an on-topic discussion...

Art

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