[Sven]

California is really starting to get at me - I mean REALLY get at me. The talk of tax hikes (income, $0.10 per round ammo tax) and all the draconian laws here are really getting me down.

Please help suggest places for me to move....not sure if my requirements below are realistic.

Desired characteristics:

1) Good weather most of the year (prefer warmer to colder)
2) Want rural setting, but relatively near (ie, 1-2 hour drive) metro center with conveniences and culture
3) Need high-speed internet access (ISDN OK, prefer faster)
4) Shall-issue CCW or easy issuance
5) No state income tax
6) No laws against AR-15s, std.cap mags, Class III, etc.
7) Low crime

Ideas?

[Jeeper]

Reconsider the No State Income Tax requirement. Texas has no income tax but our property tax is 3 times what it was in arizona. My overall taxes in AZ were half what they are in texas when you add state income tax with property tax.

[Byron Quick]

Sven,

Kinda sounds like Knoxville to me, buddy, or Chattanooga.
Mapquest gives a time of 31/2 hours to Atlanta from Knoxville...driving the speed limit.

Tamara, how long does it take to get to Atlanta?:D

[boohsdad]

Try Pahrump Nevada 1Hr from Las Vegas, No handgun registration Nye County. Home of front sight plenty of Boflm to shoot on. low crime rate conservative part of Nevada. Looking to move from las Vegas myself.

If I can help let me know
Roy

[TechBrute]

Don't forget about the proposed tripling of your auto registration in CA.

My vote is for the DFW area. I just moved from San Diego a few weeks ago. My wife is a native San Diegan, and she loves Dallas so far.

[444]

I was going to suggest Pahrump NV myself, since it answers every requirement you have with one exception. To the best of my knowlege, there is no highspeed internet connection. Now, it looks like you may be talking about stuff that is beyond that of most home users, and I don't know about that.

We have good weather most of the year. The "bad" weather is when it is really (I mean REALLY) hot.
It is a rural setting, my drive to work is about an hour and 15 minutes, but I live on the farthest side of town away from Las Vegas, you could live in the South end of town and knock off probably 20 minutes. We do have two supermarkets and a super Wal-Mart is built and ready to open.
We have shall issue CCW, and open carry is not uncommon in Pahrump
We have no state income tax
There are no laws against AR15s (I have 9 of them and shoot them all the time). No magazine issues. Class III is no problem, I own a sub gun and have two suppressors ordered and paided for awaiting delivery. When I went into the Sheriff's office to get my paperwork signed I was really sheepish about it. I was telling the Chief Deputy that I had a minor collection of WWII rifles and I wanted to round out my collection with a Sten. Not only was there no problem with signing the paperwork , but he started telling me how much fun I was going to have with it and showed me a few of his personal guns he had in his desk.
Low Crime; compared to what ? We do have crime. It isn't nearly as bad as a major city, but it is not unheard of.

Pahrump is a town of 30,000 people, although it is very spread out. A standard lot is considered to be 1 1/4 acre. So the town is maybe 10-15 miles long across the valley. Pahrump is a growing town as Las Vegas housing prices, and kalifornia housing prices have gotten to the point that the average guy can't own a home. so it is in kind of a transitional state. It is going from a rural farming community, to a small city. We just got paid firefighters for example.
Pahrump is also close to Southern kalifornia if you live in Southern kalifornia now and have friends or family still there. In fact the Western edge of Pahrump pretty much ends at the kalifornia state line. I spent two days last week fishing in Lone Pine which is right on the other side of Death Valley from us.

[Betty]

Tennessee sounds good to me! :D

[MolonLabe416]

NW Washington north of Mt. Vernon to the Canadian border and east to the Cascades. We get less than half the rain of Seattle. A cold overnight low in the winter is 20, a hot day in the summer is 85. Alternately, the Yakima Valley, our wine country. Gun friendly, except no Class III.

Prescott AZ.

East TN from Nashville east.

Bend OR.

Run to the boder...

[synoptic]

There are some nice areas on the outskirts of houston, but to be honest, Houston traffic is horrible. I second the DFW recomendation, a lot of my friends live up there. Seems that there are LOTS of little cities close to dallas but still small and self sufficient...

[Skunkabilly]

Do you need a roommate?

[Oleg Volk]

Tennessee!!! We even have some Texans here.

[Frohickey]

Texas
Nevada
Florida

for you that want more cooler weather, Washington
South Dakota
Minnesota

[Sheslinger]

Come on, you just have to join the Tennessee Chapter of THR!!!

No state income tax, sales tax is 9.25-9.75% though, depending on the county. Some counties have 28% liquor tax, so if you do consume alcohol, I would avoid those.

Shall Issue State.

Weather... how are you with tornadoes? We moved to TN from MD, and Cslinger still can't get used to the fact that weather kills people here. He is getting better, though - slept in his own bed and not in a closet this time around. Other than that, I really like the weather here. It's in the 90's right now, and summers and falls are awesome.

Have to disclose that, as a rule, people cannot drive. You will see people making left out of the right turn lanes in front of you, running red lights, U-turns in the middle of 4-lane roads, etc, and so forth.

Crime is probably average, worse to the West of Nashville, but it is less violent than what we are used to in Baltimore-DC area.

Shooting is cheap. I am not sure how fees are in CA but in MD Cslinger tells me you had to pay $30-ish for 1/2 hour or something. Indoor range fees are generally $12-15/day here, or annual memberships are around $150-250.

Registration and emission test are annual (mentioning, once again, because it was bi-annual in MD), and it's about $80-90.

We have Comcast cable modem, and it's decent, DSL is also here.

Overall cost of living is a pleasant change for us as we could never afford a single home in MD. Our house would easily be 2.5-3 times as much there.

Have I mentioned the TN Chapter of THR? Oh, yeah, I did...
Good Luck with whatever you decide.
Sheslinger

[CZ 75 BD]

to Alabamastan. We have come a long way since the police dogs and fire hoses of the 60's. Most people don't realize we are not all living in houses on stilts in the swamp. We have a good quality of life, and it is getting better all the time. Don't listen to what Neal Boortz says, we have shoes and we wear them. A well kept secret. :cool:

[Ladybug]

Start here... http://www.findyourspot.com/

enter your non-gun criteria and it will generate a list of cities across the country, then go to packing.org to find out about gun laws in those places.

The website is fun, and it came up with some really great places for me (but now I have to stay where I'm at for a couple of years).

[Steve Smith]

Short of the state income tax part, Colorado fits well.


Come on over and pretend you're John Denver for a while...except that nasty crashing habbit.

[dav]

Ladybug wrote
Start here... http://www.findyourspot.com/That was an interesting site, Ladybug. Thanks. I was born, raised, and still live in California.

Your quiz ended up telling me Tennessee, either of the Carolinas, or maybe Georgia/Mississippi. I would never have thought that was where my preferences would lead.

I'm going to have to take a long vacation trip and come check out that part of the country. I drove through Tennessee one night, but have never visitied.

[Skunkabilly]

Lots of places listed in the deep South, Tennessee and Arizona for me.

[moa]

Places not to move to are Maryland. Generally anti-gun owner and high taxes, especially in the high population areas. In some places in Maryland crime is horrific (Baltimore and Prince Georges County). Maryland is about the sixth wealthiest State.

You might want to look at Virginia. Shall issue and lower taxes. I may move to Virginia out of Maryland when I retire. Climate is not too bad in either Maryland or Virginia. Some winters are fairly warm and there is not a lot of snow or ice storms usually except in the western mountains. Summers can be hot and humid. Spring and Fall are usually quite nice.

West Virginia might be another possibility. However they say if West Virginia was ironed flat, it would be bigger than Texas. Apparently taxes are pretty high too.

[Zundfolge]

I'd invite you to Colorado, but there are too damn many Californians here as it is!
:neener:

[Art Eatman]

You might consider the area around Fredericksburg/Kerrville, Texas. An hour or so from either Austin or San Antonio. Lower humidity than either city. A bit of gentrification, but not nauseatingly so. Lots of hunting. Not too far for fishing and boat-riding.

A buddy of mine has Satellite Internet, and really likes it. I think he paid around $300 for the antenna rig, and it's $60/month. Saves the separate phone line and the $10/month higher-than-common ISP cost in Terlingua.

Art

[goalie]

Don't come to Minnesota, we'll tax the beejezus out of you. :rolleyes:

[PromptCritical]

Weathers good most of year, a little dry in the summer, can snow several feet in winter. No extra gun laws, shall issue. There is an income tax, but no sales tax.

The area around Bend is nice.

Normally Oregonians despise Californians moving there and bringing their California ideas, but I think those ideas are what you want to get away from.

I hate Kali too, and want to get back to Oregon ASAP.

[MikeK]

Another thanks to Ladybug. Chatanooga TN was #1. Most of the others were in the South, including a few more in TN. Some I have considered, others not. It will be fun exploring a few. Funny, MD and CA were not on the list.

[Pendragon]

Sven,

I'm in the same boat. We are trying to find a place with good gun laws and low cost of living and a place where I can work in my field of IT support.

Jacksonville FL is in my top 3 - more mild weather than most of FL, very business friendly and telecom infrastructure like crazy - low cost of living and low housing prices. Very affordable homes even with water front.

I just added San Antonio to the list. You can buy a GIGANTIC home there for $100k and its a 1.6Mil metro area so they should have some tech.

Use findyourspot.com and play with your answers - read about the cities it comes up with.

One of the things it asks you is your tolerance for taxes, crime and also any orgs you belong to - I put that I was in the NRA and that seemed to help steer it towards more gun friendly places.

[Waitone]

Come to NC. We need more taxpayers.

14th largest state in the union, 7th heaviest tax load.

Lost 190,000 jobs in the last two years yet government added 31,000 jobs.

Just finished implementing a state wide tax increase. Result is a $400 million budgetary shortfall.

Weather is perfect. Government hasn't figured out how to tax it yet.

Shall issue state.

Only downside is you have to figure out if you want to live in the mountains, hill country, or the coast. If you decide the coast then you have to decide if you want inland water or beaches.

Bring your friends. We need all the taxpayers we can get.

[CGofMP]

Sven.. Oh why why why would you want to leave this hell hole? You gonna set up shop someplace else? Need a loyal employee?

hehehe

Seriously, here are two resources you may find very very interesting:

demographics crime etc (http://www.ehome.com/ehome/buyers/neighborhoodprofile.asp)

and

State Gun Laws (http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=state)


I can not of course vouch for the stuff on those sites but it MIGHT give you a place to start looking and some general ideas you can follow up on with realtors, cops, and lawyers who really know.

Hope this helps some...

Charles - in cement overshoes sinking into the Kalifornia mire

[Standing Wolf]

I'm one @#$%^&! of a lot happier in Colorado than I ever was in the People's Republic of California. Perfect? No. Good? Very!

[Darrin]

I'll cast another vote for Tennessee! Just look at all the people you'd already know! :D

[Bowlcut]

Ive lived here all my life. Do like the state for what it is. Will say this, avoid west tn like the plague tho. Dont cross the TN river as for it gets flat and snooty ;). Middle Tn has alot to offer tho. Most any place in MidTn is about 1-2 hours from Nashville or Chattanoga.

I grew up in Upper East TN, beautiful place but if you like city stuff....heck a decent theater then its not there. 2 hours from Knoxville so made it a pain to go there. Its a perfect place to retire to tho, nice slow pace of life.

Now in Nashville its a bit different. Cost of living suprisingly is cheaper down here in Nashville, but cost of rental/purchase houseing is alot more.

Gun ranges are pretty spread out. There are 3 indoor ranges that I know of within less than an hours drive from each other. One dirt cheap out door range about 30 mins south of nashville. And one free range about 45 mins north of nashville. Havent been to any shotgun ranges down here so no clue where to find them.

Taxes are a pain but not horrible. Ive a couple times while in Clarksville went across the line to Kentucky to buy my groceries, wasnt hardly worth the trouble, 10 min drive.

Guns of any sort are welcome :D heck the funkier you bring to the range the better the looks you will get from the others. And crime isnt horrible. Mostly domestic stuff around here. Just now getting some more violent crimes like home invasion. Usualy deaths are from people you know not a random thing. And in nashville you can get away from alot of this by moving to a few key areas around town.

Weather is rather pleasent. Getting a few more big storms and tornadoes this year tho. We usualy get 4 real seasons, winter is usualy mild but do get a few snows. summer is starting to get hotter or just my AC doesnt work as well as it should i dont know :D

So yea, other than the normal slow economy its a nice place to live. Actualy the work is picking up around here from what ive heard from other friends. There are few other places in the south that Id want to live.

[Gordy Wesen]

Wish I would have gotten that job in TN years ago.
My big mistake in the interview was asking "Why do they call Tennessee the Volunteer State?"
"Because only Volunteers would live there."
My Dad thought it was funny. He started out in a bus factory there.

[rdcinmn]

Don't come to Minnesota, snow shoveling, tornado's,blizzards But better than california! I escaped from there back in 1997-the best decision I ever made. :cool:

[AZTOY]

tornado's :uhoh:




I'll stay in AZ:neener:

[Sir Galahad]

Take a look at Arizona's Verde Valley. This is beautiful country all over Arizona. You'd like Flagstaff, but we do get snow. Jobs are not easy to come by in Flagstaff, though. Verde Valley is great (Cottonwood, Camp Verde.) Prescott is nice, too. Yes, we have state tax, but it's not too high. You can find anything you want here gun-wise. We have a couple Class 3 only dealers here, too. Nice thing is that our Arizona state constitution guaruntees our right to bear arms. And it also forbids a city or county (and the state itself) to pass a law that goes against the state constitution. So, that means, for example, Flagstaff cannot decide to ban assault rifles in city limits. Folks here own and like guns and those that don't like it have it learn to live with it or move somewhere else.

[444]

I advised you to check out Pahrump NV. and I still stand by everything I said, but if I knew 20 years ago, what I know now, I would try to make a living in Arizona. Arizona is a shooting Mecca. The Phoenix area has so many opportunities to compete in the shooting sports that you would wear out your car driving to them all. There are gun shops everywhere and many very well known shooting related companies are located in Arizona. The hunting is great. Plus, I also enjoy big league sports. Phoenix has major league baseball, an NFL team, an NBA team, and an NHL team. They have big time college football, and about half the major league baseball teams hold their spring training there. I really like Arizona. But, it is only about half a day's drive away from here in Southern Nevada.
My idea of a great weekend is to drive down to Phoenix on a Friday night, see a Diamondbacks game, shoot an IDPA match on Saturday morning, see a Diamondbacks game on Saturday night, shoot an IDPA match on Sunday morning and drive home. That is what life is all about to me. The fact that my parents are snow birds and have a house down there that sits empty most of the time is all the better. No cost for lodging and I can bring the dog.

[CZ-75]

Ohio was awful on gun laws.

If you live around Cincy, you have the option of living in either KY or IN and enjoying the amenities and, possibly, jobs, found on the OH side. Traffic sucks, but IN might be better in this regard, since you aren't necessarily bottlenecked by having to cross the river. KY has enough infrastructure that it may be possible to live and work on the same side of the river. Both IN and KY have CCW and "reasonable" gun laws.

[sm]

Ladybug,

Interesting site. One of the suggestions...I ended up in the Northern part of my current state:uhoh:

Then in Art's neighborhood,then AZ, and then TN and KY . I don't think anywhere wants to have me.

Our Taxes, politics, education and such turns me off in the capitol city of AR. Born/raised and came back here. Be nice to have better opportunities, no humidity, no tornadoes...

Sven, good luck.

[CZ-75]

Somethin's a little screwy with findyourspot.com's site and algorithms. I specifically said no to the NE and high taxes and big govt. and I got NY locations 3-4 times, albeit upstate.

[jimbo]

Well that website was very disappointing. I took the quiz out of curiosity but the last step demanded that I provide my personal information for their marketing, which I refused to do. No big deal. They can demand anything they want. But I'll be darn if I'll play their game. I alread know I would rather live in Virginia. I can do my own research without resorting to a website that mandates you enter all of the marketing information on you that they desire. :cuss:

[Sheslinger]

Any of you who mentioned considering Middle or Eastern TN, make sure you let us know - PM or email - and stop by.

The more people to show our toys to or play with theirs, the better.

Sheslinger

[atek3]

Here were my hits. If any of you work at a chem/biotech firm that is in need of a UC-berkeley Medicinal Chemist gimme a ring. As it stands I might be getting a job in Woburn, MA. I'd likely live in Nashua, NH. If that job is no go I'll probably be stuck in the bay area for a while looking for work.



My spots:
idaho falls, idaho
great falls montana
Anchorage, Alaska
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Bremerton, Washington
Loveland, Colorado
Boise, Idaho
Ogden, Utah
Spokane, Washington
Flagstaff, Arizona
Grand Junction, Colorado
Roanoke, Virginia
Fort Collins, Colorado
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Lynchburg, Virginia
Knoxville, Tennessee

[carp killer]

I don't blame ya Sven. You will be suprized what you have been missing when you leave Kali. Remember when you could go into a gun store and pay your money and walk out with your toy! Or when you were able to buy any kind of rifle, shotgun or pistol you wanted. And you won't have to feel like a criminal if you buy a gun from a private party and not have to use a FFL, and pay all those f***ing fees and taxs! Come to the land of the free and good luck on your search.

ck

[Combat-wombat]

Hmmm... Art Bell lives in Pahrump, Nevada. (for those of you farmiliar with him.

[atek3]

sven what are you going to do about the business?

atek3

[444]

And is this supposed to be good or bad ?

[Robert inOregon]

Central Oregon

SHUT.. UP! ;)

Liberal freaks, high unemployment and tons of rain. You don't want to come here.

[twoblink]

I have been shooting in Nye County (Kingdom of Nye as Art Bell calls it) and we were just spraying in the desert, and a local cop drives up.

Pulls up, tips his hat, and starts going through all our guns..

He's inspecting it like he was checking for something illegal..

I told him, "All my guns are legal." he laughed and said "I could care less if they were legal, I'm just checking to see if you have anything I want to try shootin'!" :D

I'm considering Vegas or Reno myself, Skunk needs a roommate..

[Sven]

Thank you for the excellent suggestions.

My current list of considerations, sorted from nearest to farthest:

Pahrump, Nevada
Flagstaff / Prescott, Arizona
Central Oregon
NW Washington
Fort Collins, Colorado
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Minnesota (born and raised, btw)
DFW / San Antonio, Texas
Fredericksburg/Kerrville, Texas
Nashville / Knoxville / Chattanooga, Tennessee

Give out a shout if your area is or is not listed here and let me know how it is for you.

I can run my business anywhere I have internet and phone access. I need relatively low latency for coding purposes - how are satellite hookups for these applications?

Would prefer more Western as that's where my friends and current business contacts reside, but can 'grow' anywhere once transplanted.

Need to be relatively near a major airport (1-2 hours drive). Would prefer to have some room to stretch out... loved being with Oleg and runt out in the country of TN, walking in the fields and woods with rifles... _that_ was something I will never forget and _that_ is what I am saving for... that is what I am working for:

The dream ranch where y'all can stop by and bring your guns and barbeque sauce.

-

Timeline is - realistically - 1-3 years for a move. Please keep sharing your suggestions and feedback!

[CZ-75]

Liberal freaks, high unemployment and tons of rain. You don't want to come here.

Why are you worried? Either you get pro-gun, pro-freedom Kalifornians, or you get some kook from Berkeley wanting to set up a commune to wait for the flying saucer and marry farm animals.

[Skunkabilly]

Would prefer to have some room to stretch out... loved being with Oleg and runt out in the country of TN, walking in the fields and woods with rifles...

WHAT? You can be tactical in public?!?!?!?!

You mean I don't have to lock my doors, close my blinds, take pictures of myself dressed up and post them on the Internet as my only way of releasing my inner self???

[JeanC]

North Idaho is pretty good. Here we have a decent university (tho we are having a financial crisis and a bit of a scandal involving our former college pres and a few others and a 10 million dollar loan by the U to itself), a nice little airport, 90 minutes from Spokane and a larger airport, good internet service, a nice local range (hubby is pres :D ) , good hunting and fishing, we do have state income tax, but it isn't bad and the folk here are quite nice.

[4 eyed six shooter]

I would have to agree that northern Idaho deserves a look. Easy to get a CCW, low crime, friendly people, lots of guns and far lower taxes than Kali. I live next to the Teton Mts in Idaho, just on the other side of the Tetons from Jackson, WY. I love it here (escaped from Kali in 1998). It would be a little to cold here if you don't like the winter weather, (belive it or not it snowed today, it didn't stick, but it did snow). Northern Idaho is not as cold. The winters here (6500 ft.) are long and cold, but spring,summer and fall are wonderful. On the way home from work today I saw Elk, bison and even a small black bear. No tellin where the moose were but I see them all of the time also. It's about a 5 mile drive from my house to hunt all of the above. People here have a strong work ethic and a live and let live type attitude. All in all, you couldn't drag me back to Kali with a team of wild horses.
Where ever you end up, it will be far better than California. I feel for those of you stuck in Kali due to jobs or family. Make the escape if possible, it's well worth it.
Good shooting, John K

[Pendragon]

Sven,

Sat links are notorious for rather high latency - like often 600-1200ms latency - often much much worse.

Take it from an avid gamer.

[Ivanimal]

We'll miss ya. I will stay here and fight. I never run from a good fight.;)

[atek3]

As fun as it is to fight the banners tooth and claw, it is nice to wake up, taste the sweet air of quasi-freedom, and go about your life breaking less laws than if you lived in california.

doesn't want to break too many laws ----> atek3

[dude]

HA!

[valnar]

Arizona would be my preference. Warm, dry (great for blued guns) and decent gun laws. They also are a hub for new technology.

Robert


Edit: I just did Ladybug's test and I came up with Tucson and Phoenix as my #1 and #2 picks. Imagine that!

Now I just need to get out of O-HEIL-O. :cuss:

-Robert

[Sven]

Phoenix and surrounding areas is currently at the top of my list. Please keep the ideas coming in!

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

Based on your criteria, rules #5 and #7 make the state
of Alabama damn near impossible!:uhoh: :(

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Ivanimal]

As fun as it is to fight the banners tooth and claw, it is nice to wake up, taste the sweet air of quasi-freedom, and go about your life breaking less laws than if you lived in california.

Alas another midwesterner moves to California, out of California , into California, out of California............You must admit it is worth making up lame excuses to leave. How else would you explain the insanity. Other than the longing for where you come from and the warmth and security that brings.

I really dont think too many people leave CA for the gun laws.:D

[atek3]

whoa there california cowboy. I'm from missouri, a state just about as bad as CA in every single way, worse weather too.

atek3

[Ivanimal]

My sincerest apologies I had no clue as usual:)

[Sven]

BUMP.

Will be looking at 160 acres in NW Arizona next weekend...

:cool: :cool: :cool: :D

[444]

Can you be more specific ?

[Blain]

NEW HAMPSHIRE!!!!!!!!!!



The only CIVILIZED place!

www.freestateproject.org

[simonp]

Glad to see that I am not the only person contemplating a long distance move. I have been looking to get out of Cali :fire: for the last 6 months preferably to AZ, TX or Colorado just waiting on the right job offer to come along. Might have to consider TN now though I never considered the South much other than possibly Atlanta but anywhere is better than here.

Simon

[444]

Come on Sven, where is the compound you are looking at ?

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Phoenix is TOO hot. You must look at Southern Utah. St. George is a snowbird paradise, hot summers, mild winters, ~3,000 ft. ASL. Slightly north, on the I15, is Cedar City, warm summers, but winter is there, some snow. ~6,000 ft ASL, 12,000 ft mountains to look at. Each has DSL or satellite or Line-of-Sight internet. I have LOS internet in the hills 1mb $118/mo. I operate a business there relying on CA clients.

Here is the best part. 1-2 hours to Las Vegas. 6 hours to SoCal, 10 hours to NoCal by auto. SkyWest gets you to LV or SLC for connections.

Income tax is manageable. Property tax is real low. Sales tax 6%. Cheap work force.

Tons of space. Shooting? Just about anywhere. Land? Plenty. Lots of BLM and NFS land.

Example, 3 acres, 3,200 sq foot house, 3 car garage, $200,000. Taxes? $780/yr. On Snob Hill.

Auto insurance? Cheap. Auto Registration? Very low.

Concealed carry took a week, minimal paperwork, no local approval.

Any gun allowed under federal law is allowed in Utah.

BTW, Mormons have not been a problem. I have heard stories, but I have never experienced any issues. Not like I am running for County Commissioner, though. Benefit is that the area is VERY conservative.

[eXe]

Yeah let me add another vote for Pahrump NV. I have been here in Pahrump one week today, This place is great. I moved from the central coast of Cali, and we have never been happier.

BTW Pahrump now has high speed access I have it set up here, its wireless (802.11B) and they do have to stick a small antenna on your house, but its great and fast.

[444]

7.62FullMetalJacket
Do you live in Cedar City ?
I love Cedar City. Beautiful town and spectacular surroundings.
I have considered moving there. I work with a guy that lives there. Another guy I work with lives in Enterprise. A few guys live in St. George. But, I don't really think it would work out. I am single, watch Monday night football every week at the brothel, drink beer, chew Copenhagen..............

[Devonai]

I wouldn't rule out New Hampshire just because of the weather. We get a whole six months out of the year without snow!

Property taxes are high ($40 per $1000 of property value a year, last I knew) but you can get lots of land for less money. I rent, so it's not a problem. People ask me, "well, isn't the property tax passed on to you from landlord to tenant?" Maybe it is, but I'm paying $150 less per month versus my old place in Beverly, MA, for an apartment that's 50% larger. But I suppose this might be like saying that I love being beaten with cudgels because it hurts so much less than whips.

There are plenty of places to live in southern NH that are within an hour of Boston, although that number can change radically during rush hour.

Firearms laws are nothing less than outstanding. Only our neighbor Vermont does it better, and it's a close call, as CCW permits are blitheringly easy to get in NH.

[Gray Peterson]

Cast my vote for Oregon, either Washington or even better, Clackamas County. Clackamas doesn't have as high taxes, the public transit is quite good, Oregon is a Class 3 State, though there is income tax, there is no sales tax.

Vancouver, Washington is also a good choice, no income tax, but high sales tax and no Class 3.

[Brad Johnson]

Come out to Lubbock and I'll show you the sights. A little info...

Sunny most of the year. Spring and summer thunderstorms, but they clear rapidly and cause the most wonderful sunsets.

Temps
Summer - Avg high 95-100, avg low 80-85
It is not uncommon for use to have several weeks a year with high temps at or above 100. On occassion, we will see daytime temps in the one-teens. Evenings are usually mild with a light breeze.

Winter - Avg high 60-70, avg low 30-40
It is unusual for us to have many days of hard sub-freezing temps here in Lubbock, but they do occur on occasion and usually last no more than 2-3 days.

Spring and Fall are usually pleasant beyond all imagination. We do have a prevailing southwest wind in springtime that can get quit gusty at times. Generally they are in the 10-15 mph range, but on occasion we will have a day with 50+ mph sustained winds. Not a lot, but they do occur.

Lubbock....

Population - 206000 (appx)
Economy Base - agriculture, education, some industry, some technology
Colleges and Teaching facilities (partial list)
- Texas Tech University
- Lubbock Christian University
- South Plains College
- Wayland Baptist University

Local Attractions - partial
- Texas Tech University Museum
- Texas Tech University Ranching Heritage Center
- The Buddy Holly Museam
- The Lubbock Lake Landmark archaeological site
- Buffalo Springs Lake (small)
- Many civic parks and small playa lakes
- Yellowhouse Canyon Lake Complex

Area Attractions - partial (most are less than 2 hours away)
- Caprock Canyons State Park
- Post Old Mill Trade Days
- Palo Duro Canyon State Park(second largest in U.S.)
- Carlsbad Caverns National Park (3.5 hrs)
- Ruidoso (skiing, gambling, and Ruidoso Downs - 4.0 hrs)

Traval Times (driving) to common destinations
- Amarillo .. 2 hrs
- Dallas .. 6 hrs
- Houston .. 10 hrs
- Albequrque .. 5 hrs
- Sante Fe .. 5 hrs
- Taos Ski Valley .. 7hrs
- Wolf Creek Pass, CO .. 10 hrs
- Flagstaff, AZ .. 9 hrs
- Denver, CO .. 10 hrs
- Oklahoma City, OK .. 6 hrs
- Tulsa, OK .. 8 hrs (Wannenmacher's gun show!!!!!!)

Economic
- No state income tax
- Local sales tax is 8.25%
- Local property tax rate is appx 2.475% inside the city, 1.975% outside.
- Average price for a previously-owned 1500 sq ft 3 bed, 2 bath, 2 car garage home in average condition is $100,000 - $125,000
- Average price for a new construction of the same home is $125,000 - $150,000.
- Average utilities for the above home would be
> Summer - Electric $175-$200, natural gas $20, water $60-$90
> Winter - Electric $60-$80, natural gas $75-$100, water $30-$50
- Gasoline price as of this morning for mid-grade (88-89 octane) unleaded is $1.55
- A gallon of milk is $2.85 - $3.25
- A dozen eggs is $1.09
- Cigarrettes (if you smoke) are $3.49 per pack, or $24.99 per carton
- Average range fee is $3.25 per hour (outdoor) or $9 per day (indoor)
- We have 4 excellent locally owned gun shops, plus two Super WalMarts, an Oshmans Sporting goods, and a new Academy Sporting Goods store.
- Average price for a pair of Wrangler or Levi's jeans is $28
- Almost every major restaurant chain has a presence here, including Krispy Kreme.
- You are never more than a few minutes away from a convenience store or major supermarket even if you live in the middle of a neighborhood.
- Lubbock is easy to navigate. Everything is laid out in nice squares with street names in alphabetic and numeric order. Heck, even my mother can navigate here.

Crime
- Very low. Most crimes are the generic silliness that you see most anywhere (vandalism, stolen lawnmowers, etc). A truly violent crime is a thankful rarity.

In General
Lubbock is a neat place. We have the population to support all the "big city" services but still have the small town feel. A local ordinance prohibits big, gaudy signs, so Lubbock is not cluttered with a bunch of ugly signs up and down the road. We have an endless loop around the entire town that allows you to get from one side of town to the other in under 20 minutes, and that's in heavy traffic (all directions in Lubbock begin with "Get on the loop...").

Lubbock sits square in the middle of the Llano Estacado (for the linquistically challenged, it's pronounced "YA-no estacado"). It's the largest area of nearly level land in the continental U.S. Translation - Lubbock is FLAT!! Outside of town it's possible to see the lights of towns 40-50 miles away.

The entire south plains is dotted with small 1500-5000 pop towns, so there is plenty of place to move if you don't like Lubbock proper. Also, Lubbock doen't fade away as you get further from the city center. It just STOPS. The edges of down are well dilineated, so you can be a country dweller on a couple of acres and still be less than 10 minutes from milk and gas.

We do have high-speed internet service. ISDN, DSL, and T1 are all available locally, although you'll have to go with some type of wireless service if you live outside the city.

Best of all, when you get your Texas CHL you can walk into any local shop, present your CHL, and GO HOME WITH YOUR GUN!!

If I can help with anything, give me a ring at 806-781-8838

Brad



Just for fun, I've included this tongue-in-cheek poke at Lubbock life for your enjoyment...


CRITICAL SURVIVAL INFORMATION FOR LIVING IN LUBBOCK

Lubbock has many houses of worship. The two largest are Jones Stadium and United Spirit Arena.

Lubbock has the annual "Taste of Lubbock". This is not to be confused with the event during dust storm season, known as the "Taste of Lubbock Landscape".

Lubbock is tolerant of all sexes, temperaments, races, creeds, colors, and sexual orientations just as long as they are a good coach.

Lubbock encourages alcohol sales by putting all the liquor stores are just outside the city limits. That way, you have to buy an extra sixer for the drive home.

The two biggests sports in Lubbock are 1) Tech Football, and 2) the drunken brawl after the game.

Lubbock has a ten-year wierdness cycle. In the early 70's it was a tornado. In the early 80's it was the expected appearance of the Virgin Mary. In the early 90's it was an earthquake (okay, so it was actually in Odessa. Close 'nuff). In the early 2000's it was a Tech professor making up stories about destroying a batch of deadly viruses. Statisticians predict the cycle will continue in the early 2000-teens when a Lubbock driver will intentionally use a turn signal.

The two hardest things to find in Lubbock are bad barbeque and a good parking space near Texas Tech.

The Lubbock paper publishes a daily prayer on the front page. It's appropriate given the fact that there isn't a prayer of finding anything else worth reading in there.

Yes, we have a newscaster who's name sounds like "Abnormal Testes".

All traffic directions begin with "Get on the Loop" and end with "Get off the Loop". Unfortunately they usually omit the middle part - "..if you survive the Loop".

It took 3 decades for Lubbock to forgive Buddy Holly for being a heathen rock & roll singer and finally honor him for being a music pioneer. Given this history, Natalie Maines doesn't stand a chance.

Lubbock has a somewhat successful minor league hockey franchise. They are pretty sure that it is because of the sport's popularity, and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it's the only sporting event in Lubbock where you can buy beer.

Sometime in the far future, when archeologists dig up the centuries-old remains of Lubbock, we are pretty sure that the Loop will still be under construction.

AND FOR DEALING WITH THE TYPICAL LUBBOCKITE.....

Lubbock is the heart and soul of West Texas. People from Amarillo, Midland, or Odessa are just wannabes. And don't you forget it.

"Lamesa" can only be properly pronounced by a native. Forget what your high school spanish teacher taught you, it's "luh-mee-suh" and everybody knows it.

Most bizarre actions can usually be accredited to the individual being from Amarillo.

An hour of thunder and lightning will produce no rain, while a small cloud north of town will dump enough water in 5 minutes to cause massive city-wide flooding.

Local TV forecasters, being both sadists and manic depressives, will warn you to run for the hills at the first sign of rain, but report 4-inch hail covering the entire south half of Lubbock as "an unconfirmed severe weather event".

It's not a dust storm until you can't see your driveway from your front door. Everything else is "just a little wind and blowing dust".

Lubbock has it's own set of traffic rules. They are as follows:
- Tailgating is mandatory.
- A person intering from a side street is required to wait until you are less than 50 yards away before pulling out into the street.
- The Loop has no beginning, no end, and the speed limit signs are there only as an amusing suggestion.
- The morning rush hour is from 7:55 to 8:05, and the afternoon rush hour is from 4:55 to 5:30. The extra time for evening rush hour is to give you time to pick up some bar-b-que for dinner.
- A traffic jam means you have to wait for the light to change twice.
- One snowflake will means you must drive 20 mph under the speed limit. Four inches of snow or ice requires that you drive 20 mph over the speed limit.
- Actually slowing down for a yellow light will usually result in a call to your insurance agent.
- Entry and exit ramps are there only as a recommendation. Feel free to use any flat spot adjacent to the roadway.


Shoot Safe!
Brad

[Iron Mike]

You might want to try New Jersey, sure we have high property taxes.state income and sales taxes and they are going to double the gas tax but to even it out we have bumper to bumper traffic cold snowy winters And some of the most restrictive,assinine gun laws in the country....What the hell amI doing here
:banghead:

[Marko Kloos]

Knoxville, TN...fits all your requirements.

1) Good weather most of the year (prefer warmer to colder)

Mild winters, hot summers, very little extreme weather.

2) Want rural setting, but relatively near (ie, 1-2 hour drive) metro center with conveniences and culture

Knoxville is pretty small-towney and green, especially if you live in one of the suburbs like Farragut or Powell. Nearest metro areas are Atlanta (2 1/2 hours to the south), and Nashville (2 1/2 hours to the west.)

3) Need high-speed internet access (ISDN OK, prefer faster)

K-town has several DSL and cable high-speed providers. Tamara's crib, for example, is far enough out in the green to have a backyard shooting range, yet she has broadband internet access. Not too shabby.

4) Shall-issue CCW or easy issuance

Check. Shall-issue CCW, good for four years.

5) No state income tax

Check. No income tax in TN, although local sales and property taxes can be somewhat high, depending on location in the state. It'll still be less of a tax load than most any locale in CA, though.

6) No laws against AR-15s, std.cap mags, Class III, etc.

TN is a class III state that allows everything as long as the Feds are OK with it....evil black rifles, regulkar capacity magazines, full-auto and suppressors, etc.

7) Low crime

East TN has fairly low crime. West and Central TN are largely rural. Just stay away from Memphis and metro Nashville.

[Pendragon]

San Antonio TX is an OK city - but we just visited Austin on Saturday and we really liked it.

Mostly because you get a fair amount of California culture but you are still in Texas.

If we stay in TX, it will not be in SA - it will be in Austin.

[hammer4nc]

Take a moment on the wild side, check out Isla Solarte, Boca del Toros, Panama;)

Link:http://www.escapeartist.com/OREQ3/Living_In_Bocas.html

I'm seriously considering moving down there.

[t-stox]

Dude maybe it's none of my business but........why should you revolve your whole life around guns? (unless it's a businesss!!) I hate it here in NY for it's gun laws but i would'nt move just based on that one issue in life?! just my 2 cents. BTW- Checkout Kentucky they have some of the best gun laws in the country withoout being totally rural and backwards.:D

[Steve Smith]

T-stox, it's not about "guns" but Liberty.

[444]

t-stox

No offense intended, but I don't think you are looking deeply enough into the issue. Guns are only a symtom, the problem is much deeper.

[Oleg Volk]

Tennessee between Nashville and Knoxville.

[harpethriver]

I agree with Oleg-one minor exception-if you like warmer weather it's a little warmer between Nashville and Memphis than Nashville to Knoxville. Let's also consider some simple factors(1)Tennessee has no state income tax(2)cost of living is very low-as is land and housing(3)there are 4 distinct seasons that change every 3 mos.(4)the political climate-and it's not just limited to "shall issue"(5)you can get that cheap land/house way out in the boonies and still be 1-2 hours from Memphis, Nashville, Atlanta, or Knoxville/Chattanooga if you don't need to be near a really big city. However...don't just take our word for it. Put down on paper which states have what you're looking for, then go for a drive. Narrow it down to 2-3, then make extended visits. One more pitch for Tennessee-most people I know live here because they want to-not because they have to!

[Steve Smith]

Ed and Oleg, just so you know, I was thrilled with your area while I was there. You might have a new resident in the next year.

[MyRoad]

Going through a similar "new place to live" search myself. Had narrowed it down to New Hampshire or Oregon, and between the two it was actually coming down to the weather... Do I want 5 months of rain, or 5 months of sub-freezing (but mostly sunny!) winter? After reading this thread, I'm going to check out Arizona again. I lived in So. Cal. back in the late 80's, and having grown up in the N/E, I never got used to all the water restrictions. Maybe it's worth another look. Other than that, I'm leaning towards Oregon. I have about 5 or 6 months to decide, so plenty of time for research.

Sven, how'd you like Arizona?

[Frank5]

My 2nd choice of a state to live would propably be VA. I almost ended up in the Richmond area.