Unique purchase...straw?


PDA






Protein anchor
October 17, 2006, 04:45 PM
OK, I live in a state where the AG has something against Glocks. Yes, I know. Anyway, what are the implications of me, say, having my brother buy a NIB Glock, try it out, perhaps decide he dislikes it then mail it to me? Now, we both have LTC's in our respective states. The hangup is MA carriers cannot purchase glock pistols that were made after 1998.

Can he gift it to me? Technically I can and do purchase firearms...I just cannot buy a small carry piece...a small framed glock (baby).
The other state is IN, BTW (in which my MA license is accepted). What are your thoughts...I have a feeling, but thought I would ask as this a different situation than is usually posted. Thanks, :)

If you enjoyed reading about "Unique purchase...straw?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
hso
October 17, 2006, 04:49 PM
Sounds like an illegal straw purchase, but the other question that comes to mind is whether your state allows you to purchase a gun that a dealer can't sell.

wdlsguy
October 17, 2006, 04:52 PM
The transfer would need to go through an FFL in MA.

Protein anchor
October 17, 2006, 04:59 PM
You know what...glocks are actually on the safe list in MA...but our AG has his own special list...that decimates the list to about 25 percent. It is his own hand picked list...as if he knows all about handguns. I know a dealer cannot transfer a gun to an individual if they cannot sell it in their store...hope this helps. Thanks, :)

Aguila Blanca
October 17, 2006, 05:27 PM
If your brother buys the gun and GIVES it to you (since when did "gift" become a verb?) outright, with no representations asked or given that you will ever in any way pay or repay or compensate him for the value thereof, then yes he can legally give it to you.

According to Federal law.

So in Federal terms it isn't a straw purchase, if both you and your brother are being honest about what "giving as a gift" means. But what difference does it make if you can't have the gun legally transferred into your possession in MA regardless of how it is obtained? Even a gift pistol has to be transferred through an FFL, so the whole gift idea is a non-starter.

Jim K
October 17, 2006, 10:34 PM
He can't send you the pistol directly; it would have to go to an MA dealer, so it would be the same as trying to buy the gun in MA.

Likewise, your brother can't give you the gun if you go to Indiana, since he would be violating federal law. The same if he were to bring the pistol to MA and give it to you.

It sounds like there is no legal way for you to get that type of gun.

If you have enough money, you could hire a lawyer; if the AG really does have a "special" list that does not have basis in law, he would be vulnerable to a lawsuit. But it would not be cheap. Do you know of the GOAL organization in MA? I suggest you contact them about the situation.

Jim

DoubleTapDrew
October 17, 2006, 10:41 PM
The AG has the authority to ban certain firearms? That sucks if true. If not, join a local oranization and have him run out of town.

Rezin
October 17, 2006, 11:25 PM
since when did gift become a verb

in 1125 A.D. See lines 5 and 6 below......





Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
gift  /gɪft/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[gift] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun 1. something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present.
2. the act of giving.
3. something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned: Those extra points he got in the game were a total gift.
4. a special ability or capacity; natural endowment; talent: the gift of saying the right thing at the right time.
–verb (used with object) 5. to present with as a gift; bestow gifts upon; endow with.
6. to present (someone) with a gift: just the thing to gift the newlyweds.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1125–75; ME < ON gift; c. OE gift (ME yift) marriage gift; akin to give]

yhtomit
October 18, 2006, 12:13 AM
Kudos: That was an interesting historical tidbit; I used to think that "gift" was a verb was a recent (and annoying) affectation, then noticed it in a few things well over 100 years old and realized that I was just being crabby :)

Question: Can you tell me the source of the Jefferson quote in your sigline? I like it, but I've also seen a lot of historical quotations that turned out to be not-so-historical, and I'm curious about the origin of that one.

Thanks!

timothy

Devonai
October 18, 2006, 12:28 AM
The AG has the authority to ban certain firearms? That sucks if true.

AG Tom Reilly discovered that he could regulate handguns using powers his office possessed to create consumer protection regulations. So, without review or consent of the legislature, he was able to severely restrict the makes and models of handguns available in the Commonwealth by making them subject to expensive and redundant safety and accuracy tests.

Manufacturers were required to submit each model for those tests, at their cost, and such models were only approved for sale if they passed both those tests and had all of the required features (such as a loaded chamber indicator). As such, some handguns that possess all of the required features have not been submitted for testing. Manufacturers like Taurus and H&K have told Massachusetts to pound sand rather than pay for the cost of the testing themselves.

Reilly is not seeking re-election. He got his butt kicked in the gubernatorial Democrat primary. However, his de facto replacement Martha Coakley is no different and is unlikely to reverse the regulations if elected. Her opponent is Larry Frisoli (http://www.goal.org/2006Elections/Frisoli/Frisoli.htm). I am not a Mass resident anymore so I don't know how close this race is. Obviously I hope he wins.

PlayboyPenguin
October 18, 2006, 12:39 AM
Awhile ago I made a post about buying my nephew a gun for his b-day. When I did I got alot of e-mails about straw purchases. I have received approval to share one of the stories as long as I do not say who he is on here.

A guy bought his nephew a firearm for his b-day. the boys mother (his sister-n-law) at first said she did not like the idea but then went along with it. Later she learned that the gun cost in the $350-$400 range and decided that was too much to spend and told him that the boy would do chores for him to show his gratitude. He agreed. Somehow word got out (he was not sure if his sister or the boy might have said something to the wrong person or he may have even said something he shouldn't have at the gun shop) and not too much later he was being charged with a straw purchase. Even though no money changed hands and it was a legitimate gift the mere appearance that the boy was working off some of the price of the gun was enough to get him charged. He is still facing serious criminal charges and possible jail time over this. Moral is...unless it is really a gift, and not just an attempt to skirt the law it is definately not worth it. Even when it is legit you better be able to prove you got nothing for it. Guilty until proven innocent.

DoubleTapDrew
October 18, 2006, 12:40 AM
AG Tom Reilly discovered that he could regulate handguns using powers his office possessed to create consumer protection regulations. So, without review or consent of the legislature, he was able to severely restrict the makes and models of handguns available in the Commonwealth by making them subject to expensive and redundant safety and accuracy tests.

Ahh, Big Brother knows best. :cuss:
I'd say move out from behind enemy lines if things don't change.

swingset
October 18, 2006, 12:46 AM
I'm confused, you WANT a Glock?

:confused:

;)

:evil:

outofbattery
October 18, 2006, 01:26 AM
If you can't live without a sub-compact Glock and are willing to pay a premium for it ( the market will charge what the market will bear) , Four Seasons has a few of them in 9mm and often one or 2 in .40 or .45 and Collector's Coin Gallery frequently has them in.Someone that just moved to MA had a LNIB 10mm version for sale on the board at my club for $550 but it sold very fast.

Protein anchor
October 18, 2006, 01:29 AM
Sure...a 'baby' glock for my pocket.
Good posts about the AG...a real a**...
Gift is a verb when written in legal documents as well.

I guess the purchase will not happen...crap. Thanks for the comments though. :)

RNB65
October 18, 2006, 01:38 AM
Me thinks that transfers of certain items across state lines by, shall we say, non-standard means, are things best not discussed on the internet.

Dr. Dickie
October 18, 2006, 07:30 AM
"Question: Can you tell me the source of the Jefferson quote in your sigline? I like it, but I've also seen a lot of historical quotations that turned out to be not-so-historical, and I'm curious about the origin of that one."

Didn't do an good search, but first thing I found was here:
http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com/notablequotes.htm

They give this for source: Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and punishment (1764).

the quote here:http://www.vtgunsmiths.com/arms/ffquote.html
says 1764 Letter and speech from T. Jefferson quoting with approval an essay by Cesare Beccari

If you enjoyed reading about "Unique purchase...straw?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!