Handgun purchase denied, what to do?


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Mumbles_45
October 17, 2006, 10:42 PM
A friend of mine bought a Sig 220 on Saturday, and since he has no CPL had a 10 day wait. Today he got a phone call from the gun shop saying his purchase was denied. He has never bought a gun before, but swears there is no reason why he should be denied. He asked me for advice on what to do, but I couldn't tell him anything useful, as neither I nor anyone I've ever known has been denied, delayed yes but denied no. So anyway, how does one go about finding out why they were denied and how do you go about getting un-denied?

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22-rimfire
October 17, 2006, 10:46 PM
Did he include his social security number when he filled out the 4473? If not and there is no reason for the denial, I would suggest that the dealer re-run the check with his social security number. The SSN in not required, but it is a way for the authorities to distinguish between people of like names.

PlayboyPenguin
October 17, 2006, 10:47 PM
Try to find out why and correct the situation. He might not be telling you everything or it might be ab error. I have had many people tell me, there is nothing on my credit that should keep me from buying your house and then say "oh yeah, I forgot that I have $45,000 in credit debt that I never payed back".

I have had similar problems in the past because a guy in Oregon City has the same first and last name as me and he has a warrant and a $500,000 judgement against him for a DUI accident.

It has caused me trouble when buying properties and has made me get denied once and delayed a couple times buying a weapon.

FTF
October 17, 2006, 11:01 PM
I think WA is a state contact for handgun purchases... but not totally sure.

I was denied once as a result of an NICS check for a handgun run through the FBI. I appealed it and had it reversed. In my case, it wasn't mistaken identity, just that the examiner in VA didn't bother to look at what I had on my record to see that it was a misdemeanor little thing, not a felony. Probably just a lazy government worker thinking i wouldn't fight it.. oh well, that's long over with... that started my hatred for the NICS and the government in general... needless to say, I now have way more evil stuff than I ever would have had they not been so stupid.

As far as your friend goes.. he may not want to tell you... make sure he knows the prohibitive criteria first off.

If he appeals through your state or the FBI, it will involve at least the following steps.

Get the contact information from the dealer who denied him... they should have a pamphlet or at least direct him to the right website.
Requesting reason for the denial from the agency that denied you. NICS accepts emails, WA state may as well.
Submission of fingerprints for verification of identity.

They will respond and tell your friend that they either made a mistake or it stands that he's denied.

If it stands, your friend must provide court documentation disputing what they have on record from him. This can usually be accomplished by calling the courthouse that they have on record as issuing a prohibitive judgement and getting certified copies of the court documents... in my case, it cost like 7 bucks. Then, mail these (providing they show you shouldn't be denied) to the agency that denied you, and they'll reverse it... if all goes well.

Of course, and I hate to use myself as an example... this will continue to happen over and over again unless that actual agency that provided the bad records corrects them. This is difficult to make happen, I'm STILL working on it. What your friend can do, if he appeals sucessfully, is enter into the VAF that I have in my sig line, or if it's through a state authority, whatever they have... that should clear up the delays/denials but will still flag if you get run for other stuff... cough, C&R, cough :D

The whole deal took 4 months for me to clear up with NICS. If you have specific questions you can also PM me... I know all about the NICS appeal process... or else just ask here, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been denied... the gov makes mistakes... a lot actually... ~1/4th of appeals submitted turn out to be mistakes...

Werewolf
October 17, 2006, 11:17 PM
Mean while any criminal that wants a gun can acquire one usually within hours of the want and there is little the goobermint can do to prevent the acquisition...

Jim K
October 17, 2006, 11:23 PM
I heard of one case where the applicant "forgot" about a couple of convictions for armed robbery. I know it is a common belief that crooks don't buy their guns in gun shops, but sometimes they are dumb enough to try.

I was almost turned down once but fortunately heard the dealer giving the wrong SSAN on the phone. He turned to me and told me I was turned down but I corrected the info while he still was on the phone, so no problem. I am really glad the gum mint didn't allow some dangerous felon to purchase a Japanese Type I rifle.

Jim

PlayboyPenguin
October 17, 2006, 11:24 PM
Mean while any criminal that wants a gun can acquire one usually within hours of the want and there is little the goobermint can do to prevent the acquisition..
I always wonder if this is true. I remember that about 8 or 9 years ago a local station here in PDX tried to show that with a sting operation. They hired people to go out and try to illegally obtain a handgun and they were never able to be successful. They even resorted to just trying to buy one from a someone off the internet and lying to them about being legal and that failed too.

DoubleTapDrew
October 17, 2006, 11:35 PM
I don't imagine Barbara Walters types have the first clue nor the connections to obtain anything from the black market. They'd probably have the same problems trying to buy drugs or anything else illegal.

Jim K
October 17, 2006, 11:38 PM
I don't know how they tried that "sting" but apparently not in the right places. (Licensed gun shops are not the right places.) I think I could get hold of a cold gun in a couple of hours if I wanted one. I used to know a cop who dealt guns out of his car; he is retired but I am sure there are others.

Jim

Mumbles_45
October 17, 2006, 11:49 PM
Thanks for all the help so far. The first thing I asked him was about, after he swore there was nothing in his backround, was whether or not he included his SSN. I forwarded FTF's post to him along with a link to the VAF thing. I'll probably see him later today and definately tomorrow.

Ala Dan
October 17, 2006, 11:49 PM
Greeting's All-

A friend of mine recently had a two day yard sale, on a Friday and a
Saturday. One of the "HOT ITEMS" people were look'in for was GUNS.
My friend owns several firearms, but NONE where for sale. He stated
that these seemed like people who may have a bit of recorded past;
such as a criminal history. And, they know that they can't legally buy
from a true FFL dealer. Moral of the story, is they left empty handed.

10-Ring
October 18, 2006, 12:13 AM
Try and find out what the reason was for the denial & find out if it can be fixed/overturned.

PlayboyPenguin
October 18, 2006, 12:20 AM
I don't know how they tried that "sting" but apparently not in the right places. (Licensed gun shops are not the right places.) I think I could get hold of a cold gun in a couple of hours if I wanted one. I used to know a cop who dealt guns out of his car; he is retired but I am sure there are others.
They tried the street, the internet, gun shows, bars, and even a school yard over the course of like a month. They even tried a crack den. I remember wondering why they knew where a crack den was and the police did not.

FTF
October 18, 2006, 12:28 AM
Hell, you can make a zip gun pretty easy if you have any degree of mechanical knowledge... screw trying to buy something illegally.

Unless you are a criminal, or one who associates with criminals, of course you won't be able to walk up to some dude on the corner of a bad neighborhood and be like "yo homie, I need a gat". They're not that stupid. They sell the guns to those they know or those they trust. If you're in the criminal element and actually commit crimes instead of being Mr. Whitey looking for a gat, you'll get what you need, and you'll get it cheap.

A good study would be to give felons out of prison 500$ and if they can get a gun in 24 hours you'll give them 1000$. Betcha you'll see the results you desire then. Criminals know where to look and how to ask.. idiots hired by dateline just look out of place and retarded.

PlayboyPenguin
October 18, 2006, 12:43 AM
A good study would be to give felons out of prison 500$ and if they can get a gun in 24 hours you'll give them 1000$. Betcha you'll see the results you desire then. Criminals know where to look and how to ask.. idiots hired by dateline just look out of place and retarded.

They did hire ex-cons and street people to do the buying. They are not stupid.

It was actually a good thing they failed. The whole point of the piece was to try and say that guns were being over manufactured and dealers and distributors were deliberately flooding the streets.

pete f
October 18, 2006, 12:51 AM
Go back to the dealer and ask him for the procedure to appeal a denial. I am not sure, but at one time, there were different numbers etc to call or contact depending on who called it it. I am not certain this is the case but the dealer should also give you his info, dealers license # etc for when you appeal.

Denials are not rare for first time buyers, Very often we seemed to get them with anyone with a relatively common name, Scott Johnson, Steve Anderson, John Smith, they all got denied or at least held it seemed. The procedure to get cleared is straight forward and it seemed effective to us as almost all the original denials were cleared up. We did have one where the NICS operator asked us to keep the guy in the store as long a s possible and said police were enroute. We all knew the guy but wondered what the heck, seemed a guy using his name as an alias had escaped a federal agency in South Dakota and they were certain it was him. A few tense minutes in the store were followed with lots of fun stories .

FTF
October 18, 2006, 12:53 AM
They did hire ex-cons and street people to do the buying. They are not stupid.

It was actually a good thing they failed. The whole point of the piece was to try and say that guns were being over manufactured and dealers and distributors were deliberately flooding the streets.

I stand corrected then... obviously I have not seen the piece and just made assumptions.

But why, then, are so many crimes committed by felons that should not have had access to these weapons, and why are the people that supplied them not under arrest or in jail? I think that they are mostly stolen... maybe it's just bad luck none of those people could get one, or maybe it was somehow biased... maybe, in real life, and not observed by the news channels, these felons wouldn't try to 'buy' a pistol, they would just rob and steal until they eventually found one... not exactly what you show on television and not be questioned by the cops.

PlayboyPenguin
October 18, 2006, 12:57 AM
they would just rob and steal until they eventually found one...
I would be willing to say you are probably right about that. I bet it is easier to steal one than buy one on the street.

MikeB
October 18, 2006, 08:46 AM
I've never been denied, but had the purchase put on hold several times. The dealer I usually deal with knows to get an actual person on the phone for me and not do the automated. This is the PA version of NICS.

False positives with the whole NIC's thing is actually quite common.

Mr White
October 18, 2006, 10:15 AM
Just buy the gun for him. :D

ir3e971
October 18, 2006, 12:24 PM
I was denied purchase of a handgun in Florida.

This came as a complete suprise as I had just returned from Iraq, and was responsible for all our units weapons and ammo...

The criteria for denial can vary state to state.

Turns out someone else with my name and birthday had a felony conviction. :fire:

So... Use the appeal process, I did, and it took 5 months to get cleared, but I made my purchase.

Now whenever I buy a gun it takes a bit (I assume they are double checking notes on my file about the problem) but I don't get turned down any more.

The longest I have had to wait since appealing (and being approved) is overnight.

The appeal process was painful, I had to be printed, and my file shipped off to the FBI, but it was worth getting past this hurdle.

Bob

romma
October 18, 2006, 12:41 PM
have been delayed before. All the good gun shops around here are out of business now. I have to go to Newington (which is about an hour away). If there is no one staffing on the weekends, I have to make the purchase, get delayed and go back again the next business day to pick up my purchase. I hope that doesn't happen again. I am getting ready to pick up a P3AT when my PPK/S gets out of the shop.

MachIVshooter
October 18, 2006, 12:59 PM
Just buy the gun for him.:D

I pray you are being sarcastic.

Desk Jockey
October 18, 2006, 02:35 PM
Your friend needs to find out what the appeals process is in his state, and follow it. If there's no legitimate reason for the denial, it's almost certainly a case of mistaken identity - same name and DOB as someone who's legitimately restricted. If the appeals process requires a request in writing, he should include as much detail as possible in his letter - SSN, previous address, status of military discharge (or state 'never served'). If the letter contains enough info that the agency can see where they made a mistake, it can only shorten the process.

After several recent purchases with no problems I was denied a few months ago, even though I included my SSN on the form. By following the appeals process (and including tons of info), I got it cleared up in the first step - about 2 weeks from denial to approval. In their letter explaining the mistake, CBI promised me that it wouldn't happen again in this state. I hope they're right about that.

Mr White
October 18, 2006, 02:47 PM
Just buy the gun for him. :D

I pray you are being sarcastic.

Well, Duh! Did the ':D' give it away?

mp510
October 18, 2006, 03:22 PM
Romma,
DPS put out an open letter back when they were cutting back on the staffed hours a few years ago. They all but EXPECTED there to be temperary denial problems, and included instructions to call in with the reference number on the next business day, and that the approval number would be issued then. On the nice side, they will usually have somebody in the office on weekends when there are (major) gunshows, ans sometimes around times when gun sales go up (ie, around the start of hunting season), but you can't count on either. Amazingly, even CT's antigun lobby believes that taking the staff out of the office was a bad idea- they said it would promote illegal gun sales.

So ya need to travel up here to NGE and Hoffman's- Don't y'all still have Ron's Guns down there? He was pricey, but his inventory was usually pretty descent.

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