What's the holy grail of firearms?


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October 18, 2006, 02:51 PM
I've been thinking of this because collectors of all kinds have a holy grail in their hobby. Baseball card collectors call it a Honus Wagner. Coin collectors may call it a 1955 doubled die penny. Car collectors may call it a gull wing Mercedes. But for those who collect guns what is it? A true Browning Colt 1911? A Dirty Harry .44 Magnum S&W? Maybe the Thompson sub-machinegun?

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October 18, 2006, 02:55 PM
Baseball cards and stamps are one thing; guns are a much more varied medium and I suppose it'd depend on what you collect - Civil War firearms? Lugers? Mosin-Nagants?

October 18, 2006, 03:03 PM
For me? The Thompson sub-gun. I have dreams in which a Thompson sporting a 60 round drum is running down a sunny beach toward me much like Bo Derek did in "10", only with AC-DC's "Whole Lotta Rosie" playing in the soundtrack instead of Ravel's "Bolero".



October 18, 2006, 03:11 PM
Personally, I wouldn't mind getting ahold of an M-3 "Grease Gun". Just because!

Texas Moon
October 18, 2006, 03:12 PM
Depends on the collector and his/her tastes.

A Walker Colt, or coffee mill Sharps are WAY up there $$$$ wise.
Any firearm with provenance to famous people also way up there.
Can you imagine what Pat garrett's SAA would be worth?
It was auctioned a few years back.

October 18, 2006, 03:15 PM
I'm guessing that one of the items that would be sought after would be one of the legendary .45 Army test Lugers.

October 18, 2006, 03:20 PM
+1 on the .45 Luger and the Walker Colt. I would add the Colt Peacemaker serial number 1, but I've heard it was located in Vermont a few years ago.

October 18, 2006, 03:21 PM
Georg Luger's 6 shot 'baby.' One only known to exist.

The 45's are down right plentiful in comparison.

Walker Colts are probably one of the most sought after American arms.

For me it's a Colt marked BAR or an 1878 Colt DA Revolver with a London barrel adress.

October 18, 2006, 03:22 PM
I'm guessing that one of the items that would be sought after would be one of the legendary .45 Army test Lugers.

You beat me to it.

Although, being a bit of a history buff (actually more like Dork), the Hamilton & Burr dueling set would make a great corner stone for any collection.

October 18, 2006, 03:26 PM
Bonz, that'd be a good set to add. I've seen exact replicas but are the originals around somewhere?

October 18, 2006, 03:30 PM
I'm guessing that one of the items that would be sought after would be one of the legendary .45 Army test Lugers.
Followed closely by the HK P7M7 (http://www.hkpro.com/p7m7.htm).

Thing is neither gun is "sought after" as they are all accounted for and not for sale.

Harry Paget Flashman
October 18, 2006, 03:32 PM
A 100% reliable KelTec P3AT right out of the box. I tried two and gave up. I'm sticking with the J-frame.

October 18, 2006, 03:37 PM
A Colt Thompson, pre-mil model, 100 round drum.

October 18, 2006, 03:37 PM
For me? The Thompson sub-gun. I have dreams in which a Thompson sporting a 60 round drum is running down a sunny beach toward me much like Bo Derek did in "10", only with AC-DC's "Whole Lotta Rosie" playing in the soundtrack instead of Ravel's "Bolero".



October 18, 2006, 03:41 PM
The Pistols
Others have attributed Hamilton's apparent misfire to the hair-triggered design of one of the Wogdon dueling pistols, both of which survive today. One of the pistols has a flint-lock firing mechanism and the other has been converted from the original flint to a percussion firing mechanism. When asked by Pendleton before the duel if he would have the "hair-spring" pistol, Hamilton reportedly replied "not this time."[23]

The pistols belonged to Hamilton's brother-in-law, John Barker Church, who was a business partner of both Hamilton and Burr. He purchased the pistols in London in 1797. They had previously been used in a 1799 duel between Church and Burr, in which neither man was injured. In 1801, Hamilton's son, Philip, used them in a duel in which he died. In 1930 the pistols were sold to the Chase Manhattan Bank, now preserved by JPMorgan Chase & Co.

October 18, 2006, 04:01 PM
Finnish marked GP-35 "Browning Hi Power"!

October 18, 2006, 04:01 PM
A genuine Colt Walker Revolver is #1 on my list, not that I'll ever have one.

October 18, 2006, 04:05 PM

MY Unicorn would be this...

Winchester model of 1894 with a serial number of 1

Not much in some eyes, but the Winchester will always be THE rifle. :)


October 18, 2006, 04:08 PM
A nice looking glock. That would be a find! :D

Actually, i think an HK G11 would be the holy grail of guns

October 18, 2006, 04:09 PM
I'm not that kind of a collector, but you'd have to narrow it down to a historical period, country, manufacturer, or designer, I suppose.

I once saw a case of Confederate pistols at a Civil War show that contained some beautiful specimens. Some had sequential serial numbers. They were not for sale by the older gentleman who was displaying them. They represented a lifetime of collecting.


October 18, 2006, 04:12 PM

I'm sure there have been more expensive guns, its fun to go to the greg martin auction site to see the highlights and top lots from their auctions. Frequently go into 6 figures. Next auction is Nov. 6.

http://www.gmartin-auctions.com/gma/archive.html :what:

October 18, 2006, 05:03 PM
I think a registered mag, short barrel, NIB with all the goodies would be about perfect, at least for me. Joe

October 18, 2006, 05:23 PM
Gas trap Garand.

October 18, 2006, 05:24 PM
I have several "holy grails".

1. A Colt Monitor, which is a version of the Browning BAR automatic rifle that
was sold legaly to civilians before the passage of the National Firearms Act.

2. A new in the box, unissued MG-42 GPMG with it's issued tripod and optical
sight. And a pallet of linked 7.92X57 ammo. :)

3. One of the few Australian Lithgow L1A1s with coachwood furniture that
were imported just before Pappa Bush banned further importation by Presidential decree.:mad:

October 18, 2006, 05:43 PM
There is nothing rare or exotic out there that I wouldn't rather have the cash equivalent for to burn on my rod & gun club, ammunition or other pursuits with my family, even if I had a spare half million laying around.

I'd rather collect skills or memories than objects.

October 18, 2006, 06:01 PM
For me? The Thompson sub-gun. I have dreams in which a Thompson sporting a 60 round drum is running down a sunny beach toward me much like Bo Derek did in "10", only with AC-DC's "Whole Lotta Rosie" playing in the soundtrack instead of Ravel's "Bolero".

I know I may be being picky, but Thompsons came with 20 round mags and had drum mags available in either 50 or 100 round quantities. No such thing as a 60 rounder.

Nevertheless, as the "Holy Grail" of firearms....excellent choice!:D

October 18, 2006, 06:21 PM
The M-60 I carried for a VERY brief time in MCT, or a Thompson..... :D

October 18, 2006, 06:45 PM
Zundfogle beat me to it.

HK P7 M7

Heck, his post with link was the first picture I'd ever seen of it.

October 18, 2006, 07:02 PM
Original Winchester 1895 in .405...or any English double in .470 NE

October 18, 2006, 07:05 PM
I'd have to say a Seecamp in 32acp. Gold plated, with an engraving of a moose on it because that's most certainly what it would be used for.

Second choice would be that chopped down minigun from the Resident Evil 2 movie that large gentleman carried. Along with a Bowflex to build up my own guns so I could carry it.

Or a pair of MP5K's with all the fixins


October 18, 2006, 07:18 PM
I would say the holy grail for me would be a complete WWI Pederson Device with the device, the ammo, the holster, the rifle with the cut, and the magazine. There were reportedly only 100 devices that survived the furnace after the war. The other parts are also extremely elusive.http://img14.exc.cx/img14/3007/pg11.my.th.jpg

October 18, 2006, 07:31 PM
You can't stumble across it in a coffee can anymore , but I'd like to have an old 32 like this for plinking off the backporch over morning coffee .

If you look on the main page , they claim to have Robert Johnson's Gibson L1 guitar too . http://momentsintime.com/Guns%20of%20Hitler.htm

October 18, 2006, 07:55 PM
For me it would be a mint condition, WWII, BAR

October 18, 2006, 08:02 PM
Actively sought out and bought several I would consider the "Holy Grail" in their repective catagories. Each are the top of the line with legendary reputations in their own right.

-Browning Renaissance High Power

-Colt Gold Cup from the Colt Custom Shop

-Winchester 52B Sporter, 99% condition, virgin receiver-never drilled & tapped.

-Browning Superposed, High Grade with gorgeous engraving and wood.

October 18, 2006, 08:11 PM
a real Russian Dragunov. not a modern Saiga or a Romanian or Chinese copy.

October 18, 2006, 08:54 PM
Mine s still the PSG1, but the worship wanes as the years go by. I am slowly picking off the lesser ones, though, before they get financially out of reach like the HK.

October 18, 2006, 09:07 PM
I think getting your hand on the Guns that Wild Bill or JohN Wesly Hardin used would be pretty interesting.

Anyone can buy a Kimber or even some other kind of production model, but getting a gun that Davy Crocket used at the Alamo or something required a measure of fate...

October 18, 2006, 09:16 PM
For me it would be an original Confederate Whitworth rifle w/ telescopic sight, with a complete history.

October 18, 2006, 09:21 PM
The rifle I lost in the gulf in 1991. It was never fired and only dropped once!!!! (hey, I was unconscious, it's not like I surrendered!!!!)

I'm sure that the Dept of the Navy guys who questioned me about it would like to know where it is as well.

October 18, 2006, 10:20 PM
Gee, I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Glock 7. :neener:

October 18, 2006, 10:41 PM
Definately a Thompson sub gun..................BUT :what:

I want THE 1921 Thompson (usually incorrectly ID'd as a 1928) with the 50 round drum that Winston Churchill is holding in that famous photograph.........

October 18, 2006, 11:30 PM
Hammer is that a walker Colt?

english kanigit
October 19, 2006, 12:28 AM
Or a pair of MP5K's with all the fixins

Does that include the pictured 'munitions portage device'?

Original DeLisle Carbine
OSS Suppressed HighStandard
Stetchkin Machine Pistol
Solothurn S18/1000
Model of 1941 Johnson Light Machine
Finn marked DP-28

Pick one and add an ammunition plant to go with it...


October 19, 2006, 12:52 AM
Winston Churchill's Thompson SMG:

Lewis & Clark's air rifle (recently proven such and now on display at a military museum):
(See a recent NRA Rifleman magazine for details.)

October 19, 2006, 12:58 AM
my absolute Holy Grail is a Beretta 93-R. Last time I heard of one being sold, it went for $30K at auction... :(

October 19, 2006, 01:02 AM
That may be a Colt Dragoon, or a Walker.

However, I know a gentleman who recently acquired a verified, genuine Walker, issued to B Co., Texas Rangers, in SHOOTABLE condition!!!

October 19, 2006, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by DoubleTapDrew
Or a pair of MP5K's with all the fixins

Does that include the pictured 'munitions portage device'?

Yeah as long as we are dreaming, that would be "the fixins" :p

I have to agree that there is something definitely old skool cool about the tommy gun. For some reason I never liked the ones with the wood vertical foregrip but the standard ones like what Tom Hanks' character in Saving Private Ryan carried was just awesome looking.


Put those in your hands and smoke 'em :evil:

October 19, 2006, 02:31 AM
An original Walther P-38. Not the p-5 copy, but one that a German soldier carried, preferably a nazi--just adds to the coolness, antiquity factor. Definitely in shootable condition.

October 19, 2006, 03:00 AM
I'm going to have to agree with one of the original U.S. Army .45ACP test Lugers.

October 19, 2006, 03:36 AM
I forget what the model name is and everything, but I'm sure most of you folks know about it and can excuse my laziness.

The WWI .50cal anti-tank rifle...ouch. I saw an auction for one that went for 30k.

Mark Whiteman
October 19, 2006, 04:11 AM
Phased Plasma rifle in the 40-Watt range.

October 19, 2006, 04:24 AM
A real Singer 1911.

October 19, 2006, 07:10 AM
It's my dream and if I want a 60 round drum, I'll *have* a 60 round drum!

Biker... who is not always right but is never wrong.

Tom C.
October 19, 2006, 07:54 AM
A couple of details on the Hamilton-Burr dueling pistols.
Most dueling pistols were smooth bore with no sights. Hamilton had a pair of .45 cal. smooth bore dueling pistols. He borrowed his brother-in-laws because they were .50 cal., rifled, with sights.
Prior to the Bicentenial in 1976, the pistols were taken out and taken apart to facilitate making a duplicate pair. When they were taken apart, it was found they had a single set trigger mechanism. Hamilton must have known about that, while Burr didn’t. That changes history.

October 19, 2006, 08:07 AM
I would want any rifle in good condition that was carried by a militia member during the revolutionary war. That to me would symbolize the 2nd amendment and its true meaning. I had an ancestor who fought in the PA milita against the Indians during the revolution. I wish I had whatever he carried.

October 19, 2006, 08:22 AM
I'll agree with the HK G11, that would top my list.

October 19, 2006, 08:37 AM
1.) A real honest to God Russian AKS 74 U new unissued.

2.) I will go with above poster a Revolutionary War musket used in battle, and decent shape.

3.) The pistol that Booth shot Lincoln with (dont know why but I think that would just be cool to have, guns with infamous histories are neat ;) ).

October 19, 2006, 08:38 AM
A .46 Automatic Pistol. ;)

October 19, 2006, 08:41 AM
JMB's first prototype automatic pistol itself? Or the first actual hand-tooled 1911 proof-of-concept prototype?

October 19, 2006, 10:26 AM
A beat all to hell Smith and Wesson Model 10 with a four inch barrel.
There were so few of them made, I just can't find one!:evil:

October 19, 2006, 10:42 AM
A Union Switch and Signal 1911 A1

October 19, 2006, 10:51 AM
My dream gun............Any handgun formerly presented to the President of the United States..............from any manufacture.!

October 19, 2006, 11:03 AM
sgt yorks 1911
anything used by a MOH winner
anything used by Chesty Puller or Black Jack Pershing

October 19, 2006, 11:36 AM
Tough question!

There are some guns that I feel privileged to have handled:

1) One of the surviving pre-1911s from the first Military Trials.

2) John Browning's favorite Single Action Army, cal. 38-40, sold to him directly from Colt.

3) The Colt New Service "Fitz Special" built for Rex Applegate by JH Fitzgerald.

4) Former NYPD Stake-Out Squad member Jim Cirillo's .38 Super 1911, compete with electrical tape on the grip for "stickiness."

5) The pistols used in the filming of one of my favorite movies, THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES.

6) My father's 1911A1 Remington Rand that he carried in the South Pacific.

Those guns carry Big Juju!

Michael B

October 19, 2006, 11:44 AM
I imagine it varies on what you collect, but from what guns have cost in publicized high dollar auctions it seems like Lugers and SAA's seem to bring in the most $$$.

October 19, 2006, 11:56 AM
Biker I had a Thompson that had 30 round mags. Tape two together and your dream has come true my man!!:D


October 19, 2006, 02:54 PM
An 1873Colt. I don't know if Colt made more than the prototype, looked like a Peacemaker grafted to a Walker barrel or something...

Any firearm once owned by John Wayne that he used in a movie.

October 19, 2006, 02:59 PM
My realistic holy grail gun is a S&W registered magnum

October 19, 2006, 03:18 PM
The Maxim machinegun, developed during the Civil War was the first fully-automatic firearm ever made. It was the epitome of weapons innovation. It would be incredible to even shoot one, let alone own one.

October 19, 2006, 03:34 PM
It's my dream and if I want a 60 round drum, I'll *have* a 60 round drum!Biker... who is not always right but is never wrong.

I hear ya!:D

I prefer the 120 round drums myself.......:neener:

October 19, 2006, 04:03 PM
A g36K

I want one badddddddddddddddddd.

Realisitcally a Sig 220 in 38 super with an American style release.

October 19, 2006, 04:04 PM
AK-47 with one of the early milled steel receivers. As long as I'm dreaming, unissued and unfired. And another one, so I won't feel guilty about firing the unfired one.

Scaramanga's Golden Gun (still dreaming :rolleyes: )

Although, I suppose the real holy grail gun is the one you have in your hand when you really need it.

ETA - The WSG2000 (http://www.hkpro.com/wsg2000.htm) and CAWS (http://www.hkpro.com/CAWS.htm) from H&K.

October 19, 2006, 04:18 PM
Lets see i would want these three, the best sub machine guns. By looks and coolness factor

1. Tommy gun
2. Mp5 (not sure which one)
3. FN P90

All never fired and all the goodies i can get my hands on, and legal to own and shoot and open carry/ccw.

October 19, 2006, 04:29 PM
Unattainable - any gun owned by my hero, Teddy Roosevelt

Attainable, but unlikely - Grease gun

Attainable, and likely - M1A.

Of course, these are just my holy grails, so take it for what it's worth.

October 19, 2006, 04:42 PM
i'd have to say p90 (real one, not the marketed crud),
a tavor marksman with the standard mars sight and a leupold Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm MR/T M2 which might happen if i can get into a good enough unit as a marksman in tsahal,
and my kayaim caracal design which i don't have the money or materials to build and probably never will.

October 19, 2006, 05:01 PM
My no. 1 would be the cased pair of Colts presented to the Czar by A. Lincoln. They are pic'd in the Colt "dream book" No.2 would be a Winchester 73, 1 of 1000. or any weapon that could be proven to have been owned and used by Gen. Wm. T. Sherman.
A BAR would be OK also.:)

October 19, 2006, 05:01 PM

Semi-automatic 14.5mm Soviet anti-tank rifle.

Refrigerators would fear me...

October 19, 2006, 05:10 PM
REMINGTON LEE MODEL 1885 NAVY RIFLE in 45-70. Bolt action, mag fed rifle. Only about 1200 made I think. Seems like a interesting rifle to own.

October 19, 2006, 05:44 PM
Bren gun, mint condition.

October 19, 2006, 05:48 PM
The death star.

October 19, 2006, 06:08 PM
Sorry, the Death Star was destroyed. Maybe some of the meteortites survived, though.

October 19, 2006, 06:25 PM
Any BHP...


October 19, 2006, 06:29 PM
My Dad's Browning pump-action .22.... he won't part with it, and it's willed to my uncle, not any of my siblings or myself.

October 19, 2006, 06:35 PM
The Holy Grail of firearms? Probably those Glock revolvers.

October 19, 2006, 07:35 PM
A Czech ZH29 and a VZ52/57. The ZH29 I will probably never see [or afford] but the VZ52/57 I will find eventually.

Mark Whiteman
October 19, 2006, 08:17 PM
Maybe one of Gunny Hathcock's rifles?

October 19, 2006, 08:20 PM
The Luger that killed hitler? :cool:

Honestly that would be the most expensive gun in the world. I would imagine it so at least.

Or perhaps Rommel's sidearm too. That would be neat.

Mark Whiteman
October 19, 2006, 08:24 PM
Hitler didn't shoot himself with a Luger. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was some sort of pipsqueak pocket pistol.

October 19, 2006, 08:53 PM
Any Holland and Holland double rifle in .375 H&H or bigger best in nitro or gibbs cal. Nuff said.....

October 19, 2006, 09:49 PM
An original mint-condition 4-bore double rifle.

October 19, 2006, 11:38 PM
How about this?


And only $500.00!!! You can buy that stuff here! (http://bronzecannon.net/chinese_cannons.htm)

Green Lantern
October 19, 2006, 11:53 PM
I agree with those who say that you're likely to get a different answer from most any gun owner.

For me, it would be an original ASP pistol, the highly-modified S&W 9mm auto rumored(?) to be issued to a number of "intelligence spooks" around some 2 decades ago.

My "personal" (IE, I want it, but it dosen't have the rare/historical significance of most others mentioned) Holy Grail would be a Titanium-Gold Desert Eagle! :cool: Oooooh, yeah!!!

October 19, 2006, 11:54 PM
P7M7 are what myths are made of :cool:

October 20, 2006, 03:39 AM
I believe Hitler shot himself with a Walther PPK.

October 20, 2006, 03:56 AM
MG-42, MG-34, MP-44 and BAR 1918A1, and a G-36

October 20, 2006, 08:24 AM

The ever rare and elusive: BURGO


And I've got TWO of 'em! :barf:

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

Phil DeGraves
October 20, 2006, 09:59 AM
By Holy Grail, I am assuming you mean something that may be legendary (in other words, it may not have existed at all!) and one of a kind. In that case, at least a candidate for the Holy Grail of firearms would have to be Wyatt Earp's Colt "Buntline".

Phil DeGraves
October 20, 2006, 10:12 AM
"The Maxim machinegun, developed during the Civil War was the first fully-automatic firearm ever made. It was the epitome of weapons innovation. It would be incredible to even shoot one, let alone own one."

The Maxim Machine Gun was developed in the 1880's, not during the War of Northern Aggression. The Vandenburg Gun, The Gatling gun, the Billinghurst Requa Gun, the Williams Rapid Fire Gun, and the Agar "Coffee Mill" Gun, were the "machine guns" during the Civil War, although technically, they were all hand cranked. The Maxim was the first true machine gun.

October 20, 2006, 11:39 AM
The be-all and end-all (literally!)---for me is a GE minigun....IIRC, there was a thread while back where there actually was one for sale---Serial #001---asking price $300,000.

P.S. RE: the automotive Holy Grail---Mercedes Gullwing, certain Ferraris (SWB Daytona, among others), Deusenburgs and Cords (Even 1971 Pontiac GTO "Judge" convertible, only 17 made)---All rare and desirable (and $$$$$$) BUT, the true automotive Holy Grail?-Bugatti Royale. Arguably THE most exotic and rare (7 made, 6 exist, all different body styles)---Last sale of one I know about was, IIRC $30 million.

October 21, 2006, 01:47 AM
BUT, the true automotive Holy Grail?-Bugatti Royale. Arguably THE most exotic and rare (7 made, 6 exist, all different body styles)---Last sale of one I know about was, IIRC $30 million.Evidently there are more holy grails in the automotive world. Last I heard the 1957 Ford F code Thunderbird (Factory Paxton supercharged) had attained "most collectable" status meaning hardest to find and most desirable.

Another of the holy grail guns would be a 2-bore. I've heard they existed, but have yet to read anything substantial about them. Recoil, of course would be horrendous.

Stainless Chili
October 21, 2006, 03:21 AM
The Holy Grail is being truely satisfied with what you have.

Admiring other pieces is fine, and contemplation of the next purchase is understandable, but when one can look at their collection of one or a dozen, and say "Well, I've come full circle, and everything I now own is important", then you have reached nirvana. I'm in the process of selling a rifle, but it was only after long internal debate. I may thin one more piece, but other than that, I feel I am happy with what I have.

The gun manufacturers made their money. Buyers got good deals. I learned and am content. Everybody is happy.

Buyers especially liked me because I'll buy new, put 500 rounds through it, and sell it for 30% off. Call me silly, but I always preferred new, because if it turned out to be a keeper, I'd intimately know it's history. I've have three of those, loveable and handsome they are, out of several dozen. And several that were probably dang close to NIB.

October 21, 2006, 04:46 AM
Gavrilo Princip's FN Model 1910.

October 21, 2006, 10:04 AM
Osama's AK underfolder.

October 21, 2006, 11:52 AM
Osama's AK underfolder.

All the vids I have seen of him he has a Krink side folder.

Anyways, since us lowly citizens of Kansas can't have anything FA, which bars my minigun holy grail.

The Holy Grail for me, that isn't banned in Kansas, would be a military bring back Russian SVD all matching with accessories and papers to make it legal. I have an NDM-86 and it's 1 of only 1000, but a military bring back SVD is almost non-existent.

October 21, 2006, 07:44 PM
Actually, i think an HK G11 would be the holy grail of guns

darn, beat me to it.


October 22, 2006, 02:59 AM
proly a colt single action army, in pristin condition, or with verification, used on a battlefield in the late 1800's.

October 22, 2006, 03:09 AM
oh wait, there is another one. There is a rifle out there, made about 30 or 40 years ago, by some Nasa and other rocket engineers. The company was a two man show for this thing, that was going to sell them. Then a larger company came about to buy them out. then they did nothign with the rifles or designs, but want to destroy them I think. The origional two guys then set about buying the company back, plus buying back the 9 rifles they had made. One I think was given to John Wayne, and another I wanna say was given to Gvr. Connely , i believe.
there was one up for raffle at a site, about 1 year ago , with the box and all relevant papers to authenticate it. They Said that the current market value was 50k. This rifle was not beautiful to look at, but everything was designed with the highest quality metals and laminates, and specs were to the thousanths of inches, as you would expect from Nasa engineers. it was also supposed to be sick accurate. I think they were called Omega rifles, or some other space type name.

October 22, 2006, 10:54 AM
Evidently there are more holy grails in the automotive world. Last I heard the 1957 Ford F code Thunderbird (Factory Paxton supercharged) had attained "most collectable" status meaning hardest to find and most desirable.

Yeah, there's actually alot of VERY low production cars out there, that bring good money at auction. But I stick with the Bugatti, because they have brought the highest prices ever achieved (and are as much works of art, as they are automobiles), and each one is unique.

I actually "owned" a (possibly) even rarer car at one time...A 1969 MGC with an automatic transmission. They built 4000 MGC roadsters, and 4000 GTs between 1965 and 1969. Many of the GTs were automatics, but almost NONE of the roadsters. A guy that I found that worked for British Leyland (during that period) said that, to his knowledge, there were NO roadsters built with an automatic transmission. However, I found at least one other, and the owner said he had found that there were actually 4 made (between 1965 an 1969, but he didn't know when each was made). Sad part is, my ex-wife and I bought it (for her) before we were married---and it was titled in her name. So, when we got divorced, she got it, and since I was in the process of restoring it (it was mostly disassembled) I'm sure she sold it for a song.

But even considering the rarity, it wasn't worth what many other "collectible" cars are worth. Supply and demand. Probably worth many thousands today, but not in the same league as some others.

Sorry to go OT, back to our regularly scheduled program.

October 22, 2006, 01:39 PM
A Weatherby rifle that was made by J.P.Sauer and Sohn.
Really, I don't know. Depends on who this question is directed too.

The Grand Inquisitor
October 22, 2006, 02:53 PM

Last time I checked, some of the small parts of the FG42 were going for 3.-5 THOUSAND...much less the whole rifle.

In fact, I think the only one I've ever seen full in a picture was a NFA model that was $35,000.http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/cntrtop/Meyer-FG42-.jpg



October 22, 2006, 02:59 PM
just picked up an all origional 28-2 with magnas

i would love to have an origional registered magnum!!

October 22, 2006, 03:09 PM
I just want a decent auto.....or 2....(price is way outta my range for a hobby)
and a springfield professional 1911...

October 22, 2006, 03:19 PM
I wasnt there but i believe the original cup would be a
rather common earthenware used during the period. as
such the holy grail in the firearm world should be the
common firearm used in a most memorable occasion by
you. I hope that in your collection, you have one that
youll never part for any money in the world. not yet there?
then you havent found your holy grail.

October 22, 2006, 04:19 PM
cvb: maybe Sgt York's pistol would fit that description? Or one of the guns at the OK Corral? A Trapdoor Springfield from the Little Big Horn?

October 22, 2006, 05:16 PM
a tommy gun in prestine condition

Gen.Patton's SA ivory handled revolver

Wyatt Earps "buntline"

any John Wayne gun

and gun used by a Confederate soldier in battle

October 22, 2006, 09:35 PM
A .45 ACP Luger.

Navy joe
October 22, 2006, 10:19 PM
For me, it is a M1941 (or civilian sporter) Johnson rifle sitting at some country yard sale with some folks that don't watch gun prices.

October 25, 2006, 03:59 AM
A real AKS-74U with plum furniture, 45 round mag and GP-30 attached underbarrel with tac sling.
That would be cool!!!

Buddy Rabbit
October 25, 2006, 01:23 PM
Maybe this one . . .

October 25, 2006, 02:25 PM
An original LeMat Revolver, how about the first MP-44 ever produced? The prototype .276 Pederson rifle is one too. Most anything rare or with extreme historical significance is important and therefore valuable.

Adam Selene
October 25, 2006, 04:44 PM
I would not mind a certain rail gun I have run in the "future".

October 25, 2006, 05:56 PM
1911 made in 1910.

The first Colt in 45. It is very rare I think only a few exsist. That would be the Holy Grail of guns.

Or a NIB Singer 1911.

Seven High
October 26, 2006, 07:30 AM
For me the Holy Grail would be a GENUINE Colt or Smith and Wesson Air Crewman .38spl revolver. :)

October 26, 2006, 09:42 AM
Yeah, grails come and grails go, but Registered Magnums are FOREVER. Make mine a 3.5 inch, preferrably the one that was given to J. E. Hoover.

Grand Inquisitor beat me to the FG 42.

Nobody has mentioned a Solothurn A/T rifle, prominently featured in "Unintended Consequences".

Regarding the others that only cost an arm and a leg, but are generally available to anyone with the price: You can get anything you want. You just can't get EVERYthing you want.

October 26, 2006, 09:45 AM
FG-42 or G41/G43 does it for me.

And a Luger.

October 26, 2006, 09:58 AM
Les Baer Ultimate Master 1911 with the 1.5" @50 yds. accurizing package... mmmm, mmmm, mmmm!!:D

Flintlock Tom
October 26, 2006, 04:45 PM
An original Ferguson Rifle, (breechloading flintlock) of course.

Buddy Rabbit
October 27, 2006, 12:18 AM
Does anybody know anything about the (appears to be) 1911 on Patton's hip in post 119 ? . . . I have not seen it in any other photograph.

It appears to have stars on the grip.

I usually see him with the revolver.

Mark Whiteman
October 27, 2006, 01:04 AM
He carried a Colt 1903 and a revolver both. I don't recall what the revolver was. Both with Ivory grips.

October 30, 2006, 10:28 AM
A Kimber Thompson M1A1.

October 30, 2006, 05:23 PM
I envision a matched Korth Combat Magnum and a Korth 9 m/m semi-auto. Not unobtainable, but very near the non-affordium stage of my recreation fund.

.45 AUTO
December 21, 2006, 01:27 AM
I would probably have to say the Maxim Machine gun, Number 1 on NRA's ten guns that changed the world.

December 21, 2006, 02:20 AM
I like the balance and feel of single-action revolvers.

I like the quickness and simplicity of operation of double-action revolvers.

I'd like to find a revolver that has the same profile and balance as the Ruger Blackhawk, but the double-action found in, for example, an S&W.

In other words, a double-action cowboy gun.

I've seen some that were "close" but the shape and balance were different.

Otherwise, +1 Stainless Chili.

December 21, 2006, 07:10 AM
1866 Henry Repeating Arms .44 rimfire

December 21, 2006, 07:42 AM
The holy grail: An engraved Rohm!

:what: :eek: :D

Seriously, for me I have several:

1. Any Rigby bolt action, especially the 7mm.
2. The .45 Luger I've heard and dreamed about for so many years.
3. Pre WWII era Thompson with drum magazine. ("Maybe I'm off my hinges, but I believe you. But my Tommy gun don't!")
4. Full auto BAR

December 21, 2006, 08:22 AM
Grail, Holy, Personal, My:

Guns with no history, just that I've owned and am forever kicking my own butt for getting rid of:

M1917 Colt revolver in 45ACP/45AR with Pachmayr grip filler. Even though it had "Property of US Gov't" on the underside of the barrel, it was mine, and is still mine, even though someone else may own it. Lotsa memories... :(

Thumbhole-stocked Remington .22LR target rifle, hooked adjustable butt plate, movable palm rest, full set of Redfield sights which I donated to a local Boy Scout Troop... and never even got a thank-you for. :fire:

Colt aluminum-framed Commander in .38 Super on which I had my initials (four letters) engraved in script on the slide. Could've sold a horse for the quick cash I needed at the time.

Should've sold the damned horse... :banghead:

December 21, 2006, 10:55 AM
The Maxim machinegun, developed during the Civil War was the first fully-automatic firearm ever made. It was the epitome of weapons innovation. It would be incredible to even shoot one, let alone own one.

You might be thinking of the Gatling gun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatling_gun

Maxim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_gun

December 21, 2006, 11:33 AM

December 21, 2006, 11:34 AM
For McCall911.

2. The .45 Luger I've heard and dreamed about for so many years.

Got lots of money? You too can have one.:evil: You might get the little one too.

February 5, 2007, 04:46 AM
A Gold AK-47 From Irak!

February 5, 2007, 05:05 AM
Whilst It'll never happen, my "Holy Grail" of collecting would be an Owen Gun.

February 5, 2007, 06:13 AM
Ma Deuce--there are plenty of them around, and they are even occasionally found in civilian hands, but they are so absurdly pricey these days, and they are just too awesome.

February 5, 2007, 06:17 AM
I'd be happy with a NIB year 1 Colt 1911 :)

February 5, 2007, 06:36 AM
The thing about these "Holy Grail" guns is .....As soon as I designate a gun such, I seem to find it, and then I must buy it! This has happened time and again.

At present, my attainable Holy Grail gun is a round butt three inch pinned barrel S&W Model 10. I would also like to get my hands on one of the crushed Victory Models (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/08/call-me-crazy.html), just to have.


February 5, 2007, 08:11 AM
• MP-40
• Glock 18
• Sgt. York’s ’03 Springfield
• GSGT Hathcock’s Winchester 70
• Patton’s pistol
• John Wayne’s rifle from Liberty Valance

Lastly, :mad:
the Colt 1911A1 I sold to by my first duty sidearm, since the employer would not allow SA pistols:fire: .

February 5, 2007, 08:37 AM
Robert E. Lee's Colt 1849 Pocket Pistol.

Working Man
February 5, 2007, 08:52 AM
For me it is currently a 10mm OMEGA in LNIB condition.
I have only ever seen 1 OMEGA for sale (IIRC) and it was a .45... but I would have bought that as well if I could have.

February 5, 2007, 08:58 AM
It was a Korth, but I had one for a week, made $2k on it, and don't miss it.
The Bren Ten from Miami Vice TV series would be sweet. The pre-1911 gets another vote from me. I'd like to get the one tested by the Navy in 1908.

February 5, 2007, 09:12 AM
My vote would be for the .45 Luger.
2 were made.
1 was destroyed during testing (1903 - ish)
1 still in a private collection recently sold for $950,000

February 5, 2007, 09:44 AM
I don't know why but this pistol has always intriqed me. I think it was from the way it was referanced in the movie PATTON with George C Scott.

Patton's Trusted Sidearm
Throughout his military career, General Patton had the opportunity to test and use many different handguns. However, one of his favorite sidearms was a .45 caliber Colt Model 1873 Single Action Army Revolver with a 4 3/4" barrel. He acquired the pistol in 1916 while he was serving with General Pershing in the Punitive Expedition seeking to capture Pancho Villa.

This was no ordinary Colt. It was silver plated, extensively engraved by Colt's chief engraver, Cuno Helfricht, and was fitted with ivory grips carved with the intertwined initials "GSP." This revolver today is proudly displayed at the General Patton Museum in Fort Knox, Kentucky.

Shortly after receiving the revolver, George Patton had to rely on the revolver in a shootout with Julio C�rdenas, Pancho Villa's bodyguard, and other followers of Villa. It was May 14, 1916. Lt. George S. Patton was leading a caravan of three automobiles on a journey to purchase food for the troops. When they stopped at a ranch and approached the ranch house, the Americans came under attack. George Patton fired back with his revolver and later recounted the details to his father -- "I fired back five times with my new revolver and one of them ducked back in the house. I found out later that this was C�rdenas and that I had hit both he and his horse."

February 5, 2007, 10:01 AM
The Holy Grail of my collection would be a facility with a large chunk of land to shoot all of these wonderful toys and pieces of history that everybody else has collected. It would be free of nuissance lawsuits, idiots, suburban sprawl, no zoning conflicts, or rare endangered species making a home on the range. The ones that do wander on are considered fair game, and several recipes are available. The temprature would be about 65 degrees with constant sunshine, but none coming into your eyes. There would also be several berms around the property dedicated to an area of firearms.
You have an 1803 Napoleonic cannon? No problem, we have the range for you. You can fire it at the robotic reenactors.

You have an original Ma Deuce 50 Caliber machine gun? No problem, we have the range for you, complete with original WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm fortifications. Just press the button for the scenario and battle of the war you want.

You like shooting Blunderbusses? No problem. A high breeze keeps the smoke away from you.

You want to plink with .22s? Over here. The steel targets automatically reset themselves.

Insert firearm here: we have a range for you.

THAT's my idea of a Holy Grail. A place where I can shoot anything I want.

February 5, 2007, 02:10 PM
Famous or Infamous, There are some of each I think would be fascinating.
A gun carried by Al Capone, Lucky Luciano, or John Gotti. Can't explain why but one of these infamous firearms would be cool. Similarily one of Dillengers or Clyde Barrow. I might also Like to have one of the rifles from the Little Big Horn, Wounded Knee, or from Jesse James, Pat Garret or Billy the Kid.
I think to have one of the firearms from Any of the Beach Assults of the Italian Campaign in WWII would be a wet dream since My Father Survived the Italian Campaign. An actual issue not one that may or may not have been.

February 5, 2007, 08:10 PM
My realistic holy grail gun is a Winchester M 71 deluxe.

Nonrealistic? Sky's the limit!

Let's see... an 1875 or so Remington rolling block #1 sporter to match the new one I bought this last summer.

Townsend Whelen's 1895.

Buffalo Newton Rifle in .35 Newton

British double rifle in one of the great flanged safari cartridges.

Remington-Hepburn in .44-77

Ballard in .32-40

The Burnside Ninja
February 5, 2007, 08:28 PM
For practical purposes and firepower, I'd say the WA2000 by Walther. It is a sniper rifle BUILT on the idea of being a sniper rifle FIRST and FOREMOST. It is seen in many movies. They run for roughly $75,000- but, I'd say it is a very prized peice.

February 5, 2007, 08:29 PM
For me it would be a Searcy Double Rifle in .577 Nitro Express.


February 5, 2007, 09:30 PM
H&K P7-45ACP. Do they even still exist?

February 6, 2007, 09:27 AM
.44 automag or the Atchisson Shotgun. ( My dad turned me on to Mack Bolan at a VERY early age.)

February 6, 2007, 03:07 PM
Got the Automag...

February 6, 2007, 04:03 PM
Colt R80 Monitor BAR

Holland & Holland Magazine Rifle

A black powder cartridge double rifle.

February 6, 2007, 04:18 PM
For practical purposes and firepower, I'd say the WA2000 by Walther. It is a sniper rifle BUILT on the idea of being a sniper rifle FIRST and FOREMOST. It is seen in many movies. They run for roughly $75,000- but, I'd say it is a very prized peice.

Wow, those are on the open market? Since they only made ~167 of them I would expect very high prices.

And I don't know about movies, but Mr. 47 in the Hitman games has a takedown version.

February 6, 2007, 04:20 PM
My Grandfathers 12 ga SXS A.H. Fox, with 30" full and full, what he described as "Krupt Steel Barrels." (I have no idea what difference the "krupt Steel" would have made in it's value, but he was impressed with it.)

And his 20 ga SXS Parker.

My Uncle has both today. But that doesn't stop me from wanting them. :D

February 6, 2007, 04:28 PM
Audy Murphy's Thompson M1928A1 ;)

February 6, 2007, 04:32 PM
CajunBass, perhaps your grandfather was referring to Krupp steel?


I learned something of this steel while owning an Italian made Del Tin sword some years ago that was made with ck55 Krupp steel. I don't really know how it compared to other types but some people still protest that they made better blades before switching to a newer steel alloy.

February 6, 2007, 05:06 PM
My Holy Grail is my 6 inch stainless steel Colt Python. My second is my Sig P220. I don't shoot them much, but it's a real treat when I do. Like losbster tail, rib eyes on the grille, and some ice cold Yuengling Lagers! :D :D

February 6, 2007, 05:10 PM
Model 12 in a 28 Gauge.

February 6, 2007, 05:13 PM
Hey Hoji,

I am ordering the .500 PH model from Butch. It's not the .577 but it should be a kick.

February 6, 2007, 05:27 PM
.45 Luger
Liberator .45 pistol
Blackbeards pistol(s)

February 6, 2007, 07:03 PM
Strings, just out of curiosity, to you make your own rounds for your automag?

February 6, 2007, 09:14 PM
A WWII Liberator - the stamped sheet-metal, single shot .45 that was dumped over Europe for the resistance, and also to demoralize the Nasis. It is a simple, ugly, cheap gun, but it embodies the spirit of hope and freedom!

February 6, 2007, 09:27 PM
Sig 210.

February 6, 2007, 09:31 PM
If Elmer Keith had a prototype 44 Mag revolver, that might be it:)

February 7, 2007, 12:13 AM
CajunBass, perhaps your grandfather was referring to Krupp steel?

You're right of course Sean. I was working graveyard shift last night and didn't proofread close enough. The barrels were stamped "Krupp Steel" and it was my understanding that was the best, strongest steel in the world at least at the time. It seems to me that he told me he bought that gun about 1911, but I was a kid, and it was a long time ago so my memory might not be right on that.

February 7, 2007, 06:30 AM
66912: yep. Well, I reload, but I have the dies for cutting bras: will run almost any brass that's the same as .45acp at the head...

February 7, 2007, 06:37 AM
My holy grail is just finding a long range to shoot at. 300+

February 7, 2007, 10:31 AM
Gatling and the later Vulcan cannon is the holy grail of firearms.

February 22, 2007, 10:57 AM
Personally, I wouldn't mind getting ahold of an M-3 "Grease Gun". Just because!

Here ya go, a twofer with a registered M-3 and a Liberator for *only* $24,000. They have just been relisted, and there are still ten days left.

I have two Liberators, and wrote up a short test report on one of them HERE (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=172677).

February 22, 2007, 11:07 AM
Too bad it's the price that's holding me back! :D

Where's that winning powerball ticket?

February 22, 2007, 12:02 PM
Handgun: H&K SOCOM (http://www.hkpro.com/socom.htm)
Rifle: Barret .50 (http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifle_82.aspx) (Nicely scoped (http://www.snipercountrypx.com/pc-324-792-leupold-vx-iii-lr-65-20x40-dot.aspx)) or an H&K PSG1 (http://www.hkpro.com/psg1.htm)
Shotgun: A Nice Barettta Over & Under (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun_inventory/inventory/hamburg/beretta/451715_bjs_ham.jsp?hierarchyId=11891&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=$12,000%20shotgun&cm_ite=netcon)

February 22, 2007, 12:07 PM
H&K P7-45ACP. Do they even still exist?

According to HK Pro (http://www.hkpro.com/p7m7.htm) there are only 6 in the world.

Among P7 aficionados, there is one pistol that gets them fired up more than any other. The P7M7. Rarest of the P7s, the M7 in .45ACP never went beyond prototype stage. There are only six examples in the world, and they are in the possession of HK. There was one rumored to be for sale in Honolulu, Hawaii for $10,000, but this was surely a bogus claim. The six were produced in 1983. The serial numbers ranged from 001M7 to 006M7. With a magazine capacity of seven rounds, you can see why it was called the M7.

February 22, 2007, 02:19 PM
A couple of Korth revolvers. I handled one at Earl's in Tewksbury, MA a few years back that was GOLD PLATED! It was either 10K or 15K. It scared me. $$$$! :what:

February 22, 2007, 04:39 PM
All of you who mentioned the Gyrojet, here's your chance.


Four days to go, opening bid $2500. Considering that there is an original box of 24 rounds of ammo that go with it, and collectors are paying $25 to $50 apiece for them, it's well worth the opening bid. I haven't decided whether or not to bid on it myself yet.

February 22, 2007, 05:37 PM
My Holy grail would be an STG44

February 22, 2007, 05:51 PM
Why, obviously, the witch-doctor's pointing stick.

Think about it. It's

a. light

b. easily concealed

c. never misses

d. never runs out of ammo

e. can have either delayed or immediate action

f. can't be used against the w-d if dropped

g. silent, *and* recoilless

h. you can make a new one anytime from local materials

i. it's magic, so folks are also scared of what else you may have

February 22, 2007, 06:15 PM
Hi Drysdale,

I am familiar with the 6 that were produced for trials. This is common discussion in P7 collector circles.

To this day, HK won't confirm if they still exist. They may be in a box in Germany, they may have been destroyed, no one knows.

Lot's of rumors abound, supposedly the Sultan of Brunei paid $1million for one.

Problem is, there is no verifiable information anywhere that these still exist.

P7M7 .45ACP is truly a "Holy Grail" handgun.

February 22, 2007, 06:19 PM
Hathcock's 70.

Or maybe the first Liberator produced. Those have some history.

I dont know. There's so many guns that can be considered the Holy Grail.

February 22, 2007, 06:21 PM
My "Holy Grail" is something like this:

February 22, 2007, 07:17 PM
how bout the luger HITLER shot himself with

February 22, 2007, 07:40 PM

Actually I believe Adolf relieved the "tension headache" via a 32cal Walther PPK..

My understanding that the P08 (1908) Luger was actually a WW1 pistol, long replaced by the Walther P38 (1938) for the poor folks, with the Walther PP in 32cal for some civilian leo's and such, and the the fancy folks were offered the option of either the P38 (in 9mm) or the smaller, fancier PPK in in 32cal.

I think, or have read, where the PPK's were the choice of the higher ranking NAZI folks, and apparently from time to time fancy engraved PPK's were given out to special folks for special accomplishments.

Not trying to be a smart butt here, just can't help trying to decrease all of the nonsensical information floating around in this old senior citizens brain before it drains out all by itself..:barf:

I'm sure someone smarter in this area will come around and correct me if I"m wrong about the type pistol used. If my information is incorrect I apologize..

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

February 22, 2007, 07:46 PM
I love my little Glock 19.... but for me, the M1911 is it.

For rifles, one of my Garands will do.

For shotguns, my Remington 870

But there's no clear winner. Oh well, guess I'll just have to keep firing them all. Oh darn.


February 22, 2007, 08:04 PM
Teddy Roosevelt's Winchester 1895

Any Winchester 1885

An original Colt Walker

The Airgun Lewis and Clark carried

February 22, 2007, 08:14 PM
My "holy grail" would be any piece provably carried/used by anyone famous or infamous.


Ernst Stuhlinger's 98k

Jimi Hendrix's M14

Elvis Presley's M14

Alvin York's Enfield

James Tiptree's/Alice Sheldon's piece

Anything owned by H. Beam Piper

The M1 Gemeral Gavin jumped and killed with

the pistol which misfired, twice, against President Jackson

and, personally, anything carried by Dr. Hans Asperger for the Wehrmacht.

February 22, 2007, 08:18 PM
Gas Trap Garand, esp. in .276 Pederson
Japanese WW2 copy of the M1 Garand
Original 1903 Rod Bayonet rifle
A 100% original Johnson 41 - preferrably one carried by a USMC 'Chutist on Guadalcanal

February 22, 2007, 08:18 PM
I want the .30-06 rifle, Sarah Brady bought for her son!!:scrutiny:

:D :neener:

February 22, 2007, 08:19 PM
Oh, forgot the one Burr used to shoot Hamilton in the tummy. That pistol did a good deed, it's a shame it didn't happen sooner.

BTW, I *am* an anti-federalist.

February 22, 2007, 08:22 PM
This Piece[ATTACH]:)

February 22, 2007, 08:30 PM
My firearm's holy grail would be enough ammunition to shoot as much as I want.

Fantasy firearms wise, a hammerless 1911.

Things I may actually buy, an M1a.

February 22, 2007, 10:23 PM
How about the gun that fired the first shot at Lexington???

February 22, 2007, 10:35 PM
One of the original Quigley Sharps rifles for me.

January 13, 2008, 03:46 PM
The holy grail of firearms? Here you go http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7811043/m/589109167


January 13, 2008, 04:47 PM
ok reading down the list, hitman134 got me with this one

A Gold AK-47 From Iraq! -but i would actually be more into a pistol.

the ultimate gangster's gun, without the guilt of having a Nazi weapon (some neo-nazi idiot would always think the nazi weapon was "cool")

Capone's guns would be alright, but not as unique, and later gangsters- kind of a joke compared to the originals who got their hands dirty.

the tyrant's sidearm taken back to U.S., sold, passed around , gawked at and used to plink cans- a great way to bury the regime

January 17, 2008, 01:06 AM
I am not knowledgeable enough on my firearms history at this point to identify too many major collector guns, but I have a few personal "holy grails" of sorts
-the original Armalite AR-15 that Curtis LeMay shot watermelons with, apparently it sold for $250,000 or something
-a practical holy grail, the Barrett M82/M107
-a select-fire HK G36, IMI Tavor, FN P90, HK MP7, FN SCAR, FAMAS, M16A4, TDI Kriss, SIG 552, and other fruit forbidden by leftist gun-grabbers
-the OICW
-a Browning M2 .50 machine gun
-a GE 7.62mm Minigun just for kicks
-an original black-powder 4-bore elephant gun
-the 12-gauge rifle from hell
-a custom-crafted H&H double in .700NE
-an Atchisson AA-12 full-auto shotgun
-a boat-mounted 1-gauge punt gun
-another practical holy grail, a few high-end precision rifles from AI, McMillan, GAP, etc
-Mechem NTW-20 20mm sniper rifle
-WW2 Boys anti-tank rifle
-original Thompson SMG

January 17, 2008, 12:16 PM
My personal top 3 would be

1. a cherry original Thompson drum gun :) (I love both the history, and look of them.)

2. A Berreta 93R :evil:
My dad turned me on to Mack Bolan at a VERY early age.
I loved all those Mack Bolan books also.

3. A minigun (Loved the one Ventura carried in Preditor) :p

Yeah all of the above would be awesome, but I would say that for most folks guns with real history would rank higher than just great guns as far as "Holy Grails" go.

Original Rev war weapon carried by GW

Ole Hickory's dueling pistol

One of Teddy Roosevelt's rifles from his "Rough Rider" days

Carlos Hathcocks bullet through the scope captured VC sniper

January 17, 2008, 01:39 PM
haven't had the time to go through the numerous pages of this thread, so I dunno if someone already mentioned this or not, but my gun grail is the .38 caliber Volcanic Pistol manufactured by Volcanic Repeating Arms Co. number two would probably be a .44 Henry Rifle. both not cheap guns by any means, so they may never be added to the collection...except my old man has a Henry rifle, so maybe one day....;)

January 17, 2008, 02:53 PM
From a historical standpoint... Any firearm owned by Paul Revere, John Hancock or Samuel Adams would do nicely.

As a safe queen/BBQ gun, something by Peter Hofer perhaps? His 'Hummingbird' would be fine:

In the NFA ball game... A FN Minimi M249, with a proper tripod sounds like fun.

January 17, 2008, 03:01 PM
Emler Keith's #1, Bell's .275 Mauser, Patterson's .303, Capstick's .470 Nitro(Although I believe that has recently been accounted for), an unissued Sig P210 with no import marks, an original Sharps in 45-125, a war-era BAR, STG44, etc, etc...

EDIT: Oh, and Teddy Roosevelt's 405 Winchester :)

January 30, 2008, 01:26 AM
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it but Luger built 2 .45acp Lugers for the US pistol trials when the 1911 was adopted. They are worth HUGE money and they are really gorgeous. There are a lot of guns I like, but the 45ACP Lugers have GOT to be the Holy Grail.

January 30, 2008, 08:17 AM
Probably a SIG 551.

January 30, 2008, 09:29 AM
The musket that killed Crispus Attucks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crispus_Attucks), a martyr for the American Revolution.

January 30, 2008, 09:37 AM
Too many to choose from. My holy grail would be a classic, handmade English SxS Purdey. Or any other shotgun mady by James Purdey and Sons.

January 30, 2008, 09:44 AM
Defensive Edge SLR15 Grail:


January 30, 2008, 12:20 PM
Holy grail of guns? The one that you don't have to reload.

January 30, 2008, 01:58 PM
Lewis & Clark's air rifle (recently proven such and now on display at a military museum):

Cool looking gun. The L&C journals are worth reading if you get the chance.

January 30, 2008, 02:20 PM
A fully auto g36...suppressed.


January 30, 2008, 07:19 PM
for me the holy grail of firearms would be the BAR that my grandfather carried in WWII.

January 30, 2008, 07:38 PM
I'm pretty much an ancestor-worshipper, so I'd want something that had to do with my family's history. I already have the rifle that my grandfather's grandfather bought when he came to america and started running guns to the Fenians.

His grandfather was Napoleon's physician while he was in Exile on St. Helena; he gave Napoleon two pistols based on the new percussion principle (forsyth percussion lock, I think it would have been-- before caps). Anyway, I'd like to get my hands on either or both of those, but as of yet I have not been able to figure out who (if anyone) has one.

January 30, 2008, 07:50 PM
This would have to be one on the top of my list...

This is serial number 2. The gas system is remarkably similar to that on the G.41(M), the primary difference being that the piston here is fixed inside the barrel sleeve (which doubles as the cocking handle). The bolt system is like a reversed AK47. Below is an article on the rifle: HAENEL PROTOTYPE SEMI-AUTOMATIC RIFLE By Hugh W. BrockThe firm of C. G. Haenel was founded in Suhl, Germany in 1840 by C. G. Haenel, a Royal Prussian Commissar for Factories, with the support of the Prussian state to produce military arms. The firm also produced sporting arms and bicycles. In 1921, the reknowned arms designer of the MP18 I submachiengun, Hugo Schmeisser went to work for Haenel. In 1925 a complicated arrangement was worked out between the Schmeissers and Haenel family that lasted until the end of WW2. The MP28 II submachinegun was developed at Haenel. Other submachinegun development met with limited success, the MP41 being the most successful. Schmeisser was the force behind the M.Kb.42(H) which became the basis for the world's first true assault rifle, the StG44. After WW2 he spent about five years in Izhvesk in the Soviet Union with other German arms experts. Izhvesk is where the AK47 was developed.The rifle has the C. G. Haenel trademark on the buttplate. The only other markings are the number 2 which appears on the side of the receiver concealed by the stock and on the receiver end cap. The receiver has a green cast from an acid bath. The rest of the parts are in the white. The stock has had a coat of linseed oil added after the War. It was never finished and has some penciled marks on the outside. Estimated time of manufacture is the mid- to late 1930’s.This rifle is gas-operated, semi-automatic and striker-fired. Caliber 8x57JS (7,9 Infanterie Patrone). It has an integral magazine with a capacity of 5 rounds. It is cocked by grasping the knurled section about 1/3 of the way back on the barrel jacket and pulling the barrel jacket to the rear. The striker is caught and held by the sear in the cocked position. When the jacket is released, it runs forward, loading a cartridge into the chamber. When the trigger is pulled, the striker is driven forward firing the cartridge. As the bullet exits the barrel it passes through a gas chamber screwed onto the end of the barrel. The gases are momentarily trapped there and some pressure diverted to the rear through holes in the back end. This gas acts against a piston mounted inside the forward jacket, driving the entire jacket to the rear. Twin operating rods (as in the G.41(M)) are mounted in the rear of the jacket and linked to the bolt. The rods move in tracks in the bolt, rotating the two rear locking lugs out of engagement and pushing the bolt to the rear where the cycle begins anew.
Certificate of Authenticity Included

Other possibles for me...
Original Civil War issue Henry and/or Spencer
Original Civil War issue Whitworth (scoped with original period brass scope)
Original Gatlin Gun (technically not a machine gun, possibly NFA exempt)
Dillon Aero M134 Minigun (if they ever repeel GCA of '86)
German made drilling
German StG 44
Russian PPSh 41

Given enough time, this could be a long list.


Edit: I'll add one more- Prototype M1 Garand, 10 shot in .276 Petersen

January 30, 2008, 07:57 PM
Luftwaffe Doppelflinte Drilling survival gun.
Any Gatling
Borchardt with stock

January 30, 2008, 08:20 PM
Add a Dardick to my list of toys wanted.

January 30, 2008, 09:34 PM
I have no idea but I just ran into this Hi-Power dinkin around and thought it was beautiful.....


January 31, 2008, 10:58 AM
Colt Lightning. There's always been something cool about it.

The FG42. If you have to ask, then you just don't get it.

HK P2000. A truly ambidextrous pistol.

And finally, one that doesn't actually exist: my dream AR. 16" Midlength A3 with Gov't profile barrel, Phantom FS, normal handguards, slickside upper (no FA), MagPul trigger guard, Tango Down grip, Trijicon ACOG TA01NSN-DOC, and with (get this) mahogany-brown furniture.

January 31, 2008, 02:06 PM
A Viet Nam era AK.

January 31, 2008, 10:06 PM
Colt M-16A1 serial #3183195. It is the M-16 I qualified with in 1982 at Ft. Benning.

July 17, 2008, 11:15 PM
Well my grail has always been the BM-59, I like all types, But the Alpine with 10 mags and a wharehouse full of 762x51, and a brandnew M-60 with tri pod and t&e

July 17, 2008, 11:44 PM
A Welrod. If you don't know about it, that was the idea.

July 17, 2008, 11:48 PM
A .45 Luger.

July 17, 2008, 11:50 PM
The Holy Grail of guns will be the last one fired before the Lord returns.

July 18, 2008, 12:42 AM
probably like a set of WWII stuff, Patton's revolver. all the full auto stuff, browning .50's, mg 44's and 42's. BAR, thompsons etc. preferably ones with a pedigree, made by colt and fought on d day etc.

July 18, 2008, 12:45 AM
the pistol jesus likes the most, of course!

Golden Hound
July 18, 2008, 12:56 AM
The ultra-rare Lorcin L200 .308-caliber battle rifle.

July 18, 2008, 12:59 AM
even better, the gun that got tupac.

July 18, 2008, 12:59 AM
Holland & Holland double rifle in .375 H&H Magnum.

July 18, 2008, 01:12 AM
My quest for The Holy Grail would lead me to an original vintage Peacemaker, followed by an original, unaltered, vintage Revolutionary War musket, used by THE GOOD GUYS.

July 18, 2008, 10:44 AM
I'm not much into collecting, but I am into shooting.

I would like a Delisle carbine.

As far as ancestor worship though, I'd like the Thompson my Grandfather carried in the pacific.

July 18, 2008, 10:58 AM
BUT, the true automotive Holy Grail?-Bugatti Royale. Arguably THE most exotic and rare (7 made, 6 exist, all different body styles)---Last sale of one I know about was, IIRC $30 million.

There are rarer cars. If I recall there were only three 1967 GTOs made in convertible with Alutian Blue paint.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 18, 2008, 11:05 AM
Holland & Holland double rifle in .375 H&H Magnum.

Bingo. Except in .700 Nitro Express. Or maybe a Colt Patterson revolver.

Some people I know assured me that Jesus packed Gaston's "perfection" *cough*, whilst he drank his kool-aid from the Grail.

July 18, 2008, 11:10 AM
Some people I know assured me that Jesus packed Gaston's "perfection" *cough*, whilst he drank his kool-aid from the Grail.
At risk of blaspheming and going someplace I don't want to go, I believe the lord carried a custom flinklock pistol. After all, if he could feed a whole crowd off a few loaves and fishes, he could cap a whole gang with a single round-ball.

July 18, 2008, 01:16 PM
The Holy Grail of firearms.
Sgt. York's .45 ACP it's still listed as MIA and priceless.
1903 Springfield #25468
Good luck. :)

July 18, 2008, 01:16 PM
The Holy Grail for me would be John Waynes colt.The one he always wore in most of his westerns.

July 18, 2008, 01:18 PM
I want the gun Hitler used to commit suicide.

I want the gun Alvin York used, either a 1903 Springfield, or a P-14 Enfield.

July 18, 2008, 01:25 PM
.45 acp Mauser C96, original Armalite AR-10 & AR-15 1/14 twist with 2000 rounds of original .30 M1 homologue .223 ammo. (The nasty stuff from the ARPA tests in Viet Nam). And a SPIW with ammo.

July 18, 2008, 02:54 PM
The BAR my father carried in the South Pacific in WWII. That would be special.

smirnoff a
July 18, 2008, 02:55 PM


Total Recall special.

July 18, 2008, 03:02 PM

Non-civilian version with short barrel and full auto. Suppressor would be good too.

Aren't we all
July 18, 2008, 03:32 PM
or the contents of the Stalingrad millitary museum and a crapload of ammo.:)

July 18, 2008, 03:36 PM
As for a shooter, it would be a Browning Hi Power.As far as a collector piece,I second John Waynes SA.

La Pistoletta
July 18, 2008, 03:45 PM
Wouldn't mind a WA2000.

July 18, 2008, 04:07 PM
1921 Colt made Thompson


July 18, 2008, 04:16 PM
The Holy Grail of Firearms...

Why the Raven of course :D

(actually I heard a few say if you don't expect much of them they are decent plinkers.)

kentucky bucky
July 18, 2008, 09:59 PM
I think it would be owning one of the two(?) Lugers in .45 ACP that were made in Germany by Mauser? for a US Army test before WWI. I saw a show about them and at that time the estimated worth was over a million.

To me it would be owning an ornate 1770's era flintlock longrifle made, signed and dated by one of the famous master gunbuilders.

July 18, 2008, 10:18 PM
Walker Colt


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