PF-9 or Kahr?


October 19, 2006, 12:43 AM
I've been looking for a small concealment piece and have narrowed the choices down to the yet-to-be released Kel-Tec PF-9 or the Kahr pistols. I know the steel Kahrs weigh about twice as what's listed for the PF-9. Size-wise they are very close dimensionally, same magazine capacity, but the Kahrs cost twice as much as the Kel-Tecs. Being a previous K9 owner I know them pretty well. I am still waiting for my local dealers to stock any PF-9's. Maybe I ought to just wait for them to stock them and check them out side-by-side first hand. I doubt they will have any rentals available for awhile so renting them to shoot will be many months away.
I am stuck on having at least a 9mm for a concealment piece but have no experience with Kel-Tecs and have heard good and bad about them. Considering the price I would hope they are a good deal.

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two tone
October 19, 2006, 12:55 AM
go over to the glock case..then find the smallest one :neener:

October 19, 2006, 12:57 AM
I Own Both - the new PF-9 and the KT P9.

Both are great for CCW.

Capacity is higher on the PF-9

Both are very accurate to about 15-20 yards...

The Kahr is just a weeeeee bit heavier in my estimation (have not weighed them yet).

Both triggers are long DAO triggers... both are good - the PF-9 is smooth as butter, though... it took 500 or so rounds for the Kahr to get there...

They use the same holsters... IWB, Fobus, Belt Slide...

I have carried the P9 for 2+ years now. i am in the process of stress testing the PF-9 for CCW reliability. Out of a consistent mixed bag of CCI, WWB and Cor-Bon, I have experienced NO FAILURES of any type in 500+ rounds.

Both are a Great Purchase - the PF-9 is half the price of the P9...

Hope this helps!

October 19, 2006, 07:26 AM
HK P2000sk. Great gun.

October 19, 2006, 08:00 AM
TC-TX... the Kel-Tec PF-9 is available now?

October 19, 2006, 08:18 AM
Kahr PM9

If I live long enough to see those Kel-Teks make it to distribution, I'll look at them.

I've been hearing about them since the SHOT show, what, February? :rolleyes:

October 19, 2006, 08:49 AM
the Kel-Tec PF-9 is available now?

YES - I picked mine up 3 weeks ago.

October 19, 2006, 10:35 AM
Local gunsmith staes that KelTec's have more problems than Kahr. There is a lighter, polymer framred version,of the Kahr. I believe it's a PM-9.

October 19, 2006, 10:40 AM
Take a long look at the threads over on KTOG. I'm interested in the PF9 as well but there seems to be a good amount of teething problems (failure to feed heavier loadings, failure to feed from the magazine, fit and finish of some parts, etc). Not saying it is a bad pistol but be prepared to do some tinkering or sending it back to Kel Tec under warranty.

My biggest complaint is the company annouces they have a new design and then they fail to put out a realistic release date. Production delays naturally occur while they work out design flaws, tooling issues, etc.. However, customer pressure increases, because of the previously unrealistic release date, and the company then sends out a product that isn't ready.

I still plan to get one when they become available locally. However, I wouldn't if this was my first and only handgun to be used for self defense.

BTW: I am a KT owner......

October 19, 2006, 10:55 AM

I've never owned a Kahr, but in just reading posts on various firearm forums it seems the light weight versions are problemmatic.. The heavier models seem to be quite fine, I know "Rev Yong Sun Moon" thinks highly of them...

I do own 2 KelTecs and if you listen to Fowler and one or two others you might think that 90% of KelTec firearms are crap, but my experience has been just the opposite. I DO think KelTecs can be subject to problems with "limpwristing", but that's an operator problem, not a pistol problem. Lock your wrist when shooting and solve the problem.

My P11 was so good I bought the P32... The P32 & the P11 have been so good I'm going to buy a PF-9.. No problems, no malfunctions, accurate at self defense range (which they were designed for), what more can you ask?

My personal opinion of, and experience with KelTec pistols leads me to believe that if you want to shoot 10,000rds at targets 25' away buy something more expensive, larger, all metal... The KelTecs are IMO designed to be as absolutely light and concealable as they can be and still be reliable with a reasonably large caliber round.

They are NOT target pistols, nor are they designed for marathon shootings.. The good thing is that should you actually "wear out" your KelTec then the lifetime warranty will kick in and KT will fix the old one, or give you a new one.

Sounds fair to me...:D

If you can, shoot both and decide which fits your needs the best.


Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

Green Lantern
October 19, 2006, 11:06 AM
I LOVE my P3AT....but it's been in production long enough to get the 'bugs' worked out.

If you need something RIGHT NOW, based on feedback from some PF-9 owners, I'd say get the Kahr!

Dollar An Hour
October 19, 2006, 11:15 AM
Ditto what Green Lantern says above.

My 2nd Gen P32 has been good, but P32s have been out forever and are pretty well dialed in.

The internet is full of disgruntled Kahr owners, but that seems to be almost exclusively the PM polymer pistols. If you're open to a metal-framed MK9, I'd say spend the bucks on the Kahr.

Another single stack 9mm that is under 21 oz and dependable is the S&W CS9, maybe have a look at that if you don't mind DA/SA trigger.

October 19, 2006, 11:27 AM
Considering the fact that the PF-9 is just starting to hit dealer shelves, I would opt for something more proven until the PF-9 proves itself reliable.

Now, if you have a CCW weapon already, by all means pick up a PF-9 and give it a good once over.

I've never owned a polymer Kahr, but did own a K9 and MK9 and they were wonderful heavy single stack 9mm's. Because of internet lore i've stayed away from the P9 and PM9.

Whichever you get, make sure you put 2-500 rounds through it to make sure it is realiable. Then put atleast 100rds of your carry ammo through it too.


October 19, 2006, 11:49 AM
There has only been one small batch of PF-9s shipped. Even the press samples have not shipped yet.

October 19, 2006, 11:50 AM
You could always get the double stack P11 if you don't trust the new production PF9. I bought my P11 in its second year, maybe third, not sure, but I think second. It was about 96. Anyway, it's been flawless and amazingly accurate, plenty accurate enough for a service pistol, let alone a pocket gun.

As regards to the lighter weight Kahrs having problems, I think a lot of that is probably limp wristing, same as was "problems" with the old P40 Kel Tecs from what I've read. Get a good grip on the gun. These little guns demand decent shooting skills. Their light weight and short sight radius requires it. The DA triggers require some practice and DA ability, too. These little guns aren't for those who don't shoot much IMHO. They are for skilled shooters, but then, if you are going to rely on a handgun for self defense, you'd better be skilled with it, after all.

Personally, I have no problem with Kahr OR Kel Tec. I voted KT because of the value/price. You get a LOT of solid firearm for you dollar with a Kel Tec, but that doesn't mean a Kahr won't work.

Anna's Dad
October 19, 2006, 06:00 PM
I'd go with the Kahr or a more established Kel-Tec (I carry the P-32). Just too many issues with the PF-9 right now.

Of course I have read a number of negative posts on the polymer Kahr as well (PM9). The MK9 seems to be great, but its quite a bit heavier.

October 19, 2006, 10:56 PM
I looked at guns that size and bought a SIG p232. .380 is not my favorite caliber but this gun goes boom every time I pull the trigger, its very accurate, and it conceals well. Just my two cents.

October 20, 2006, 09:30 AM
I have a kahr k-40 and absolutly love it, there are many kahr owners on here that would agree. i have experience with kel-tecs and i just don't like them at all. I have experience with three different models of the kahr series and they were all sweet and the all functioned and preformed flawlessly. My kahr is steel framed, and a little hevier than the polymer but hardly enough to tell it. it balances well, and with the houge grips it fits my hand great. the sights are sweet and it shoots awesome. I wish i could shoot lead rds in it but that is hardly a complaint. I love the 9mm model as well the kahr k-9 elite which is a really sweet pistol. They are a little pricy but I have never looked back after buying mine,and since the first time i shoot my dad's i was hooked and had o have one. The are accurate, concealable, but still fit me perfectly, and carry easy, sometimes i forget i have it on! I love it, mine ain't going anywhere!

October 20, 2006, 12:27 PM
I have the Kahr MK9, I've never held a PM9, but I can say that with a belt on, I WILL forget the MK9 is in my pocket.

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