I think we're STILL heading to the outlawing of Self-Defense, a-la the UK...


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Green Lantern
October 19, 2006, 10:55 AM
Sure, things are looking good for CCW, Castle Doctrine, no illegal firearm seizures from the law abiding...

But are we forgetting some people? This hit me like a ton of bricks this morning when I thought about how things like OC, Stun Guns, retractable batons, etc, are more restricted than GUNS or outright illegal in many places.

OC is NOT JUST a useful less-lethal tool for a CCW. It is also the first thing that MANY people, people who would never choose to own a gun, reach for when it hits them that self-defense is everyone's right and RESPONSIBILITY!

Almost every day at work when ringing a customer up, I see at least ONE person with some OC on their keyring.

Maybe it's time we organize and address the inane laws that restrict carry of these self-defense tools.

Because, just because someone isn't willing or able to resort to the deadly force of a gun for self-defense, they STILL have the right to defend themselves.

Otherwise - we're heading to becoming SUBJECTS like our poor cousins across the pond in the UK. Where the only "criminals" the police have the stones to go after are the ones that BECOME criminals under unjust laws making self-defense illegal...or cases of "political correctness" taken to the far extreme.

Food for thought (cooked in tinfoil perhaps, :p but...) - could this be "divide and conquer" by the "Government is God" types??? Make it to where the ONLY ones who take responsibility for their self defense are those of us that choose to carry guns? And I'd guess there are less CCWers than there are OC-carriers....

That way, when they finally pass a law saying that we have no right to fight back against the criminal scum that prey on the law-abiding, they only have to deal with us "gun nuts?" As everyone else has already turned in their OC to the FedGov and gone back to their "sheeple" lives...????

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beerslurpy
October 19, 2006, 11:00 AM
It depends where you live I guess. You can carry the sprays in school here.

Pilgrim
October 19, 2006, 11:02 AM
For a short period of time it was more difficult to buy OC spray in CA than it was for a handgun.

Pilgrim

beerslurpy
October 19, 2006, 11:22 AM
Well, CA sucks, we've debated this to death already.

Still, it would be a relatively easy case to make that women need spray to be protected against rapists and the like. You would think the women's rights orgs would be all over this sort of thing.

El Tejon
October 19, 2006, 11:28 AM
And just where is it that these things are restricted???:confused:

I know clubs are illegal in Texas and California has some wierd fetish about OC, but there are dozens of less than lethal alternatives.

Shouldn't this be in S und T?

beerslurpy
October 19, 2006, 11:30 AM
I agree that it isnt really a huge deal, but we are talking about the legality of the devices, not their actual employment.

Lemon328i
October 19, 2006, 11:31 AM
In possibly less than two generations, the gov't won't need to outlaw self-defense.... the kids of today (who will be adults then) will automatically assume they have no such right.

Kids today are being sent to schools where they are taught they have fewer rights than hardcore felons. They are being brainwashed into thinking that all forms of violence are unacceptable (even when you are defending yourself). Hell, at some stupid school in ASSachusetts, they banned playing tag for kids, thinking it was too violent! Tag!

The battle that needs to be fought is at the elementary school level. Kids need to have pride in their country, understanding of individual rights and freedoms, and normal activities that promote free thinking.

Green Lantern
October 19, 2006, 10:57 PM
Trying to influence what and how things are taught in schools is hard, and sometimes you fail.

Countering what is taught, when needed, shouldn't be...! ;)

pride in their country, understanding of individual rights and freedoms, and normal activities that promote free thinking.

It's not a given that kids will learn all of these things at school. All the more reason it should be a given that they learn them at home.

beerslurpy makes a good point about women's rights. Of course, probable that many of them take the same back-asswards view they have with guns: "the rapist will take it away and use it against you! It's BETTER just to CO-OPERATE with the rapist!" :rolleyes:

Low-Sci
October 19, 2006, 11:08 PM
Yeah, some of the stuff kids get exposed to in school is ridiculous, but its worth noting that a lot of kids know that its ridiculous to suggest that you don't have the right to self-defense. It was always a given in my high school, and I'm 21.

Electric weapons are illegal to go armed with here in Wisconsin, which is ridiculous when open carry is legal.

Panthera Tigris
October 20, 2006, 02:35 AM
I thought about using my stun gun or getting paper spray if I ever had to move to Chicago to find work.

Well, those b*stards won't even let you carry either one of those either.

fjolnirsson
October 21, 2006, 01:47 AM
In CA, you can legally carry a handgun on school campuses with a CCW, but a Leatherman is still a felony, due to the length of the blade.
In CA, even with a Concealed Carry Permit, a Switchblade is a felony to carry. A concealed handgun with no permit and no priors, can be charged as a misdemeanor.
Here in Oregon, I can legally carry my concealed handgun*with permit) into a hospital, but not my OC.
Brass knuckles, Switchblades, Batons. All of these things and others have gotten restricted somewhere along the line in many areas of the country.

Third_Rail
October 21, 2006, 01:53 AM
In MA, you need a license to buy OC. Most people illegally buy it from NH, ME, VT, etc. rather than get a license for it, though.


FWIW, the license involves getting photographed, fingerprinted, put in the state PD criminal file, having a full background check (like NICS) and waiting up to 90 days. For OC. Yes, I'm serious.

longeyes
October 21, 2006, 11:30 AM
Just as the U.K. is turning into wolves and sheep, so too you can expect that here.

Cromlech
October 21, 2006, 12:39 PM
^What he said^ :mad:

crunker
October 21, 2006, 12:42 PM
In NJ stun guns, OC/CS gas, and similiar less-lethal devices are completely banned period. You can't even own them. No licensing no nothing. You just can't

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