L&P folks: help me brainstorm


Derek Zeanah
October 19, 2006, 06:44 PM
DISCLAIMER: this is off-topic, but will be locked once it's served its purpose...

I've registered a domain name, and am in the process of setting up a new site devoted to a broader scope than THR -- "rights" in general. I see it as a place where important topics that are off-limits here can be discussed. Privacy is the big one for me, but I'm leaning in an "anything listed in the bill of rights" direction as far as focus is concerned, and yes, that includes the 9th and 10th amendments. ;)

Things will be broken down into a couple of sections: Regular content, either written by me or user-submitted. Blogging news topics will work, as will tutorials, or whatever the community deems useful.
Forums. Up front I'll try the built-in software (Drupal for geeks) -- maybe moving to SMF or vB if it proves unsuitable. I'm open to other ideas -- I'm looking for a platform and sounding board, and I'm happy to share.

What I need right now are ideas: categories for the forums, categories for articles, useful tools you think you'd like to use, etc. Could also use a slogan and motto for the site, if you have something in mind. ;)

If you've got an idea, lemme know. We'll go from there.

And no, I'm not posting the URL yet. Maybe tomorrow.

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October 19, 2006, 07:02 PM
How about Computer , security,operating systems, privacy software, etc.
There seemed to be some concern on another thread. Though I stay away from the tinfoil hat crowd, there are some valid privacy concerns.
Also, news of Militia ,groups,contacts. ideas.

October 19, 2006, 07:03 PM
i'm just tossing stuff out here in typical brainstorming fashion, but consider a group of forums (equivalent to "social situations" here) labeled something like "practical privacy" that would be oriented towards things you should know and things you can do to help yourself, with specific forums for:
computer/internet privacy issues
consumer privacy (mailing lists and whatnot)
employer/employee privacy issues
government privacy issues

with stickies and faqs for practical info like "how to get off lists", "what to do when you discover your identity is stolen", "who has info on you and where it's stored"

and another group of forums that are oriented toward political activism and advocacy

October 19, 2006, 08:06 PM
Sounds essentially libertarian to me. Why not just have a subforum for each of the essential tenets of libertarianism. If it is to have any real relevance, it will need to be libertarian with a little L, not an inhospitable stronghold of the LP party faithful.

Derek Zeanah
October 19, 2006, 08:08 PM
I don't know that it's all that [l]ibertarian. Well, it is, but I think quite a few self-described liberals and conservatives have the same concerns -- government is getting bigger, and more intrusive.

I guess I don't see it as partisan, though your idea of breaking it down as the LP does might work. Or at least, that breakdown might be worth looking at...

October 19, 2006, 08:11 PM
I might be getting my wheels stuck in the mud with this one but how about a sub-forum devoted to debunking conspiracy theories, particularly political ones. The sort of stuff that whatreallyhappened.com thrives on.
It would make for a good read to catch opinions on things like 'our disappearing rights as a result of skull and bones engineering 9/11' but without the tin foil bias.

Also, lots of links to lifehacker.com type articles.

October 19, 2006, 08:36 PM
Why restrict it to the bill of rights? There are a number of important economic and legal freedoms (right to contract freely for example) that many no longer consider to be embodied in the BoR but are still very important in a free society.

I think the general tone should be one highlighting the benefits of individual autonomy and the harms of inept government meddling.

I agree that a general internet-focused privacy and rights area would be useful. The right to be left alone extends to private actors as well as the government.

Derek Zeanah
October 19, 2006, 09:04 PM
BoR + 9th and 10th. AFAICT, they're included there

October 19, 2006, 09:11 PM
Do you envision a discussion oriented site, or an action-oriented one? If it's action you want as a focus, you might use something like Claire Wolfe's three categories: Agitator (political action, ruckus raising, constructive confrontation, creative disobedience), Ghost (privacy, ID issues, living below the radar, Simon Jestering), and Mole (staying sane and effective while remaining within the system).

If it's more talk that you have in mind, the forum categories that come to my mind are Papers & Privacy (would include things like internet datamining/censoring and SSN/Real ID issues), Guns, Foreign Policy (including immigration), and Victimless Crimes (drugs, gay rights, etc). My personal preference on a forum is to keep the number of different boards to a minimum, lest you end up with a zillion different boards with only a handful of threads each.

October 19, 2006, 09:20 PM
My personal preference on a forum is to keep the number of different boards to a minimum, lest you end up with a zillion different boards with only a handful of threads each.

Yep ;) Just start out with a few sub-forums, and then create new ones when you get a number of threads on some discrete topic.

The new forum sounds like a great idea to me Derek, as most aspect of liberty are interconnected, whether we admit it or not. :)

October 19, 2006, 10:47 PM
if you hurry up and bring the site online, we could be discussing the story on fox news tonight that an alleged killer joseph duncan has a laptop computer that the FBI has been unable to unencrypt, and joey won't give them the password.

some LEO stuffed shirts are suggesting that he learned to do this in prison:rolleyes: and the program he used is PGP

October 20, 2006, 03:31 AM
I think Property Rights is one of those things under everyones radar. We catch the occasional story of a little old lady holding out against the government types. But thats only if its a slow news day and an editor or producer needs something for hype.

I'm in California and I haven't heard sqat about property rights and emminent domain here unless I purposely look for them. http://www.calpropertyrights.com/index.html

Taxes are another big bite out of our hides and folks don't realize what its costing them. The phone bill is 50% taxes, cost of a new gun is over 46% taxes. At the gas pump we pay a specific dollar amount for taxes per gallon, then we pay a percentage on top of that per gallon cost. http://www.atr.org/special/taxbites/index.html

A good idea is the Fair Tax http://www.fairtax.org/ but many people poo poo it it will never happen because the politicians want to give away money. Others say the poor will lose out and fall behind.

From the local city councils and county boards of supervisors, how many people actually attend these meetings? They are held twice a month and each time I go I am astounded by the empty seats in a city of 22,000 people. This is the time when things are slipped in and passed or overlooked. Yeah, I know its illegal and "They can't do that" without a hearing or forum.

Very few folks take an interest until it affects them personally and then its too late. To reverse the process is going to take all your assets to fight it and then they appeal to a higher court if the gov should lose.

The National League of Cities http://www.nlc.org/home/ has much to say to your council members thru the city staff. The elected officials come and go, however the staff is making a career of controlling your life. Have a question or idea? Go to the National League of Cities and checkout the database for guidlines of successful Ordinances to model after. Like this one from Los Angeles, listed as 1 of 38 in Firearms:
Los Angeles, California

To deter illegal trafficking of firearms, the Los Angeles Police Department's Gun Unit responds with aggressive investigations and enforcement. It uses a gun record database which can be searched for sale, dealer, purchaser, and possessor information, as well as federal and state firearms records. Such information aids investigations by creating leads for tracing of crime guns. The Unit enforces gun shop regulations by visiting every federally licensed dealer in the city, informing them of regulatory requirements, and if necessary, taking appropriate action against violators. The Gun Unit also acts as a liaison to the state legislature to offer city views on gun legislation. Since the establishment of the Gun Unit, weapons carrying offenses declined over a one-year period.

City of Los Angeles
Police Department
150 North Los Angeles Street
Los Angeles, CA 90012
(213) 485-3202

Complete with phone number.

All are listed here in the Knowledge base
http://www2.nlc.org/examples/cknsearchtest.htm just hit browse and wait a minute, all subjects will pop up and then you paste one. Its quite fun, especially if you are looking for new easy ways to control things without doing a lot of learning. Or just looking for revenue enhancement ideas.

I forget who said "All politics is local", he is correct, it all starts in your little corner of the world and snowballs into Trillion dollar budgets.

Geeez, did I say all that?


October 20, 2006, 03:51 AM
This is fun, I can't stop.
If your city has problems spending its money down before the fiscal deadline, you might suggest this to help them out.


Long Beach, California

Human Dignity Program

A two-year increase in hate crimes prompted Long Beach to create the Human Dignity Program, which aims to reduce the number of hate crimes by specifically tracking hate crimes data. The program's policy to treat everyone with "courtesy and respect" is ensured by four key elements: a Hate Crime Response Team, diversity acceptance training and activities, community harmony activities, and Intergroup Conflict Resolution Teams. During its first two years, the Hate Crime Response team responded to 52 incidents. A Hate Crime Prevention program educates the public about hate crimes, how to report them, and what each citizen can do to prevent them. In addition, after the September 11th terrorist attacks, the Human Dignity Program closely monitored racial hate against Middle Eastern and Muslim people.


Anitra Dempsey, Coordinator
City of Long Beach
333 West Ocean Boulevard, 13th Floor
Long Beach, CA 90802
(562) 570-5097


Derek Zeanah
October 20, 2006, 09:20 AM
Good ideas, folks.

I've gotta say that guns won't be a primary focus of the site -- we've got THR for that, and THR does the job well. I'm interested in all those related issues that really don't fit well here.

Re: action oriented or not? Possibly, but I'm not the sort to organize that kind of thing -- I'm a "leave me alone" type more than a "change the world" type, though I'm happy to try and talk people into being the latter. :D

Derek Zeanah
October 20, 2006, 02:16 PM
OK, here's the current forum structure (http://unalienable-rights.com/forum).


October 20, 2006, 02:58 PM
Add forums for "stupid laws - things that really make you question the intelligence of those who voted in favor" - I mean outlandish things that probably have no place in a law book...

I kind of like the idea of a forum with sub forums to discuss each Amendment in the BOR. The 3rd Amendment forum might not get much traffic, but hey it's just a thought.

One more thing - you need a cop bashing sub forum.:neener:

October 20, 2006, 03:18 PM
If you haven't already decided on what to use for the blog, I found that WordPress is the easiest and best to install and maintain, plus it's free. hehehe

If you need a hand with that, let me know, I have set up a bunch of them.

October 20, 2006, 03:19 PM
is inalienable-rights.com taken?

October 20, 2006, 03:21 PM
Disregard the above, I see you're using drupal. I never used that one, but it looks like something similar to joomla. I'll have to give that a whirl sometime.

Nice job!

Derek Zeanah
October 20, 2006, 03:25 PM
is inalienable-rights.com taken?Meh. Didn't look. I was just quoting (http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/index.htm).

October 20, 2006, 03:30 PM
How long until I get my email with a password? I registered about 20 minutes ago.

October 20, 2006, 03:38 PM
Definately needs to have a lighter side, and monitors that will let threads float longer...THR is a little stiff..TFL is WAY stiff. Other forums like www.KTOG.org and Glocktalk have more of a laid back feel. If you can pull it off I like to see a multi-firearm manufacturer forum, sort of like gunboards

October 20, 2006, 03:41 PM
Good all over you. Suggestion. Go live with a few topics which would be loosely monitored. Over time the categories of interest will become self-evident. Then when you are convinced that a particular category resonates with the peeps, you formalize it. Interests will change over time. ED issues are quiet for the time being. That will change. Judicial activism is quiet issue destined to erupt. National sovereignty will be a running sore. Mix in immigration and you've got an entire forum. You are flying into a target rich environment.

TFL and later THR were ahead of their time in that they both functioned as a poorman's bloggery. It allowed reasonably intelligent, somewhat articulate, and very busy people to comment on affairs of the day without doing the full blog monty. I am please to see someone pick up the flag and charge.

Gordon Fink
October 20, 2006, 03:57 PM
I like the idea of a rights-oriented forum not aimed specifically at libertarians. That should generate more open discussion between folks across the political spectrum. However, what you have so far is heavily weighted toward privacy rights. While important, this is only one aspect of the struggle for human freedom. Besides, I think privacy is already the focus of a number of other sites.

~G. Fink

Derek Zeanah
October 20, 2006, 04:36 PM
OK, forums reorganized again. At least everything fits on one page this time. ;)

Derek Zeanah
October 20, 2006, 04:39 PM
Should have been immediate.

Did you check your junk folder?

(Just tried it and had the e-mail @ my gmail account immediately...)

October 20, 2006, 04:43 PM
It still misses that abortion, women voters, black American politics, Church and State, and now illegal immigrants, especially anchor babies, are very controlling factors in US politics. I didn't see a place for any of those. If discussion of any one of those topics is prohibited or otherwise unwelcome by way of charter, people will be just nibbling around the edges of what voters and legislators really care about. Talk about rights all you want to, and they will be secondary to all this other stuff. I think the premise should be to question America as we know it, and in the process be straightforward about what the trump card issues really are.

Some of those topics can only be discussed if either aggressively moderated or tolerant of what people really want to say, whether or not it might be dumber'n dirt.

You can host what you like, but try not to be effectively irrelevant.

October 20, 2006, 04:47 PM
It's not in my junk/spam email folder...

I also tried the "send new password" function about an hour ago, no response for that yet either.

Edit: Just tried it again. No response. Should I PM you the information with which I tried to register?

Derek Zeanah
October 20, 2006, 04:50 PM
I see your info. Just PM me your desired password. :)

October 20, 2006, 06:21 PM
PM sent. Thanks.

October 20, 2006, 09:26 PM
I may be a bit late in suggesting a topic, but maybe a forum simply titled "common sense" dealing with simple solutions to what are considered complex problems in society, government, etc. Perhaps it would have to be moderated a bit.

I seem to remember that a gentleman made a big splash a couple hundred years ago with a pamphlet called common sense.

Derek Zeanah
October 20, 2006, 10:36 PM
Not a terrible idea.

I'm still mulling this over. My big interest is privacy, with a focus on digital privacy and anonymity. After thinking about this I thought "you know, there are a lot of topics that aren't THR appropriate that I could take to a new forum, and we'd both be better for it."

Then I thought further, and came to the conclusion that it'd be possible to build an actual community of like-minded people out there, and that what was needed was a balance in topics -- enough to cover some of the most critical issues, but not so broad that there was no possible chance of getting everyone into some kind of agreement. Abortion and the like - ain't something most folks can discuss rationally, and nothing anyone's gonna change their mind on. Same with women's rights, and minority rights, and gay marriage. Personally, I have no problems with any of the above, but I don't see the need to build a forum to advance those topics.

Right now, as I consider bedtime, I'm thinking that I might should start small - privacy matters, in that like the 2nd amendment it's sort of a requirement for meaningful change in this country (though not as extreme as the 2nd amendment solution), so that'll be there. Especially since I can contribute some meaningful articles and guides on the subject.

Property rights should probably be there (think asset forfeiture and emminent domain) -- big issues that no-one talks about. Victimless crimes are kind of borderline -- yeah, prohibitions like these are stupid, but I wonder if that's not more divisive than I'm looking for at the moment.

Taxation? Kind of getting off-topic, but it ties into the whole "big government" thing. Immigration, Iraq, and the rest? It's kind of like drug legalization -- you can make rational arguments for and against (most here know where I stand, I'm sure) but I kind of sense that these topics will require a lot of effort to keep under control, will cause division in the membership, and there's really nothing that can be done about them other than gripe.

Militia contacts and such? Nope - ain't gonna touch it. Read the site and you'll get ideas on how to build your own forum with that goal. Constitutional issues? I'm all for that discussion, but it tends to get into discussions of minutae that just don't matter -- I mean, we all know ex-post-facto laws are strictly verbotten, but that didn't help us with the Lautenberg amendment, did it? Same with discussing judicial issues -- I think it's time to grow up and realize the supreme court isn't going to be a savior on these sorts of issues. Minority rights and abortion? Sure. Property rights and limititation of federal powers? Keep dreaming, pal.

I'm not sure how to classify real-id, the loss of federalism, this whole feeling that we're in a rickety cart flying downhill at a faster and faster rate, ...

Maybe I'll be more clear in the morning. Love the ideas though -- if you'd rather contribute on the new site, that's fine too. Can't guarantee I'll keep your comments long, but I can guarantee this thread'll be locked once it's served its purpose. ;)

If you've got something you think you can contribute, PM or e-mail me. If I've got someone to write articles on a subject and it seems in-line with what I'm trying to do, I'd love to have the help.

October 21, 2006, 12:16 AM
would electronic voting merit its own forum?

i mean, it's not privacy and it sure as heck shouldn't be anonymity, but it is an interesting topic

Derek Zeanah
October 21, 2006, 09:28 AM
It is, but Jim March has that covered at blackboxvoting.org, and he's doing a helluva job.

(He's a member here, too.)

But yes, I consider it important. Just not enough to be a primary foccus.

October 21, 2006, 11:52 AM
ahh, well, jim was actually the reason i suggested it. i didn't realize blackboxvoting had forums; i thought it was mostly just articles and info.

October 21, 2006, 01:02 PM
Great idea. Tell me the domain and ill be there.

I think Vbulliten is the best idea for a forum. Its my favorite so far, and im guessing its pretty reliable. Just my suggestion though.

October 22, 2006, 02:53 PM
Just a thought - what about letting users, or perhaps users with more than x number of posts, create sub-forums the same way they post new threads - then that sub-forum acts ike a thread, ie disappears after so long without a new thread. That way original threads might stay on-topic, and tangentially-related topics stay close by in that sub-sub-forum, but not cluttering up the thread.

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