22 magnum as a self defense round


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vito
October 19, 2006, 08:00 PM
I have several guns that fire 22 LR, but have no experience with 22 magnum. Is this a useful round for self defense? What gun would you recommend for use of this round? I'm guessing that its not a popular defense round since I almost never see in mentioned in this forum.

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Geronimo45
October 19, 2006, 08:05 PM
Probably not mentioned very often because .22 mag seems to be relegated to rifles, not handguns (probably a revolver with an interchangeable cylinder for .22mag, 22lr, and there's the Automag in .22 magnum). The .22 magnum is seen as an overpriced 22 to some people.
If you use it for SD, try and find a revolver that takes it.

Timthinker
October 19, 2006, 08:32 PM
Vito,

Some years ago, I recall reading an article that addresses your question. From what I can recall, that article stated that a .22 magnum round fired from a handgun, with a barrel length of 5 plus inches, was comparable to a high speed .22 long rifle cartridge shot from a rifle. This should give you some basis for comparison. Some of our senior contributors may be able to verify what I have posted. Good luck with your inquiry.


Timthinker

1911Tuner
October 19, 2006, 09:44 PM
Hasn't been mentioned yet...in case you don't know and opt for a .22 magnum...The .22 rimfire S/L/LR ammunition isn't interchangeable with it in the same way that .38 Special ammo can be fired in a .357 magnum revolver.

Shawnee
October 19, 2006, 10:30 PM
Hi Vito...

Gotta say - there are so many rounds that are so much better than the 22 WMR I really doubt there is much real value in considering it for SD. Even the 22 long rifle probably gets a higher rating simply because you can get it in many fine automatics which provide firepower that (arguably) offsets the lack of cartridge power. I'd say, unless you're expecting an attack by the Keebler Elves, just politely salute the 22 WMR and then move on and buy something that was actually designed for SD in mind.

Local opinions may vary. :)

MachIVshooter
October 19, 2006, 10:31 PM
Is this a useful round for self defense?

More useful than a sharp stick, but far from the best choice.

While at work, I carry an NAA mini .22 mag with folding grip. The nature of my job requires something very discreet that cannot damage a finish if it contacts one. The folding NAA mini's look like thick pocket knives when IWB or in a pants pocket and have plastic belt clips, so they fit this bill. Only someone who knows what they are could identify one when carried this way; most people have neer heard of/seen one.

Any other time, I'm carrying a 10mm.

UncleBob
October 19, 2006, 11:09 PM
I would never carry a rimfire round for self defense unless it was the above situation.

roscoe
October 20, 2006, 01:34 AM
Ammo is very expensive for what it offers from a pistol.

sm
October 20, 2006, 01:39 AM
.22 magnum.

Matter of Perspective I suppose.

Bill Jordan was one proponent of the .22 Magnum in a snubby for defensive use at close distance.

weregunner
October 20, 2006, 02:22 AM
True. Bill Jordan was shown animals that were shot with the 22 magnum as well as cadavers. The extreme damage and long wound track were supposed to have been accomplished with short barreled revolvers(snubbies included). These were not contact shot wounds. He is said to have commented that the wound destruction was just as much or more than most centerfire handgun cartridges could accomplish. What loads were used to create the horrific wounds were not reported. Much info on what he saw was not included nor was there enough info to base any kind of relevant findings. At least not in the report in the gun mag I read. Makes the skeptic in me wonder if he was shown rimfire rifle wounds or centerfire round wounds and then have the cliamant give a false story. Could be a lot of pertinent data was left out somehow. Maybe others can shed light on this. He did recommend that based on what he saw officers should carry .22WRM snubbies as backups or off duty armament. Taurus 941s with 8 shot cylinders would have been better backed up with speedloaders. But, alas, there seem to be no 8 shot speedloaders available nor were any then either. If I counted on a rimfire revolver for defense I would rather it be the magnum over the 22 rimfire itself just on ballistics and and bullet weight. Have had to rely on the rifire for a few months as my defense round until .357 magnum revolvers were purchased due to funding. Budget concerns and people who are physically unable to operate a semi-auto may have to use a rimfire revolver. Plenty of documented cases in Rifleman magazine and Combat Hanguns in past issues prove this out. Especially senior citizens. So one has to make do with what they have on hand and can afford to operate.

makarovnik
October 20, 2006, 04:17 AM
Is a .22 magnum any more effective than the .22LR out of a snub-nose revolver or is the extra powder unburned?

1911Tuner
October 20, 2006, 11:33 AM
makorovnik...Theoretically, any increase in velocity or bullet mass will make a round more effective...theoretically. Will that increase be enough to make a telling difference? The answer is...maybe and maybe not.

Several years ago, a publication by Marshall and Sanow...which is NOT definitive, by the way...showed that there was a slight increase in effectiveness between the standard-pressure .38 Special 158 lead SWC over the158-grain lead RN bullet. About 2 or 3% if I recall correctly. I tend to feel that that would be pretty close, since the only real difference is in the SWC's flat nose. Since the RN's statistics placed it at about 50%, the increase wouldn't make a practical difference in the real world.

MachIVshooter
October 20, 2006, 12:40 PM
Is a .22 magnum any more effective than the .22LR out of a snub-nose revolver or is the extra powder unburned?

Ballistically, a little bit. 20-40 ft/lbs. from my 1-5/8 NAA mini, depending on brand.

Phsycologically, yes. MUCH bigger muzzle blast/flash. While I wouldn't count on that to stop the attack, it's bound to have some effect.

Headless
October 20, 2006, 12:58 PM
I've been considering getting one of those 8 shot .22 mag's as a BUG. I certainly would not want to get hit with 8 .22mag rounds at any distance from any barrel length. I think people underestimate the .22... the .22 can get the job done.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/wuornos/3.html
1. "...He had been killed with three shots from a .22."
2. "...Spears had been shot several times with a .22."
3. "The nine bullets found in the remains were damaged by the decomposition, but were determined to have come from a .22 caliber weapon."
4. "...He had been killed with two shots from a .22 caliber gun, one to the chest and one to the back."
5. "...Six .22 caliber slugs were recovered from his body; the seventh went through his wrist and was never found."
6. "...He'd been shot four times with a .22. "

Or at least, it worked well enough for her... and that wasn't even a .22mag. Granted, we don't know how long it took any of them to die, so i wouldn't exactly expect the round to be a quick stopper. That said, none of those 6 people in this case were able to stagger to help or even call anyone on a cell phone before dying.

MachIVshooter
October 20, 2006, 02:50 PM
the .22 can get the job done.

Yes, the .22 RF can kill you. Killing is not the point of defensive shooting. Your objective is to stop the threat as quickly as possible. Whether the BG dies or not is inconsequential, so long as he was stopped before you were seriously injured or killed. BG dying 2 days later in the hospital isn't going to help you if he split your mellon with a crowbar before going down.

rob_s
October 20, 2006, 03:30 PM
I carry a .22 mag NAA revolver when I absolutely can't carry anything else. I actually carry that rather than a Keltec in .380 or .32 simply because I have more faith mechanically in the NAA than I do in the Keltecs.

I also shoot the NAA in our IDPA bug matches and/or stages that we have from time to time. Not too shabby at contact distance.

JMusic
October 20, 2006, 05:01 PM
I get velocities in excess of 1400 fps out of my 4" J frame. In my Blackwidow with its 2" barrel I get aound 1200 fps. I stagger my ammo with the 50 grn federal and Maxi CCI load. As someone said its better than a sharp stick, much better IMO.

Jim

ronto
October 20, 2006, 05:04 PM
IMHO, a 22 Magnum out of a short barrel weapon is:
(1) Much more expensive to practice with, and if you use a 22 for self-defense you need ALOT of practice to get those head shots on a moving target.
(2) Makes alot of noise, so I guess you can frighten the BG to death with it.
(3) Is generally less accurate out of a handgun (see comment #1 above).
(4) Isn't SIGNIFICANTLY better than a good quality 22 LR hypervelocity round out of a handgun.
(5) And lastly, the 22 magnum round was developed for use in a long gun, not a handgun.

Headless
October 20, 2006, 05:07 PM
Yes, the .22 RF can kill you. Killing is not the point of defensive shooting. Your objective is to stop the threat as quickly as possible. Whether the BG dies or not is inconsequential, so long as he was stopped before you were seriously injured or killed. BG dying 2 days later in the hospital isn't going to help you if he split your mellon with a crowbar before going down.

I'm aware, which is why this statement in my post:

Granted, we don't know how long it took any of them to die, so i wouldn't exactly expect the round to be a quick stopper. That said, none of those 6 people in this case were able to stagger to help or even call anyone on a cell phone before dying.


None of these people got to a hospital and died days later. They all died at the scene. Without even calling for help, or stumbling to the road or anything else.

Confederate
October 21, 2006, 03:56 PM
Any time you can get more energy out of the barrel up to a certain point, it will benefit you in a defensive situation. The .22 magnum is a nice hunting round for small game and has been used successfully as a defensive round. Keep in mind that any rimfire will be less reliable than any centerfire. I've seen many stories of the Ruger Single-Six .22 mag being used against bad guys, even terrorists. Like the smaller LR, it enters the body, but doesn't have the energy to exit most of the time. That said, the .22s lethality is often greater than its initial stopping power.

If I were alone at night somewhere, I'd feel comfortable with a Ruger Single-Six .22 loaded with the magnum ammo.

Hobie
October 21, 2006, 04:02 PM
In certain circumstances the .22 WMRF may be ideal as a self-defense round. This is especially true when it is all you've got. Put it in a S&W 51 and you might have the ideal self-defense gun for somebody with certain strength or manipulative limitations. Such a person is probably particularly needful.

ModernTechnician
October 21, 2006, 04:49 PM
A few years back I had the privilege of knowing a tall gent that used to sell discount leather goods at gun shows through out the Southwest. I believe his business was called the Holster Lady (after his wife.) I must have purchased dozens of his holsters and belts and considered him a good friend.

At one gun show a very bad representative of the 2nd amendment community violated strict gun show rules and carried a high standard .22 magnum derringer loaded into the show. He then handed the loaded weapon to my friend asking him if he had anything for it and the idiot recalling that he hadn’t unloaded the derringer pulled it back by the trigger while the holster man had it in his grasp, scanning his inventory and bang the weapon discharged into his hip at an arms length. The round was a CCI hollow point one of the more efficient offerings.

The thing I recall most is that his response was to start packing up his inventory so that he could get medical attention without loosing any of his goods to thievery! He was a little disoriented and of course not very comfortable but he remained on his feet and had he been an armed evildoer he’d have killed the .22magnum wielder! (He was convinced to entrust neighboring dealers with his inventory and in fact attended the next day and continued selling leather goods without any losses!)

Some time ago I saw a huge capacity .22magnum autoloader replete with plastic frame involved in a local lawsuit for not successfully stopping an attacker. If I recall correctly 30 shots were fired, probably was a good example of a tremendous failure of planning and ability as much as inappropriate caliber! Note the words ‘tremendous failure of planning’ and ‘inappropriate caliber’...

‘Probably better than nothing’ is poor comfort in my neighborhood, a good .38 with wadcutters with regular practice would be far superior! And offers a chance to grow into the +P FBI loads that are appropriate for protecting ones self or loved ones.

My young lady and kids have no problem with carrying and using weapons starting with a 4 (.40 .41 .44 .45 etc.) It saddens me to hear that there are others that don’t believe they have that capability or common sense.

115grfmj
October 21, 2006, 07:09 PM
out of my 4 5/8" ruger sss, aint nothing to sneeze at. Power wise about the same punch as a 380 in a much smaller profile round. It also has an actual copper jacket unlike 22lr. I would guess that fmj would be overpenetrative, but sp would do nicely. Again not my choice, but if it's all ya got...run what ya brung.:D Also to those with stories of bad stopping power, consider this.
All of the most common defensive handgun rounds (9mm ,40S&W, .45 etc)
are anemic at best. You don't get real power unless you graduate to rifles
or SG's. That being said handguns in general are a compromise, do not expect the power factor of any handgun round to produce a stop. The only thing that will ensure a stop is getting your round to land where it will stop you attacker.

redneck2
October 21, 2006, 07:45 PM
I carry a .22 mag NAA revolver when I absolutely can't carry anything else. I actually carry that rather than a Keltec in .380 or .32 simply because I have more faith mechanically in the NAA than I do in the Keltecs.
I'm of the other camp. I've got a .32 Kel-tec as a pocket pistol. I've shot it slow fire, rapid fire, everything. Never failed to go "bang"

Load it with hyper performance .32's and it matches a 38 Special in performance.

Perfect?? no. Adequate? hopefully.

Personally, if I had a choice between a .22 mag and a .32 (or much preferrably a .380), I'd take the Kel-Tec in a heartbeat

That said, a .22 will drop a 1,200# steer as fast as the hammer of Thor if you whack 'em between the eyes. Done it several times at the meat locker.

YMMV

VA27
October 21, 2006, 10:54 PM
Re the 22 Mag handgun-22LR rifle debate, here are some chrony results using a 3.5" model 51 S&W and a 16.5" Marlin Papoose. These are 5 shot averages. (edited to add stuff)

22Mag
Win 45gr Dynapoint 1090 (119) energy (ftlbs)
Win 40grJHP 1172 (122)
CCI TNT 1428 (136)
Fed 50gr 985 (108)

22LR
40gr CCI Subsonic 1060 (100)
40gr Win Wildcat 1165 (121)
40gr Velocetors 1217 (132)
Looks close enough to me.

38Special +P 158gr SWCHP fired from S&W342 745 (195)

vynx
October 22, 2006, 12:26 AM
S&W 351PD under 11 oz - 7 rnds .22 mag

favorite .22
October 22, 2006, 12:35 AM
well out of a small pistol or revolver which would be better? ..22 lr,.22 mag, or .25 acp:confused:
well for a close encounter.

ChefJeff1
October 22, 2006, 03:02 AM
A friend of mine was shot with a .22. It went through his thigh and he drove himself to the hospital.

MachIVshooter
October 22, 2006, 04:51 PM
well out of a small pistol or revolver which would be better? ..22 lr,.22 mag, or .25 acp
well for a close encounter

Where revolvers are concerned, the feeding problems encoutered with rimmed cartridges in autoloaders are a non issue. That said, rimfire cartridges are known to be less reliable than centerfire. This reputation is probably due in no small part to the way your standard rimfire (.22 LR) is manufactured; huge quanitities, inexpensive materials. I would venture to say that .22 WMR is held to a higher standard. For one, they are of more conventional design (bulet diameter smaller than case dia.). Secondly, they use conventional copper jackets. Just compare a .22 LR cartridge with a .22 WMR and you will see the QC differences.

Between the three you mention, .22 WMR.

Between .22 LR and .25 ACP, I'd take the .25. Despite popular belief, the .22 LR and .25 ACP are all but identicle power-wise from short barrels (published .22 LR ballistics are generally taken from rifles). The .25 ACP has the advantage of centerfire reliability and the smoother feeding of a semi-rimmed cartridge, as well as better bullet construction.

ModernTechnician
October 22, 2006, 07:50 PM
Been through all of this debate before. Nothing I can say will dissuade the minimalists and know betters; even 3 tours of duty during the war in a Marine Recon Company or a career as a Police Officer.

Suffice it to say that

One: If you are forced to defend yourself it will probably be dark…

Two: You will probably have barely enough time to get a good shot off…

Three: Your opponent will probably have already self-medicated…

I pray none of you proponents of miniscule stopping power make a good enough argument that others might listen. Your own foolish death is sad enough, but convincing others to die the unnecessary death of a fool seems a sin of unimaginable proportion.

I’d suggest novices and the uninformed NOT pay any attention to this thread at all!

However I hope the bad guys adopt your position!

vito
October 23, 2006, 09:59 PM
I started this thread and nothing so far has made me think that the 22 in any form is a reasonable self defense round. I won't say I carry, since such is illegal here in Illinois, but if I chose to do so I will stick with my S&W 640 with 357 mag JHP rounds. If 5 of these won't do the job then I'm really in trouble.

runninmike
October 23, 2006, 10:58 PM
I would not chose a .22 mag for defense, but I would feel confident with it if I had only 1 handgun. They are deadly on coyotes and similar smallish varmints, and many folks use them for food gathering.
I personally find that my 9.5" bbl Ruger super single-six is dramatically more impressive on "potato exploding" than my Buckmark .22 lr is.
I also saw where someone did a velocity comparison that was interesting, and the long barreled .22 mag handguns like mine specifically were faster than .22 lr rifles. They are great for piercing doubles on gophers too!
Best-MC

rough rider
October 24, 2006, 09:23 AM
Whatever other posters might think.... I for one wouldn't want to be at the receiving end of one of those babies. Used to have a revolver in 22 magnum. I'd rather have it than not have it in SD situations. Just me...:)

p35
October 27, 2006, 02:33 PM
I used to have a Taurus .22 Mag snub. I traded it off because it was so loud it was painful to shoot, even with double ear protection. I'd rather shoot a .357 any day.

I don't doubt that the .22 Mag is a good round in a lot of ways, but I don't want one in a snub.

slabsides
October 29, 2006, 09:00 PM
I wouldn't question the expertise of any poster on this thread, but there are many of us that have more experience with the WMR than that of just a couple of guys shot around the edges.
The WMR is not to be preferred...of course! as a defense round. There are so many that are SLIGHTLY better. But I have seen enough wounds (on animals, one hastens to add) and sudden 'cessations' to have reasonable confidence in the cartridge IN MY HANDS. A man's gotta work within his limitations, says Harry. COM hits with a WMR have to be a powerful discourager. Some years ago I carried a High Standard derringer as a BUG and even a primary under certain circumstances. Never felt naked. Still here.

Lone_Gunman
October 29, 2006, 09:12 PM
A friend of mine was shot with a .22. It went through his thigh and he drove himself to the hospital.


A .45 ACP probably would have been no different.

Taurus 617 CCW
October 30, 2006, 12:34 AM
Previously quoted by Headless:
"I've been considering getting one of those 8 shot .22 mag's as a BUG. I certainly would not want to get hit with 8 .22mag rounds at any distance from any barrel length. I think people underestimate the .22... the .22 can get the job done."

Yes in one regard that is true. It wouldn't be fun to get shot with any caliber. On the other hand if the guy is hyped up on meth, me may not even feel the bullet contact from a gun of any caliber. In a situation like that it comes down to energy transfer or more specifically bullet mass times velocity. A bullet of 9mm caliber or higher are much more likely to cause the perp to bleed out faster as compared to a .22 WMR in general (shot placement disregarded). Modern hollowpoints only increase your chance for survival. For those reasons I use guns of the .4X persuasion most consistently. In the summer when there is a size restriction I use a .38 special loaded with +P gold dots.

ChiefThunderstick
October 30, 2006, 01:41 AM
There is only one way to drop somebody instantly. That is a direct hit to the central nervous system. There is no cartridge that can transfer enough energy to knock a man down. If this was not true, then when the shot was fired, the recoil would also knock down the person doing the shooting.

For various reasons assassins prefer the .22 high velocity in a handgun. Always 2 shots to the head. Cattle at slaughterhouses are dispatched with a bolt gun that is powered by .22 blanks. The lethal blow is administered to the medula oblongata.

All this being said, unless you can make a direct hit to the head, neck or spine, under pressure and fear for your own life, I would like every edge possible, in a self defense situation.

I carry a highly concealable .45 ACP pistol with CorBon 165gr. DPX ammo. When the weather or occassion doesn't permit I carry a KelTec P3AT with comparible ammo. It's all about COM and having any edge possible.

I do own a NAA convertible, bought it as a novelty. Keep it around the house with .22 CCI, in strategic location, in case I have to put one in somebody's snot hole.:D

Kestrel
October 30, 2006, 02:35 AM
After seeing someone shot five times in the torso, with a .38 special at point blank range and then running off and surviving, I can't imagine wanting to limit myself with a .22 of any sort. (And the guy was not intoxicated with anything.)

I know people have survived from being shot with just about every handgun caliber, but I certainly wouldn't want to add additional handicaps to the equation.

I would hate being pressed into a situation, where my life or a family member's life was in grave danger and all I had was a .22 because of my choice.

I think many that advocate it as an acceptable choice are relying more on misplaced feelings, rather than data or experience.

danang
October 30, 2006, 05:49 PM
I treated a deputy some years back who was trying to stop his wife from shooting herself with a .22 Mag derringer. It went off and hit mhim in the cheek, bounced off a tooth and the bullet came to rest under his tongue. Eventually he lost the tooth...but a hit in the head didn't faze him. He subdued the lady, got her care, and came to the hospital where after xrays and observation, he was placed on antibiotics and discharged to follow up. Ruined the .22 Mag for me as self defense, unless, you do as a friend cop had to do...screw the barrel end into the perps ear and pulled the trigger. That worked.

Lonestar
November 1, 2006, 05:44 PM
Vito: I brought up the same question a few month back. Here is a link to my old thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=212383&highlight=.22+magnum

Like everyone is saying, if you can handle bigger, get something bigger. If you can't, 22 WMR is not that bad. Problem is its rimfire, and in short barrels it is LOUD. Here is a link to some wetpack test from a Kel Tec site (#23), performance from a 4 1/2" barrel is not too shabby.

http://www.ktrange.com/articles/a10/a10.html

Inline_6
November 1, 2006, 05:55 PM
What? Nobody has made any 5.7x28 jokes yet? It is supposed to be the same as .22magnum. ;)

BigG
November 1, 2006, 05:58 PM
I had a K-22 MRF (Mod 48) with an 8 3/8" tube. It shot through and through holes through car bodies and doors. It was a little better than a lot of centerfire rounds, imho. YMMV

scottw
November 1, 2006, 07:54 PM
First of all Vito thank you for starting this thread. I think that VA27 summed it up. I use a 22LR for CCW. I do not need to defend the killing ability of the 22. I practice with it 2-3 times a week and 2-3 bricks a week. At this time I can empty a 10 round magazine (clip) as fast as I can pull the trigger and they will all be in a group under 2" at 10 feet. No sights on my pistol. Ground them off. I will promise you that at 10feet and under the 22LR from my pistol is going to bring the BG down period. I am working on a different shooting stance and holding position for this style of shooting and it is working well for me you can check out the thread on X dominant handgun shooting to read about it

roscoe
November 2, 2006, 12:53 AM
If Ruger made a Mk III in .22 mag, with a 7" barrel, that would be pretty cool, and a reasonably effective defense weapon.

Lonestar
November 2, 2006, 02:17 PM
What? Nobody has made any 5.7x28 jokes yet? It is supposed to be the same as .22magnum.

Why make fun of someone who bought a $700 to $800 handgun, that needs special order ammo at is over $20 a box, all of which will probably be illegal in 5 years if the Democrats take over. When that happens They will settle for the next best thing which will be a $200 Grendel or other cheap .22 handgun, and .22 Mag ammo you can buy in wallyworld for $6 a box.

It's like making fun of slow kids...it's kinda of mean.

sctj
February 25, 2007, 01:12 AM
I have a 351pd. Its a fun little gun. Almost no recoil. All the sound and fire everyone talks about isnt really there. Its really fun to shoot.

For self defense, I wouldnt want to get shot with it! I think it would be quite nasty at close range. However, I dont think it would stop someone with a single shot when high on drugs. Any sane, non drugged robber would stop quick, though!

If recoil is a real problem for ya, this gun would be easy to master and no problem to shoot. I have bigger guns I carry for self defense, if I think I really need it, but the 351pd is carried for everything else. I alternate rounds, one 22 mag, one 22 mag shotshell.

I love it, it feels like a toy gun. Loaded or not. It's light, easy to hold, easy to shoot.

Great for my younger kids to learn & get interested with!

Be armed, have fun with it

ARTiger
February 25, 2007, 02:34 AM
Anyone counting on using less than a .38 special/.380 or 9mm at a bare minimum to defend themselves against anyone threating them with enough harm to justify shooting in the first place is taking an unneccessary risk in my opinion.

There are just too many guns in calibers adequate for the job to fit any budget, purpose and size need to play with your life by using an inadequate caliber. If all you can get is a .22 then use it well - it's better than nothing.

However, if you have the means to get something bigger and still choose to use a .22, .25, .17 HMR, etc. for SD, then nothing said here is going to solve the fundamental problem of that tactic which is a just a deficit of good common sense.

rolltide
February 26, 2007, 11:27 AM
I agree with ARTiger(mostly), but that being said, I own a NAA 22mag/lr. It is a great little gun and has a place as a deep concealment BUG. I know one person who became a kidnap victim along with his wife while camping. Because he had a little 22 where no one could find it, he was able to get the drop on his kidnapper, stick it in his ear, and free himself and his wife. As a very small hideout kind of gun, the 22 mag is much better than the 22lr or the 25acp as others have stated. It is probably the best caliber for that purpose. I can velcro my little NAA 22mag into the top of a ball cap, put it on a chain around my neck, or stick it some place where nothing short of a strip search would find it. In some situations, it might be the only thing you can retain if things go bad. I also read another story of a scantily clad woman leaving a casino in the wee hours of the morning being stopped by a guy in the parking lot with evil intent. She produced an NAA 22 from a chain around her neck. The guy made some comment about a toy gun just before she shot him once in the chest at contact range. He ran off. She was safe. Police found the guy dead a couple blocks away. The lady in question had put one through the guy's heart. With a 22mag, shot placement is even more critical than with a larger caliber. If used at all for defense, one must realize the limits of the small caliber and use it accordingly (i.e. complete surprise at contact distance in a vital spot.) Not the best option when others are avavilable, but can be a life saver in some circumstances.

Roll Tide

defiant73a
February 26, 2007, 12:02 PM
The best I recall there was a North Carolina State Trooper named Coates who managed to put five (or maybe all six) rounds from his .357 Magnum revolver (loaded with 145-grain Silvertips) into a BG's torso at traffic stop gone bad. The BG got one .22 Magnum into Trooper Coates which stopped the hostilities right there. The BG survived. Trooper Coates didn't.

Maybe we all be careful with "horror tales" of cartridge failures. What you hit is still a whole lot more important than what you hit it with when it comes to handgun calibres.

Dirty Bob
February 26, 2007, 03:47 PM
Maybe we all be careful with "horror tales" of cartridge failures. What you hit is still a whole lot more important than what you hit it with when it comes to handgun calibres.

I can agree with your statement, in general terms, but if you could have a 9mm with JHPs or a .22, and you could shoot both equally well, which would you choose? I like to suggest that people carry the most effective cartridge they can shoot effectively and are willing to practice with. If that's .38 target ammo in a Model 10, or .380 in a Makarov, or .357 in a lightweight snubby, or .22Mag in a snubby, so be it. Do the best you can.

I find that the medium calibers -- 9mm and .38/.38+P -- can be mastered by the vast majority of people, and both can be very capable in good hands. If all I had available was a .22, then that's what I'd work with, but I prefer to try to stack the odds in my favor.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

defiant73a
February 26, 2007, 05:38 PM
While I don't own or carry a .22 Magnum, I'm not sure there are any firm "rules" (or "laws") when it comes to the effectiveness of handgun calibres (other than placement counts). Given good placement and adequate penetration, they'll work about equally well (but they're are many trade-offs between the various calibres).

Nomad, 2nd
February 26, 2007, 06:19 PM
I do NOT recomend a rimfire (Of ANY kind) for self defense. That said I carried a NAA .22 Mag before I was old enough to buy a REAL pistol.

Shameless plug: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=257869
The SA minirevolver is hard to cock (And can be dangerious under stress) at least this way you get off 2 shots...

p35
February 26, 2007, 07:39 PM
I've mentioned before the case I was involved in where a guy got shot in the hip with a .22 Mag from a Single Six- clipped both femoral arteries, ME said he probably lived about two minutes, but in that time he ran about 100 yards through heavy brush. Not really a stop in my book.

runninmike
February 26, 2007, 08:00 PM
My opinion is that a .22 wm is a fast effective round for it's intended purpose-small game. It shoots hard and fast, but from a handgun, it needs the longest bbl available to even begin getting into true .22 wm velocities.
Something that must be recognized is that even though it shoots fast and may penetrate well, it does not carry enough weight or width to do what we need a defensive cartridge to do with each shot-hopefully stop the attacker.
I have the long 9.5" ruger in this caliber, and it is excellent for causing gophers to literally pop in half, but this is not happens to larger game animals let alone a humans when hit with it. I would be wary to have to depend on it for defense, but I would if I absolutely had nothing larger. My SD calibers go from .38 +p thru .45 acp, and hopefully if it comes time to have to deliver, I will be looking down the sight of a shotty.
Best-MC

rockstar.esq
February 28, 2007, 02:18 AM
Stupid idea.

My faith in a CCW piece when it's caliber starts with a "4"..

I have a P32 that runs backup to my aforementioned piece mostly because it weighs so little that it's easy to bring along. As an added plus it gives me the option of arming my wife (non CCW holder) as well. At a bare minimum the 32ACP is a substantially superior round to the .22Mag but I'm really picking between turds here.

mes228
February 28, 2007, 07:54 AM
In my ignorant youth I killed one of the biggest whitetail deers I've ever killed with a Ruger Single Six .22 magnum. Absolutely bang, flop!! Dead on the spot.
The .22 magnum out penetrates .38 special easily. We had an old cast iron sign on the farm and I've shot it with several handguns. The only one that would penetrate it was the .22 magnum. I think they are very under rated. Wear hearing protection because they are painful and damaging to the ears in a hand gun.

defiant73a
February 28, 2007, 10:18 AM
As a rule, and as well illustrated in this thread, people tend to underestimate the .22 and overestimate their favourite calibre.

BigG
February 28, 2007, 11:09 AM
As a rule, and as well illustrated in this thread, people tend to underestimate the .22 and overestimate their favourite calibre.

Ditto - and although I never want to be shot at I would rather be shot at with a 45 auto than a 22 Magnum.

DAVE RICHARDS
February 28, 2007, 05:12 PM
The only reason for using the smaller calibers is if their is some sort of physical limitation that prevents someone from using a bigger caliber. A female friend has diminished hand strength from an injury. All she can shoot is a .22. Literally. So I got her a Ruger MKII. Loaede it with Stimgers and taught her to shoot with it. The best bet for her. 11 rounds of super hot .22lr fired from a very accurate gun that had a long barrel. Stictly a HD gun.
Most folks recommend nothing smaller than a .38/9mm and up. These calibers have loads which reliably expand and can penetrate deep enough to reach vitals. That's the most you can ask for from any handgun.

Dirty Bob
February 28, 2007, 08:43 PM
A female friend has diminished hand strength from an injury. All she can shoot is a .22

This, along with financial issues, are two reasons that I could see for choosing a .22. I wouldn't feel great about the choice, but if the woman mentioned above practices with the gun, she would be a formidable opponent for an attacker.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

Koblenz
January 15, 2008, 10:10 AM
I think the issue here is whether the .22 Mag is suitable for a small, highly concealable "mouse gun". Of course, a larger caliber would be preferable if you can conceal it, but in some cases a "mouse gun" is all that one can hide.

That being the case, the .22 Magnum is the better choice between .22 lr and .25 acp. It has the velocity to do serious damage with a head shot, which is where one should be aiming if armed with such a gun.

Halo is for Kids
January 16, 2008, 11:07 PM
22 Magnum from a North American Arms revolver with 1 1/8" barrel:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/NAAminiRevolver22Magnum.html
Shots were fired at 10" distance from the block - as such, impact velocities were not recorded.

Shot 1 - CCI Maxi-Mag HP +V 30gr, penetrated to 11.4". No expansion/deformation present.

Shot 2 - Winchester 40gr Semi-jacketed hollowpoint (part #X22MH), penetrated to 10.6". No expansion present.

Shot 3 - Winchester Supreme 34gr JHP (part #S22WM), penetrated to 11.0". Minimal expansion of copper jacket took place, no deformation of the lead inner core.

Shot 4 - Remington 40gr JHP (part # R22M1), penetrated to 9.0". No expansion present.

Shot 5 - CCI 40gr TMJ (FMJ bullet), thru penetrated the 16.0" block and was not recovered - estimated penetration depth was 12.5" plus some.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/images/22MagnumMiniRevolverBlock.JPG

doc2rn
January 17, 2008, 12:00 AM
I tried one of those $500 S&W 451pd's in .22 Mag, and it was never accurate at 15yds. The other I tried was the Taurus 2" 9-shot, it would hold a good group but it was too heavy for anything other than OWB. Too bad it went from $4 box to $10 I really like it in my Ruger 77 MkII.

Timthinker
January 17, 2008, 05:34 AM
A .22 Magnum handgun with a barrel length exceeding 5 inches seems comparable to a "hot" .22 long rifle bullet fired from a carbine/rifle. The only real gain for the .22 Magnum handgun here is that it is a more compact package. Think about the matter in the following manner. Is a .22 long rifle carbine what I would want to depend upon for self-defense? If you sincerely believe this is "good enough" for your needs, then a .22 Magnum revolver with the barrel length I described will suffice. Personally, I would want something larger. I hope this presentation has been useful in your search.


Timthinker

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