Possible AOW loophole for CA?


PDA






AJAX22
October 20, 2006, 02:54 AM
I posted this on calguns, (I don't usually cross post but I thought that there may be some people here who may have insight) It's been edited a bit from my original posting to clear it up a little.



If you were to take an off list AMD 65 Receiver (or AR15 Receiver), and file all necessary federal forms to create an AOW. then built it with no stock and a barrel length of 16 inches, a forward handgrip and, an overall length not quite 26 inches.

would it be exempted from California state 'assault' legislation?

since it has a barrel length of 16 inches and a forward pistol grip it wouldn't be considered a pistol by state or federal law.

since it has an overall length of less than 26 inches it would fall under the definition of concealable.

So if California says its not a pistol, and the feds say its not a rifle could I get a tax stamp and build it?

Assault legislation addresses rifles and pistols, but not alternative semi auto center fire weapons.

I understand that you cannot cut a rifle down to make an aow, I also understand that if you add a forward grip to a rifle that it falls under the ban.

what if it never was a rifle, what if it never was

made from a rifle (whether by alteration,
modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an
overall length of less than 26 inches


what if I transfered a bare receiver as an AOW from out of state and built it.

The california law seems to be aimed at regulating SBS and SBR, but it does not seem to address a limited window of AOW's

The law seems rather specific about defining what a rifle is, if the AOW (which in order to meet federal guidelines cannot be made from a weapon with a stock) was created to fall within this happpy medium, then it would not fall under the california state definition of rifle as it was not

designed or
redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the
shoulder


if its not a rifle, and its not a pistol, then wouldn't it fall outside of any assult weapon legislation?

It just seems like by being so specific in their definitions they missed a big chunk of nasty black federally regulated guns.

I hope I'm making sense with this.

Any insight would be appreciated

If you enjoyed reading about "Possible AOW loophole for CA?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
BSlacker
October 20, 2006, 09:38 AM
The basics are that in California when you purchase a serial numbered firearm it will be DROSed as a rifle or handgun that includes bare rifle/handgun receivers and actions. If it shoots a bullet it will be one or the other. You may not import AOW. That is what it is, you may not change a rifle DROSed firearm to a pistol to get around the AW laws. If that is what you intend. It has nothing to do with Federal laws. California has more restrictive laws. Having Fed forms is worthless in California. Hope you got a better more detailed answer on Calguns. :)

AJAX22
October 20, 2006, 10:17 AM
Is there a specific law which restricts the importation of AOWs into the state of California?

If I recall correctly, California law is written in a highly specific manner as to what exactly is banned, (it would have been alot easier for them to just ban all federally regulated firearms) I don't believe that california has a definition of AOW's which is why the penal code goes into such depth in defining and banning the features of rifles, pistols, and shotguns. I just don't think the framers of the law knew about AOW's

Thin Black Line
October 20, 2006, 10:23 AM
I'm not in CA, but I always find these threads are a warning as to what could
happen in the rest of the country.

BSlacker
October 20, 2006, 11:09 AM
On Calguns the answers seems to be, no. I would not depend on the warped mind of the county DAs in California or the legal advise on a forum with my firearms future. I can't see any Chief LEO in California signing off on that AOW form. If you got the Fed AOW in another state and moved here it might be invalid when you change addresses and you will need a new sign off, it ain't going to happen in California.
Anyway do you want to lose your firearms rights over this AOW. If owning a AOW is that important just move to a firearm free state. Moving is cheap compared to legal cost of this going awary.
If you are trying to prove a point and want to jab that point in the face of the California DAs then do it just send each DA and the DOJ a picture of the AOW you made Fed forms and all and a copy of your CDL and wait for nice men in uniforms/badges to show up because they will visit you. BTW they will bring their own SBR that are legal. You could be a test case. :)

wdlsguy
October 20, 2006, 09:51 PM
Be sure to read the "Note about California" in the NFA FAQ (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt).

I think you would need to start with a virgin receiver transfered to you as a pistol.

I can't see any Chief LEO in California signing off on that AOW form.
That is why living trusts were invented. ;)

If you got the Fed AOW in another state and moved here it might be invalid when you change addresses and you will need a new sign off, it ain't going to happen in California
You don't need a new signoff on your federal paperwork when you move to a new state. All you need is an approved Form 5320.20 (http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f532020.pdf).

50 Shooter
October 21, 2006, 12:07 AM
BSlacker has it right, the CAL DOJ isn't going to let us register AOW's, SBR's, SBS's or silencers. For that matter if you think they're going to let people own a .50 BMG M2 after the ban, try to find the dealer that will transfer it.

Like BSlacker said, the dealer only has TWO choices, long gun (rifle/shotgun) or handgun. This means that it has to fall into one of the catagories, the M2 will be viewed as a rifle by the state of CA. Plus it's chambered for .50 BMG which will automatically make it an AW in CA. If you want an M2 in Cali. go ahead and buy one, just make sure it's chambered for 50 DTC.

akulahawk
October 21, 2006, 01:18 AM
California DOJ would probably consider that a SBR. Not very many people in California have SBR permits. If you do what you describe and get caught, you're in for a very bad ride.

If you enjoyed reading about "Possible AOW loophole for CA?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!