Some statements I have been reading


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PlayboyPenguin
October 20, 2006, 03:12 PM
Just wanted to blow off some steam here about some things I have read on this board lately. They are not really bad things and the people that wrote them did not mean to saying anything controversial. They are just statements that struck me as dangerous. They are not being said by the majority of people but they are being said often in some threads.

To paraphrase I have been reading things like....

you should only need one gun
You shouldn't own a gun you don't shoot/carry
I would never buy a SA revolver because they are not good SD weapons
I wouldn't buy a gun that couldn't stop an attacker
attacks on people who we don't feel are carrying in the most profecient way to defend themselves
etc...

All of these remarks are pretty innocent but but they all lead to one thing in my mind. They over simplify why people buy guns. They turn them into "only for killing" items. They remove elements like...

buying one for the fun of taking it to the range
buying one for the beauty of the chaftsmanship
buying it to fill a spot in a collection
buying one because of it's relevence to American and family history
etc...

I just think that when they became a tool of self defense it becomes to easy for antis to just say "then get some pepper spray and a police whistle".

Once again I know the vast majority of people on here understand all the reasons for owning a firearm but some trolls and lurkers just love to read the negative stuff. Visit their boards. You will be amazed how many quotes they pull from here (sometimes out of context) and other gun sights to support their points.

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mpmarty
October 20, 2006, 03:30 PM
Yeah, but.... Playboy, You might remember that some of the folks here can only indulge in the necessary or what you might refer to as "basic defensive" firearms and lack the financial ability to go forth and acquire every gun that is special to them. In those cases I believe that one should carry enough gun, a gun you are absolutely familiar with, shoot regularly and that is as reliable as a mechanical device can be. If one can only afford one firearm, its choice becomes narrower than if you can afford many.

sm
October 20, 2006, 03:32 PM
There is more to responsible firearm ownership than firearms.

One of the biggest problems RKBA has, are its proponents doing more harm to themselves, than the Gun Control folks.

We seem to have a new crop of folks coming up, that are not as aware of the sum of the whole RKBA, instead focused only on the firearms themselves.

Software - not Hardware if you will, is the key.

Firearms are just the hardware part if you will.
We need to NEVER forget the Software part. Metal & Wood by Dennis Bateman expresses it so well.

It does not matter if you collect Curio & Relics, Shoot 3 gun, Cowboy action, Clay games with a shotgun, Shoot stees guns, or polymer...

Did you vote? Did you express your voice with Politicans? Did you take a new person to Hunter Safety class, NRA basic class, or take them out to shoot?

Did you read Ruark to a kid, show a person how to reload , or help them clean a firearm for the first time.

Did the wife go to the range with other ladies/ attend a training class and you stayed home and had quality time with the kids, fixed supper and assisted with their homework?

Gun Control never shows a dad fixing supper and doing homework with kids and mom at a training class.

This shows too much family values, reponsiblity and safety in the home by self reliant parents - and less government dependency.

PlayboyPenguin
October 20, 2006, 03:46 PM
Yeah, but.... Playboy, You might remember that some of the folks here can only indulge in the necessary or what you might refer to as "basic defensive" firearms and lack the financial ability to go forth and acquire every gun that is special to them.
That is completely understandable. I was in that boat myself most of my life.

However, some people try to make it sound like there is no need for anything else. Then they dismiss people who feel otherwise as being foolish.

Usually these comments are tongue in cheek and are fine but some people really attack others who have different views as to what criteria to use when purchasing a firearm. I can't count the number of times I have had to defend myself when I purchase something that someone else sees as a waste of money. Like I said it is usually just good ribbing but each time you get a few people that really have a stick up their bum and try their best to be hateful in their remarks.

vynx
October 20, 2006, 03:54 PM
You missed one reason - if you leave all that extra money in the saving account the wife will just spend it on shoes, purses and clothes!:eek:

So you may as well make your collection as well rounded as you can. Besides the chances of your firearms going up in value and being useful in ten years is much greater than your wifes shoes and purses!

I buy some guns just because they are good deals, or classics, just like any other collector if items. They will never be my SD guns but that doesn't matter they are still nice to have.

When it comes to SD --- SM has it right IMO software is much more important.

El Tejon
October 20, 2006, 03:55 PM
Playboy, relax, man, they are only opinions. People take them far too seriously.

In the gun culture the subjective is objective. Everyone believes that what works for them or what they saw in a movie or a gun magazine, works for everyone. Shrug and smile.:D

The other motivation is envy. If you openly discuss the guns you purchase or the training you take, there will always be envious and snide remarks. That's O.K., that's just human nature.:)

Mr White
October 20, 2006, 04:00 PM
Good post sm. It not just that way here. I recently quit hanging out at another board because I was getting tired of all the "He takes one step thru the door and he's getting in center mass. Let the cops figure out the rest." posts or the posts about how a .338 Lapua is really a necessity for "long range work". Like worrying about taking out a threat at 800+ yards is a concern most of us face in our everyday lives.

Everyone who applies for a CCW should be required to read "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoub and write an essay demonstrating comprhension of the content.

I also agree that guns build strong bonds within a family. Range time with my kids is something that I'll never trade, and it isn't just the shooting part. Its teaching them how to be safe, how to be smart, how to be responsible and make the right choices. All brought together under the umbrella of guns. Something the libs will never understand. Its OK for them to bond with their kids under the umbrellas of PETA rallys, Anti Bush demonstartions, or soccer games, but since we're doing it with guns, we're all knuckle dragging, wife-beating cretins. Go figure!

Eleven Mike
October 20, 2006, 04:10 PM
Playboy, if we could get anti's to admit that guns were useful for self-defense, we'd be half-way to complete victory. It is the idea that guns are only legitimate for "sport" or collecting that saddles us with laws that hinder carrying guns for self-defense.

In other words, I'm saying that you've got the issue upside down and backwards. Anti's already argue that police protection, mace, etc. are good enough for self-defense. And if you want to see how well the "I just like to have guns cause I like 'em" defense works, look to the UK, where guns are usually only allowed for target-shooting and collecting.

Can you link to some examples of anti's quoting this board? I'd really like to see how they react.

f4t9r
October 20, 2006, 04:16 PM
As long as people follow the rules of the forum , there is no harm in saying what they think or believe. No way are you going to agree with everything you read here. Sometimes you need thick skin and not get so wrapped up in what everyone else says. It is hard to do at times and I have done it before myself with some of the comments you get here. Thats what makes a World we are all different. Now lets go shooting !!!!!!!!

Majic
October 20, 2006, 07:45 PM
Unfortunately a lot of people are single minded about firearms. First it was handguns, but now it's spread over into rifles and shotguns. These people must have never been exposed to the other virtues of shooting so they just don't consider them. If your gun don't put a hole in someone or practice to do just that then it's useless. It would be nice if they learned that having fun plinking also helps to improve shooting skills. Targets are cheap (who pays for dirt clods or pinecones), range is what you make it (and you have to estimate it), and it's relaxing to most just to get out in nature. If they could see themselves walking thru the wood, drawing, and bouncing a pinecone on the ground for several shots then they could shoot that B27 target at 7 yards blindfolded and still score high. Now I know because of urban sprawl everyone don't have that opportunity, but a lot of them do it's that they just don't take advantage of it. Just because you pull the trigger in the back of your mind you shouldn't be thinking that someone should bleed.

Juna
October 20, 2006, 08:07 PM
Can you link to some examples of anti's quoting this board? I'd really like to see how they react.

I agree. I'd like to see what they quote and what their arguments are. It would benefit us all.

Everyone who applies for a CCW should be required to read "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoub and write an essay demonstrating comprhension of the content.


I'm sure you're just trying to make a point that people should be more educated about firearms (and I agree), but the RKBA is a right, not a priviledge. As frustrating as it is to have ignorant people owning firearms, it is part of the RKBA. If we start making more criteria and hoops to jump through, the antis will add even more hoops until the requirements and qualifications necessary for the "R"KBA will price it out of most people's reach and we'll lose it (kind of like the fees for suppressors were designed to do).

Mannlicher
October 20, 2006, 08:11 PM
penguin, take a deep breath, then relax. You are taking this whole BBS forum thing WAY too seriously.

Zen21Tao
October 20, 2006, 09:25 PM
The one thing missing is Penguin's post is the context in which these statements were made. For example, I could understand someone saying "[y]ou shouldn't own a gun you don't shoot/carry" if it is the context of the best weapon for concealed carry. I would not want to rely on concealed carry gun and not have trained to use it. In such a context, best weapon for self-defense, I can undertand someone saying they "wouldn't buy a gun that couldn't stop an attacker". I am not trying to start and argument, I am just saying that it is hard to condemn statements when you don't have the context in which they were made.

44AMP
October 20, 2006, 10:13 PM
Perhaps some of the sentiments are being take out of context. If you are in the handgun discussions, where self defense is perhaps the most prevalent topic, you are going to see alot of the kind of comments that are bothering the penguin.

I do agree that a lot of the posts throughout focus on firearms as weapons more than as recreational tools, but perhaps this is just because it provides for more stimulating discussion.

People can, and do go beyond the bounds of good taste on occasion. But I find this forum's concept, The High Road to be a good one. Some people just need to be reminded that's all.

Eleven Mike
October 21, 2006, 02:08 AM
Can you link to some examples of anti's quoting this board? I'd really like to see how they react.

I agree. I'd like to see what they quote and what their arguments are. It
would benefit us all.
I just think it would be good for a laugh.

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