[Gunblade]

I've been reading about deferent forms of "chemical" defense.
http://www.macebrand.com/index.php?main_page=index
These include:
Pepper Spray (Fog & stream)
Pepper Gel
Pepper Foam

certain models have handles.
http://www.macebrand.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_16&products_id=58

Which of these are best for quick and decisive use?:confused:

[erich w]

I've found that the best mace imo is the gaurd alaska brand, granted its made for bears but as yyou can imagine it works just as well on people, its a fogger with a 20 foot range and it hoplds 9 seconds worth of spray, you can find it at: http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/animal/bear.htm it may sound crazy using it on a person but yoiu can't argue with results.

[Coronach]

www.foxlabs.net

It sent three people from my academy class to the hospital. I was one of them (a chemical burn on my cornea, my eye was gummed shut the next day). It is pretty evil stuff.

Mike

[Gunblade]

Thanks.
I am leaning more toward gel or stream to reduce the risk of the wind blowing the spray back in my face. Is this appropriate?
(My area is getting increasingly windy:( )

[The Deer Hunter]

as long as it has a good powerful spray i think you would be fine.

BTW can you eat the 100% OC spraY?

[Tim Burke]

+1 on the Fox Labs.

[Coronach]

I've only ever used streams. As much as they blow around, I'd never ever consider a fogger.

Never used gel, and foam doesn't seem to bring anything to the table above and beyond what stream does.

JMO,

Mike

[Gunblade]

I've heard the myth (on television) that oc sprays are "practically" edible. However, I wouldn't try to eat a debilitating chemical:rolleyes:

note: the gel (as advertised) has a range of 18-25 feet, has "pin-point" accuracy, and is more stable in windy condition (presumably since it is heavier).

[Gunblade]

Is a pistol grip or the "firemaster" better for quick off the belt draws (from a spray holster) or is the normal can configuration adequate?

Which is easiest for an beginner to use and retain?

[erich w]

the pepper is probably safe but the alchol used as a base in them I'm not sure of so I wouldn't try it.

[Vermonter]

Foggers have an advantage in that they are more likely to be inhaled by the target. This is more likely to get them to actually not be able to fight.

[kkille1lsu]

For woman: pepperface.com

[Reyn]

When i was certified as an instructor in OC we were told FOX was the best. My dept uses freeze +P.Ive heard of foam being thrown back at you. No personal experience with it. I like stream better than fog.

[copaup]

Fox is the hottest, fastest acting, and nastiest stuff I have had experience with. Out department issues Mace brand 5.5% OC with 1% CS for everyone and a 10% OC Foam for CIT officers. I sprayed a very violent mental consumer (he'd been beating a woman with a baby, as in the baby was an impact weapon) and neither spray had any effect whatsoever. This is unusual, but it happens. In fact, after we finally subdued him and got him in the car he started kicking out the doors and I applied a second dose of the 10% foam so we could hopefully get into the car and restrain his feet. He looked at me, praised Satan (literally), stated it didn't hurt and then opened his mouth, caught a huge mouthful of the foam, swallowed it, licked his lips, and said it was good.

I'm a big enough man to admit it. This dude scared the bejesus out of me. He also rocked me with a beautiful left hook early in the fight. My trainee came out of nowhere and knocked him off of me, saving me from a serious whuppin. First perfect score I've ever given a trainee in any category on their evaluation. It ended up taking 5 of us to finally get this guy cuffed, and he'd been hit by 2 cars before we even encountered him, smashing ones windshield and roof in with his body.

Moral of the story, OC is good and usually works. Be ready to go to alternate methods if it fails.

[Coronach]

^^^ That's a Bad Day at the Office, right there.

Mike

[enfield]

I carry a 2 oz, stream, flip-top Fox 5.2. I bought them for my family also.

www.defensedevices.com in Memphis is a good mailorder source.

[Gunblade]

To copaup: :what: :what: :what: :what: :what:

To Coronach : you don't say:scrutiny: ...

Everyone: thanks, looks like it's FOX brand for me. What about the grips?
Are they interchangable?
I mean when one can is used up:( can I just get a refill and put my spray top on it?

[Coronach]

To Coronach : you don't say ...:D That's what we say around here when something completely bizarre and/or dangerous happens, but everything worked out OK for the cop. It works particularly well when the guy involved is telling the tale.

"Wow, Bob. That was a bad day at the office, huh?"

"Yeah. I need a freakin' beer."

Mike ;)

[Gunblade]

wonderful:rolleyes:

[hso]

kkille1lsu,

Welcome to THR!

How'd you find us?

[Matt_W]

The MACE gel performs well in a breeze and it sticks to the target making the pepper stay longer in contact so should increase it's affects. It also creates less cross contamination because the pepper is never airbourne and after the event the clean up is simple because the gel is easy to see wherever it happen to land.

Being a gel it also helps to phyiscally block the vision while the pepper starts to do it's work.

[Gunblade]

cool.

That's exactly what i was hoping for:)

[NeveraVictimAgain]

I fell it is my duty as a good THR member to echo and emphasize what "copaup" said.

I was attacked by two determined aggesors in a case of mistaken identity. At the time I was armed only with Mace (tm) brand, which stated it contained "5 % pepper spray". At the time I was too naive to ask "five percent of what?" My first assialant continued to whack me with a baseball bat. As another interesting note, I blocked these swings with my forearm, even though an "expert" in self-defense states a blow with a baseball bat "cannot be blocked." My first assailant then stopped and escaped the scene.

My second assailant then started swinging another baseball bat at me, striking me near the temple on the left side of my skull, a very potentially lethal blow. I finally managed to escape. The ER doc was amazed I wasn't knocked out. The second perp was later picked up by the cops. I was told they had to carry him into the police station because he could barely breathe. It still didn't do me any good. The cops later had the nerve to tell me I shouldn't carry a gun, "the best thing to get is pepper spray."

This may be why it clearly stated on the package that Mace (tm) may not work against drunks/druggies, the enraged, or the psychotic. It was certainly my experience.

I have been a member of this board for some time now and it is generally agreed that "Fox" brand is the best. I need to remember to order some of the Net, it isn't available in my area. I still carry the only brand of pepper spray I can find here, only as a non-lethal alternative to my trusty Kel Tec P-11 and with the very clear understanding that I will not depend on either one to be 100 % reliable.

[Gunblade]

I agree completely.

I would like to get a CCW permit, however where I live (on the east coast), in order to get such a permit your life must be in danger, you have to be an LEO/security officer, or you have to "know someone"...

I'm currently working on becoming a security officer, but a CCW is not in my foreseeable future:banghead:

So I plan to add a G&P R500 and a Telescopic baton to my belt as backups.

anyway, FOX brand stream it is.;)

[jderrick]

Well, I hope this doesn't seem juvenile, but some friends and I actually did a little experiementing with some 15% red pepper spray ("The Neutralizer") this weekend....

I've got some friends who carry this sort of stuff for defense. This was about 50% educating on how well it works and 100% adolescent stupidity, but....

http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c23/jderrick/?action=view&current=Peppersprayexperiment.flv
(http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c23/jderrick/?action=view&current=Peppersprayexperiment.flv)

Truthfully, the finding of the "experiment" was that while pepper spray causes significant discomfort (trust me -- imagine a hot, hot chili in your eyes) it will not stop somebody who's bound and determined to do something (like tackle my buddy, the objective I was trying for). So for folks who carry pepper spray as a defensive measure (or at least this particular brand, under these particular variables...), they need to realize its limits.

Now this was only a single test with a single type of spray... so I don't have all that excellent a scientific sample.... PLEASE, PLEASE, note -- some folks may have used more effective stuff or have better advice. But I feel at least slightly more educated, and just thought I'd share my humble two-cents....

A friend has since offere to do an experiment regarding the stopping power of his .45 and I have respectfully declined....

[Gunblade]

Thanks. I appreciate any advice given.

As for testing the stopping power of the .45...did he want to do that at "defense ranges" or point blank? :p