Wal-Mart raised .45 ACP prices again!


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Black Majik
October 21, 2006, 12:07 AM
Dang, this is getting rediculous. Went to buy some .45 ACP WWB value packs, and it went up a lot per box

Now its at $25.61 from its previous $23.88.

I can swallow the $2.00, but I have a feeling we're up for quite a few more increases before the year is over. And I shoot quite often, so these small increases will definitely hit my pocket hard. :fire:

How many increases did we have this year now? From $19.97 to $20.xx, $21.xx, $22.xx, $23.xx to $25.61. What is going on with ammo prices to increase this much across the board?

Ouch. :o

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Hanzo581
October 21, 2006, 12:14 AM
it is $22.88 here, hope they don't raise it everywhere

daysleeprx
October 21, 2006, 12:20 AM
Yep...just got a box here in the Houston area for that price. :mad:

carterbeauford
October 21, 2006, 12:21 AM
WWB .45ACP is marginal ammunition at best, I don't bother with it anymore.

Do what I learned to do and buy in bulk. Even Wolf .45ACP steel case gives me less FTFs than WWB, and that's bad. Cabelas sells Remington UMC in bulk and it is quality ammunition.

Onmilo
October 21, 2006, 12:25 AM
Just order some Black Hills Ammunition Company remanufactured hardball.
Better ammunition and about the same price, even with the shipping.

Buck Nekkid
October 21, 2006, 12:37 AM
The best solution is, of course, reload your own!

Kruzr
October 21, 2006, 12:52 AM
Have you been saving the brass from all those WWB purchases? If not, start now. ;)

Deaf Smith
October 21, 2006, 12:52 AM
Don't like Walmart? The answer is DILLON. Get a Square Deal B in .45. When the commercials are on TV, go crake out 25 rounds. You can have a 200 round practice session done in just a few hours that way.

P0832177
October 21, 2006, 01:11 AM
OTD prices using Cabelas as source, you can reload 45ACP for about 125 per K vs 250 for WWB equivalent. Now you can save 40 on that price using cast lead bullets.
Everything has gone up. Powder seems to have remained stable locally.

Beetle Bailey
October 21, 2006, 01:16 AM
Buy .45 Auto in bulk at the next gunshow. You pay less per round and you save time and gas by not having to make so many trips to Wal-Mart. Use the money you save to buy that CZ 452 you want so bad! :neener:

No_Brakes23
October 21, 2006, 01:17 AM
Gee, at these prices you might as well get it at a gunstore.

auburnman
October 21, 2006, 01:20 AM
I work as a gunsmith part time a local gunshop. Ammo prices (wholesale) have increased 24% since Jan. 2006. Only look for price to continue to increase.... Lead hit an all-time high just a couple of weeks ago at 65 cents a pound... up from 45 cents a pound in late spring.

Auburnman

Crawlin
October 21, 2006, 01:24 AM
I reload now for about $5 a box of 50. That works out to about $100 per 1000. I get right at 1000 rounds out of 1 pound of powder. It makes a huge difference. The problem is, now I shoot more...For all the equipment I bought, I have made the cost up in about 1800 rounds.

Bullets - Rainer plated 230 grain(500) - $32.99
Powder - Accurate #7(1lb) - 14.99
Primer - CCI Large Pistol Primer(1000) - 19.99
Brass - Range pickup - Free

Crosshair
October 21, 2006, 02:18 AM
Blazer Brass ammo is getting to be a better price.

Remander
October 21, 2006, 02:29 AM
My local Academy Store has been out of Blazer 45 for more than a month. I did buy a "family fun pack" box of 250 rds of UMC 45 ACP.

They mentioned that 9mm was also getting tight, but they recently got a few cases in.

"Gimme a case" was my immediate reaction. Their 9mm has gone from $3.98 or so to almost $6 in the last few months.

I also bought 1,000 rds of 30.06 surplus recently.

I feel like some sort of paranoid nut, but I have been socking away ammo like crazy in the last few months for economic and political reasons.

I figure it's not getting cheaper or easier to buy anytime soon. May as well lay in a good supply.

RON in PA
October 21, 2006, 02:46 AM
What has been happening is the law of supply and demand with the basic raw materials of cartridges. The demand and therefore prices for copper, brass and lead has been going up because of increased use by China and India.

real_name
October 21, 2006, 02:55 AM
That was the case that the price of copper was high because of new markets, I remember a few threads here about it over the summer.
There was a whole lot of fuss that the main supply (is it Chile?) country was sitting on stocks to artificially inflate the cost.
Then a few weeks ago I was buying 1/2" copper pipe in Lowes and i noticed it had gone down in price again. Just as an indicator a 2ft length was about $3 in February '06, it went up to $12 in August.
Electricity cable went down too, it got pretty high but not as bad as the companies bit some of the increase themselves, I'm told that was the case anyway.
Add to that the fact that shipping is now cheaper as gas is a lot cheaper than over the summer and you have a scenario where ammo should be going down in cost, not up.

Ala Dan
October 21, 2006, 08:24 AM
Unfortunately, the ammunition market is very unsteady right now; meaning
that the price you pay today, may not be the same as tomorrows price.
Lots of factors enter into the equation for ammo company's~!:eek:

Lou629
October 21, 2006, 09:54 AM
Lots of factors enter into the equation for ammo company's

Yeah, like pure B/S and greed maybe? Just as with the price for gasoline that can never be fully explained away when it increases dramatically or decreases dramatically as is the case now.

The price for gasoline is down by a third at the retail level, commodities markets for copper and brass, etc, are all down from their highs, and yet the prices for ammo, delivered to your friendly neighborhood store continue to escalate.

There are currently a half dozen or so reasons (read:excuses) that they give for the increases with the price of ammo lately: "Oh! The price of copper!" "Oh! The price of brass!" "Oh! The cost of transportation!" "Oh! The war is causing a shortage!" "Oh! The liability insurance increases for gun related businesses!"....all of it pure Bravo Sierra.

What they should be saying is:

"Oh! We retailers and wholesalers want to raise profits and price gouge just like the really big boys at the oil companies do!"

"Oh! And by the way, since we realize that we have a nearly captive audience in our customer base, we know we can raise our prices to the most that the market will bear, at will, just like the really big boys at the oil companies do!"

Kharn
October 21, 2006, 10:07 AM
Lou629:
If the cost of lead went up over 30%, expecting ammo to stay the same price is pretty unreasonable. You cant expect a manufacturer to absorb that cost and not pass it on to the wholesalers, who will in turn pass it on to retailers and then the customers.

Kharn

Vitamin G
October 21, 2006, 10:11 AM
Yeah, like pure B/S and greed maybe? Just as with the price for gasoline that can never be fully explained away when it increases dramatically or decreases dramatically as is the case now.

The price for gasoline is down by a third at the retail level, commodities markets for copper and brass, etc, are all down from their highs, and yet the prices for ammo, delivered to your friendly neighborhood store continue to escalate.

There are currently a half dozen or so reasons (read:excuses) that they give for the increases with the price of ammo lately: "Oh! The price of copper!" "Oh! The price of brass!" "Oh! The cost of transportation!" "Oh! The war is causing a shortage!" "Oh! The liability insurance increases for gun related businesses!"....all of it pure Bravo Sierra.

What they should be saying is:

"Oh! We retailers and wholesalers want to raise profits and price gouge just like the really big boys at the oil companies do!"

"Oh! And by the way, since we realize that we have a nearly captive audience in our customer base, we know we can raise our prices to the most that the market will bear, at will, just like the really big boys at the oil companies do!"

Actually, i think its totally feasible considering that the cost of metals WAS up, PLUS the cost of actually trucking the product across the country (gas).

When supply goes down or demand goes up causing the prices to rise, let the free market come up with a way to compensate and have demand for wal-mart ammo go down...
RELOAD!

Lou629
October 21, 2006, 10:21 AM
Yes, i agree with you, but look at what the prices of commodities have actually been doing. When the prices of commodities and gasoline DECREASE by the same % ( the same prices that are covered in one or two of the excuses given in my first post ) AND the prices continue to RISE, then i don't see anyone being unreasonable but the wholesalers and retailers. You are being spoon fed a line of pure B/S and you appear to be defending them! Don't volunteer to drink the kool-aid!

bender
October 21, 2006, 10:23 AM
in my opinion, anyone who shoots a lot should reload, as many others have already stated.

It doesn't take a lot of room. I built a small reloading table back in the 1980s that I still use. Its only 36" wide, and maybe 20" deep. And I'm still using the same Lee 3-hole Turret press from the 1980s.

It takes a little time to get the hang of everything... but you can practice loading "dummy" rounds - no primer or powder - to get the hang of seating & crimping...

skynyrd1911
October 21, 2006, 10:24 AM
Copper is up.....I've been doing a little metal salvaging on the side. Copper & aluminum or the heavy hitters. I made enough money to buy a new rifle & scope in about two months. It's an easy way for me to buy ammo also.

Dravur
October 21, 2006, 10:33 AM
but econ 101 is your friend. Wal-mart does nort raise prices just because they feel like it. They work with market forces just like every other business. When their costs go up, they pass it on to consumers. <also, think about that next time a lefty wants to raise business taxes.... Ask him where corporations get their money. It makes for an easy econ test.>

Wal-mart sells on a margin. They need to make a set percentage from an item to allow it's sale. Some things they will put on sale and use as a loss leader to draw attention to their store. When Wal-mart raises it's price, it more than likely had to as the dirstributor had to raise their prices. When it comes to ammo, the cost of trucking a small, but heavy item has increased as well as the materials costs. When the cost of gasoline comes down, there is a lag in the market where items in the chain still cost more due to fuel expense as the expense for the fuel has allready occured. The lead got mined at a higher fuel cost, the brass was forged at a higher fuel cost.... When fuel prices drop, it does not go backward in time and lower the cost of fuel allready spent on these items. Does this surprise you? This same phenomenon happens to metals. The metals were purchased at varying prices. If the price 6 months ago was higher for the metals used to actually manufacture the rounds, then that gets passed to you, 6 months down the road when the rounds are put on sale. Did you think the ammo was magically made the same day that it was put on sale? The Keebler elves were working nights to make the freshest ammo? This is called lag and it is built into the market and the ammo manufacturers have to deal with it like everyone else and they have to pass their costs on.

btw, Wal-mart's strategy is to offer the lowest price possible and sell a buttload of it. So, Wal-mart did not decide just to pump up the price of a box of ammo to teach a lesson to gun people. If they are going to sell something, they want to sell alot of it.

Now, as to the cost of crude oil and "Big Oil". I know the conspiracy theories are spinning in your brain, but it really is simple, Oil is a commodity and is fungible. In other words, it matters not where oil comes from. Fuel, will go to the highest bidder, regardless of where it was found, barring shipping costs. The "Big Oil" companies that lefties like to rail against like Exxon for example make roughly the same amount on a gallon of gas no matter the selling price, taking out short term fluctuations. Oddly enough, Exxon, who leftists love to jump on for making obscene profits and demogogue like crazy made a 10% profit in fiscal 2005 and a 9% the year before.... They just sold a lot of fuel. Google, on the other hand, made a 41% profit in fiscal 2005. Funny, you don't see the lefties flapping their gums about Google making an obscene profit.

Now, the one thing you don't hear the lefties yakking about is.... Who made the most money from a gallon of gas? Yep, the Government. Both State and Federal Government make the most out of every gallon of gas, and they have no expenses relating to its sale, where-as Exxon et al, have to take into account exploration costs, refining costs and have to worry about the futures market etc.

There ya go, a quick econ 101 lesson.

Lupinus
October 21, 2006, 11:13 AM
thanks for summing that up drav

45Badger
October 21, 2006, 11:45 AM
And add to that the velocity or time in the supply chain system. Gas spends a heck of a lot less time "sitting on the shelf" (than bullets or other hard goods).

The futures markets determine raw material cost. The oil/gas bought at last quarter's higher values has already gone from producer to end user. The bullets whose lead/copper/etc was bought at those higher values may not even be made yet, much less through the system into your local retailer.

There tends to be a lot more volatility and faster swings (up and down) on products that have consistent, very high consumer demand. If bullets were as popular as gas, most of us could not afford to shoot:eek:

James T Thomas
October 21, 2006, 01:26 PM
I tend to agree with Lou629 on this one.

When Walmart became big; a market force to be reconed with, it insisted that it's vendors provide the ubitiquous bar coding on all it's shipments and products, or not supply to Walmart. Well they caved in as we all are aware of and so today we have the RFID imbedments, the grocery chain "advantage" cards, etc. All begun by seemingly innocuous Walmart. "Have a good day."

My supposition is that big, powerful old Walmart is attempting to set market prices, and particularly on ammunition! Oh, yes, "compteition" keeps the prices down, but just try and compete with Walmart and the biggies. They can hold out while the little guy strangles, and by transferring losses from one division, and spreading it out amoung many other profitable divisions, time is gained until the smaller business are exhausted.

Some of the theories of "Economics 101" are being made retro right before our eyes.

I'm not old enough to having lived through the economic era of monopolies, but from what I've seen of the twentyfirst century, the corporations have nullified and bypassed all the old regulations, have infiltrated our government protections, and are busy expanding and consuming everything in their path.

That goes for the demise of the firearms and ammo companies also.

cedjunior
October 21, 2006, 02:42 PM
On one hand we have numbers, long established trends, and facts supporting the "Supply and Demand" argument. On the other hand we have conspriracy theories, opinions and suppositions supporting the "Greed" argument. I'll go with the supply and demand argument.

Lou629
October 21, 2006, 05:12 PM
Google made a 41% profit in fiscal 2005

I don't use or buy anything from Google, so i don't feel the effect of having my pocket picked by them. I do however directly feel the effect of being fleeced by the likes of exxon, Walmart or Dicks' Sporting Goods, for that matter.

Wally World does currently have about the best pricing around on ammo. However, that price is at least 30% higher than it was last year at this time, and the commodities that you mention, along with gasoline, have all gone down in the past 6 months.

By using your theory and argument then, we should see a 30% reduction by April. Fat chance! If anything, they'll think of another excuse to raise the prices even more. I am willing to bet more than lunch money on that outcome. PM me if you like. :)

SoCalShooter
October 21, 2006, 07:20 PM
Ordering online is usually cheaper or you could do what I do and load my own...only cost me 55 dollars for 500 200gr SWC lead bullets....roughly costs me about 15cents a round to manufacture them myself. (I think)

WayneConrad
October 21, 2006, 07:57 PM
See you over in the reloading forum, friend. :)

SoCalShooter
October 21, 2006, 07:58 PM
I will check it out.:)

atek3
October 21, 2006, 08:42 PM
Dravur, thanks for saving the 20 minutes typing up a well reasoned response such as yours. Despite it however some people still want to believe in "gouging and greed", oh well, not everyone passes econ 101 their first time around...

atek3

distra
October 21, 2006, 08:53 PM
If you get into reloading, which I did 'cause my wife and I both shoot, try http://www.precisionbullets.com. These are cheaper than FMJ, Polymer coated so reduced lead exposure, safe for indoors. 2K 230gr RN for $130, Midway had 2K 230gr FMJ Raineirs for $160. Save your brass;) I ran a calculation (spreadsheet can be found in the reloading forum) and it will take ~4 months of shooting to recover the cost of the press. I found a used one on Ebay. Good luck.

George S.
October 21, 2006, 09:49 PM
Wally World can't really be blamed for the increase in the price of ammo. Metals like brass and copper are going up in price and that eventually hits ammo makers and then the buyers.

I reload a lot of .45ACP and I have figured out that I can reload for about 60% of the cost of new ammo like WWB, Federal, S&B, and UMC brands in 230gr FMJ. I buy 230gr Rainier coppercoat FMJ and W231 or Unique for .45 and my Lee turret press cranks out hundreds of rounds at a sitting with no effort.

Any of these brands seem to work equally well in my Springer 1911 or Taurus PT145. WWB is just as accurate as the others, and outside of being slightly dirty, I tend to buy more of it than the other brands and keep the brass for reloading.

Hanzo581
October 21, 2006, 10:13 PM
ok with all this talk, I have a pretty basic question, if I want to start loading my own .45 acp how much would the initial start up cost for the machines?

lowest cost possible

dragongoddess
October 21, 2006, 10:17 PM
Stopped by my local Wally World to check out this price increase stuff. CCI Brass .45ACP is still going for $9.97 for a box of 50 230 grain FMJ. No price change here.

Bruce333
October 21, 2006, 10:19 PM
ok with all this talk, I have a pretty basic question, if I want to start loading my own .45 acp how much would the initial start up cost for the machines?

lowest cost possible

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=18835

reload? to save money?

Bwahahahahaha!!!

That's like getting a C&R to save money!

Joe Demko
October 21, 2006, 10:23 PM
The Demoncrats, Feminazis, NAMBLA, Librals, ACLU, Brady Bunch, and Bill Clinton are all, somehow, to blame...and libertarians are also to blame for not doing enough to stop them.

SoCalShooter
October 21, 2006, 10:27 PM
Depends on how much you want to spend and how many bullets you want to do.

A brand new Dillon Super 1050 will run you about 1400 for just the press, then you need dies in different calibers or just one caliber, the press will usually come with one die of your choice.

http://www.brianenos.com/store/dillon.1050.html

http://dillonprecision.com/default.cfm?

You will want:

1.Bullet tray
2. maintenance and spare parts ( i loose and break stuff)
3. Primer tubes, you will want atleast two of LP and SP
4. You may want a case feed plate in different calibers
5. Powder checker
6. Universal mounting kit
7.more more and etc

Granted the 1050 is an commercial grade loading press but once you get the hang of it and get rythm you should be able to do about 1000+ rounds in an hour if you are quick.

Hanzo581
October 21, 2006, 10:28 PM
I will just stick with the store bought stuff ;)

SoCalShooter
October 21, 2006, 10:31 PM
From the link from Bru


Steve Smith quote:

"#1 Don't get into reloading if you just want to save money. Chances are great that you'll spend just as much as you already do on ammo, but you'll shoot a lot more. Either that or you'll go off the deep end (like may of us) and start experimenting with expensive components to see what will happen "if."

Aguila Blanca
October 21, 2006, 10:32 PM
ok with all this talk, I have a pretty basic question, if I want to start loading my own .45 acp how much would the initial start up cost for the machines?

lowest cost possible
If you exclude used equipment (which can be a bargain), the least expensive entry into reloading would probably be the Lee "Anniversary" kit, from someplace such as Natchez Shooting Supply. For around $85 or $90 you get a single stage press, a couple of case holders, a scale for weighing powder, and a basic reloading manual. Add dies for the caliber you want to load and you're in business.

But the press in the Anniversary kit is a single stage press, meaning you have to run a number of carrtidges through one step in the process, then stop and change dies before performing the next step. A turret press is faster and a lot more convenient.

Kentak
October 21, 2006, 11:23 PM
Thank goodness there's no shortage of tin foil.

K

distra
October 22, 2006, 12:00 AM
Hanzo,

Dillon 550B new with .45 dies and shell plate $365, scale $40, calipers $20, primer flip tray $20, so under $500 to get you started. You could do what I did and find a used one for that price with all the trimmings + couple die sets, powder measure, etc. Check out the stickies on the reloading forum.

Hanzo581
October 22, 2006, 12:06 AM
hmm...I may actually look into it, thanks

Dr. Dickie
October 22, 2006, 06:07 AM
The bottom line is:
If you aren't re-loading, you either TOO RICH or you AREN'T SHOOTING ENOUGH:evil:

Lupinus
October 22, 2006, 11:50 AM
if you go to midwayusa.com they have a kit which will allow you to do everything you can with the annaversary kit, but comes with a turret press.

Costs the same as the single stage kit with modern reloading so you will have to get a manual seperatly.

May want to check your local library and pick up a copy of a reloading manual, many seem to have the abc's of reloading.

Zen21Tao
October 22, 2006, 02:09 PM
Wow, so much Walmart bashing for raising their prices. I remember when Walmart was lowering prices all the complaining that they were lowering prices to drive small businesses under. I guess Walmart just can't do right by some people.

So I guess if the cost of gas, cost of lead, lost of brass, cost of powder, and cost or primers are going up Walmart should allow its already low profit margins to fall and keep prices the same. Sorry guys, that's not how capitalism and economics works.

cedjunior
October 22, 2006, 03:38 PM
However, that price is at least 30% higher than it was last year at this time, and the commodities that you mention, along with gasoline, have all gone down in the past 6 months.

Zinc prices are up 224% (http://www.stockhouse.com/shfn/article.asp?EdtID=18829) since Jul 2005. Copper 106%. Lead 81%. Those are some big numbers, you'd expect more than a 30% increase in the cost of ammo.

wally
October 22, 2006, 03:48 PM
Best ammo prices in the Houston area has been at gun shows lately. Got a case of Aguila 230gr FMJ $189/1000 (+tax). Ranger SXT JHP has been $19/50 out the door.

You can try www.ammunitiontogo.com, the dealer out of Brenham, TX that makes most of the larger shows. Don't know what they charge for S&H, "need more ammo" is a great excuse to to to another gunshow :)

--wally.

redneck2
October 22, 2006, 04:10 PM
For the guys that aren't reloaders...

I can get (last time I checked...been a while) .45 acp bullets for about $30/500. Makes reloads about $5 per 50.

Instead of asking the cheapest route, ask the best route. A good progressive (Dillon 550 or Hornady L-n-L) and absolutely everything you will need will run $500. Do yourself a big favor up front and forget "cheapest". With a progressive, you can load 8-10 boxes per hour.

If you save $10 per box, it only takes 50 boxes and the loader and all the other stuff you need is free. If you shoot something like 45LC or 10mm, it pays back way, way faster.

Look at it this way...if you had enough components, you could load enough in one morning to pay for the reloading equipment. Makes the math pretty simple.

Dravur
October 23, 2006, 12:08 AM
Ok, it seems we need a refresher course, so here goes.... I had no idea that Wal-mart, Exxon, et al had their collective hands in your pocket, Lou. I was not aware that they could force you to shop at their store or buy their fuel. It must be great having the power to force people to buy at Wal-mart, etc. Unfortunatly, reality steps in..... Wal-mart cannot force you to shop there..... Simple, isn't it? Exxon cannot force you to buy their fuel. They cannot even force you to buy any fuel whatsoever. You can walk, bike or take a bob-sled. They cannot even force you to kiss a puppy. See? simple.

Wal-mart, Exxon and every other business are out to make a profit. Is the 10% that Exxon made in 2005 excessive? hardly. Is the profit that Wal-mart made exscessive? No, because, they are in business and that is what businesses do. I don't begrudge Google for making it's profit. They have to compete as well.

As to the bar-coding and other things Wal-mart does to hold down prices at their distributors, they do this to lower the COGS and to keep the prices low. This way, the consumer comes to their store and not to others. The reason the distributors will pretty much drop trou and kiss Wal-mart's tushie is that if they can get their product sold at Wal-mart, they have it made! If you can get your product sold in Wal-mart, you may make a smaller margin, but you will sell millions of units, thereby making a much higher profit than you would selling more traditionally. If all I had to do to get my merchandise into Wal-mart was to put a bar-code on it, I would hand draw it on with rare giant squid ink.

Now, back to the lesson.... You are free to shop wherever you like. I am guessing that if Wal-mart is raising their prices, everyone else is too. If not, go shop somewhere where you like the prices.

Oh, and if metals prices fall and fuel prices fall, you can bet the price of the ammo will fall eventually. That is what Wal-mart does. They know that if they don't, Big 5 down the street will undercut them and they will not sell as many units fast enough.

BTW, your homework assignment is.... Look up the word Fungible and be prepared to discuss it's use in the case of Crude Oil.

Oh yes, and I like Peanut butter and Honey sandwiches for lunch, it just sounds good, on a nice potato bread.

ImprezaSTI
October 23, 2006, 04:00 AM
I love shooting my 1911 but I'm starting to like my 9mm Glock alot more now. :(

White_Wolf
October 23, 2006, 12:05 PM
Dillon 550B new with .45 dies and shell plate= $365
Scale= $40
Calipers= $20
Primer flip tray= $20
Falling in love with a new hobby= Priceless

Iím afraid to start reloading. Iíve heard from the reloading forum here that itís very addictive. Itís a hobby all its own.

So take a look at how much you spend on your gun hobby, and realize reloading is going to be your second hobby LOL. Reloading sure does sound fun though. I just love studying ballistics!

As for why the price of ammo has gone up: If indeed the metals that make a bullet have gone up, than the price of manufacturing a bullet will go up accordingly, and thus the price inflates accordingly from the manufacturer to the distributor to the store selling it to you.

Also, the price of oil makes the distribution of everything go up accordingly. And letís not rule out the ever present supply and demand factor. Maybe more people are buying guns and shooting and thus sucking up more ammo.

Also, as mentioned earlier, just because the price of the materials that went into the bullet have recently gone down, this doesnít mean that the items that were being made during that time can go back down at this very moment. Itís called ďlagĒ.

And the fact that due to our federal reserve money, the value of the dollar decreases at a constant, and is made up for by raising minimum wage, which ultimately devalues the dollar even farther add infinitum.

But, to those who are laughing at the conspiracy angle of it: for a good while now gun control activists have been lobbying congress to pass certain laws that would force redundant government enforced inspections at every turn of gun and ammunition manufacturing, and certain taxes raises, thus increasing the cost of guns and ammunition. And it will all go under the guise of ďsafety regulations to protect the peopleĒ. I can only believe itís just a matter of time before the lobbyist get these laws passed.

Also, price gouge, monopoly, cartel, arenít science fiction terms like, photon torpedo, hyperspace, and phaser; they are real terms because these things are real events. Industries do price gouge when they feel itís the profitable move to make.

You must realize that a corporation has no heart, no soul, no humanity, only the unquenchable thirst for more money. The owners of a publicly traded company are not under the lawful obligation to be nice, or humane; they are under a lawful obligation to maximize profits for the share holders. No corporation is going to lower its prices for the sake of being nice to their customers; it simply isnít the nature of a capitalist corporation.

Lou629
October 23, 2006, 02:33 PM
Oh yes, and I like Peanut butter and Honey sandwiches for lunch, it just sounds good, on a nice potato bread.

So that's the extent you're willing to bet?? :neener:

I stand by my last offer of a bet: By using your theory and argument then, we should see a 30% reduction by April. Fat chance!

So, I'll be expecting your PM then, telling me how much you'd really like to wager that ammo prices won't be even higher next spring, while the commodities, gasoline & diesel continue to fall, right? :evil:

Also, price gouge, monopoly, cartel, aren’t science fiction terms like, photon torpedo, hyperspace, and phaser; they are real terms because these things are real events. Industries do price gouge when they feel it’s the profitable move to make.

^^Couldn't have said it better myself White Wolf

TimboKhan
October 23, 2006, 02:39 PM
Interestingly, my local Wal-Mart was selling boxes of .45 silvertip for $8.50/box in thier clearance case the other day. They still had some in the normal case, and the clearance boxes had been ripped, so evidently that's the only reason they were on clearance.

mogunner
October 23, 2006, 02:57 PM
All calibers are going up in price here in my area. If you can find good cheap ammo anywhere, buy it, cause its only gonna get higher.

redneck2
October 23, 2006, 07:21 PM
Hey....I've got a great idea. Start a chain of stores yourself and drive big evil Wal-Mart out of business. While you're at it, sell stuff lower than your cost. That way you can save the American consumer. You'll be an international hero and make tons of money...

oh wait, you're selling at less than cost. Hard to make tons of money

You can whine on the internet all you want about prices. Until you either reload or quit shooting, there's little you can do about it

Dr.Rob
October 23, 2006, 09:05 PM
One of many funny walmart ammo stories:

Dad and I are picking up some shotgun shells (a few weeks after the LA Riots) and dad decides to stock up on buckshot, as Wally world has it on sale.

Kid behind the counter says, "we sure do sell a lot of this stuff, what's it for?"

Dad says, "badguys."

We have a chuckle leaving the now palefaced Walmart kid looking confused and worried.

I've had good luck with Wally world, 45 acp was ALWAYS expensive, Walmart had a short run of making it cheaper.

Robert Hairless
October 24, 2006, 03:17 AM
White Wolf:

You must realize that a corporation has no heart, no soul, no humanity, only the unquenchable thirst for more money. ... No corporation is going to lower its prices for the sake of being nice to their customers; it simply isn’t the nature of a capitalist corporation.

Juvenile twaddle.

There are many kinds of corporations, including 501c corporations--"non profits"--that exist to distribute money, not make it. An accusation that none of those has a heart, a soul, or humanity, and "only the unquenchable thirst for more money" must be based on a peculiar mixture of ignorance and cynicism.

Of the corporations intended to provide a structure for businesses formed with a profit-making motive, a great many are closely held by families and friends who operate them on ethical principles. Anyone here who is a shareholder in such a family-owned and -operated corporation (such as a Subchapter S corporation that might exist to protect a craft shop, carpentry, or other small business) should feel offended by your sweeping generalizations.

It is not unusual that even for-profit corporations lower their prices for people who cannot afford to pay full price for necessaries. Nor is it unusual for corporations, including WalMart, to contribute to charities. In fact WalMart distributed water and essential supplies to the devastated residents of New Orleans and other areas hit by Hurricane Katrina. Volunteers for charitable events are often fed free-of-charge by for-profit corporations, and a great many large corporations match the charitable contributions of their employees.

Despite your rather narrow beliefs, neither corporations nor capitalism is inherently heartless, soulless, and inhumane, and there is nothing evil in an intent to make money from doing business, practicing a profession, performing services, or working for an employer in return for payment.

People who work for a living rarely turn down the offer of a raise in salary, and many people try to earn as much money as possible during their working lives. They are not heartless, soulless, or inhumane either.

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