Shooting at the Tulsa gun show.


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PinnedAndRecessed
October 21, 2006, 07:20 PM
At about 8:30 Saturday morning. They were carrying some guy out on a stretcher when I got there. Report was that a total of three people were shot.

Seems a dealer "dry fired" a 410 shotgun while aiming it at the floor. The pellets bounced up and (according to vendors in the area) hit one guy in the head, one in the arm, and one in the side.

One of the guys hit was elderly and had some heart problems. He was the guy on the stretcher.

Other than that, it was a great show.

The police had the area taped off and nobody could get through. Glass everywhere from shattered display cases. Sad.

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Cromlech
October 21, 2006, 07:22 PM
Well, as we all know, a gun is always loaded. At least he had it pointing at the floor, and at least it wasn't a 12Ga.

Dmack_901
October 21, 2006, 07:24 PM
I'm just going to ask, "Who loaded it?"

and leave it at that.

PinnedAndRecessed
October 21, 2006, 07:31 PM
I'm just going to ask, "Who loaded it?"


When I was living in **********, there were anti gunners reportedly going to gun shows, loading weapons that they could (plastic ties, and all), and walking off.

Sick.

atek3
October 21, 2006, 07:39 PM
When I was living in **********, there were anti gunners reportedly going to gun shows, loading weapons that they could (plastic ties, and all), and walking off.

i'm gunna call bs on that unless you can post a link.

atek3

PinnedAndRecessed
October 21, 2006, 07:41 PM
No, I don't have a link. That was what was rumored.

SaxonPig
October 21, 2006, 08:23 PM
He said "reportedly" meaning it was a rumor. I have heard that rumor, too. Was at a show many years ago (in CA, no less) when a rifle was fired into the ceiling. Dealer swore the gun was unloaded and that he didn't even have ammo in the correct caliber.

I don't know but I wouldn't put it past some people.

jad0110
October 21, 2006, 08:30 PM
Wouldn't find it to be surprising if it was true. Afterall, you've got diehard tree huggers spiking trees where loggers are working.

P95Carry
October 21, 2006, 08:32 PM
I was at the April show and as folks know who have been - it is BIG!

However - security struck me as very good (considering) and I left my piece in the truck but I would not have expected any problems - but this shows that at very least someone was either not very diligent or - someone had a .410 round and loaded the darned gun.

I cannot see any guy running a table being this lax - so it does leave us wondering?! It could obviously have been many times worse.

George S.
October 21, 2006, 08:43 PM
The local gun show requires all firearms (even CCW weapons) that are on the show grounds to be unloaded and a zip tie or similar device to be installed that keeps the action open. For some semi-auto weapons, the action is closed and the tie prevents the action from being opening.

Guess it's a relatively safe way to keep rounds from finding their way into chambers. I do see some people asking to work the action, but the vendors usually refuse. When the do allow it, a replacement tie goes back on. There are show staff members who walk around to check to make sure that the white zip ties are in place. They sell replacement ties to those who have a firearm on display (whether or not it's for sale) and there is no tie present.

Those people who do not comply are asked to leave.

Marshall
October 21, 2006, 08:53 PM
I live here.

I've been going to this show for years. I can't see any of the vendors having loaded guns. Something happened though. Maybe it was a gun someone brought in for sale and the man didn't check to see if it was loaded first? Maybe it was a setup? I don't know but I imagine we'll hear more.

My first thought on this when hearing it on the local news, other than being glad I wasn't there today, was damn, more food for anti's. It wouldn't surprise me.

PinnedAndRecessed
October 21, 2006, 08:55 PM
Wouldn't find it to be surprising if it was true. Afterall, you've got diehard tree huggers spiking trees where loggers are working.


And burning down housing developments, and blowing up SUV dealerships.

SuperiorMarksman_18
October 21, 2006, 08:56 PM
I remember after Columbine there were a few anti gun protesters at a Hampton gun show I went to.

sm
October 21, 2006, 09:10 PM
I am having a hard time seeing how this happened at the Tulsa Show.

Chris, Larry, others and myself know - Tulsa takes some of the Best if not the best precautions!

Vendors and Dealers check guns, zip tied and all in getting set up, before the public ever enters. Folks entering have two lines, one with firearms, one without. If with a firearm, it is checked and zip tied.

Upon leaving, again two lines, no guns, or if with a gun, again, it is checked for zip tie and such.

I have never seen anyone, vendor, dealer, or public, every have ammo near or around a firearm. Not even snap caps.

Tulsa impresses me with everyone going above and beyond watching out for each other, in safety and in "other areas". Like "some folks" wandering around perhaps in tripping someone up.

No, My gut suggests a set up from a anti. It really does.

SoCalShooter
October 21, 2006, 09:17 PM
I have heard the same rumor. I check all weapons at gun shows before I pick them up. And I would not put it past the anti gun people to do this to show that gun shows are "UNSAFE".

It is unfortunate accident and I am sure the police will leave it at just that an accident since there is no way really to prove foul play, but the booth operator who was about to dry fire the weapon "SHOULD" have checked the chamber.


"myself" I have never picked up a weapon that I have not personally checked the chamber I wont even accept a weapon where the chamber has not been checked in front of me and I will not look over or check out a weapon that I dont check the chamber even after it was just done right in front of me. I am extremely anal about it and I get a lot of questions why I do it. "Better to check twice then get shot once."

992
October 21, 2006, 11:58 PM
I was at the Mike Holloway show in Knoxville,Tenn.,five years ago,when a friend had some tables there.I looked at a Sig 229 he had that was nib,checked it out ,checked the mag AND the chamber,just out of habit,to be sure it was empty.This was before you had to use ties on all of your guns.
I came back after walking around maybe 30 minutes later and asked him what the best he could do on the Sig for cash.While we talked, I picked up the pistol,racked the slide back,and a WINCHESTER bLACK tALON FLEW OUT OF THE CHAMBER.He said several people had looked at the pistol after I left,but no one looked suspicious at the time.
That proves that some people don't care who they kill or hurt.It could have be a child,woman,or anybody standing in front of it when somebody had dropped the hammer.
Trust NO ONE ,chech for yourself.

992

mosttoyswins
October 22, 2006, 12:22 AM
I am of the opinion that even though some a**hole anti may have loaded the gun purposely, the shotgun should have been checked and double checked to make sure it was unloaded before dry firing.

Basic gun safety. :banghead:

dogsoldier0513
October 22, 2006, 12:35 AM
Jacksonville Gun Show, ca. 1990, Prime Osbourne Center: A DEALER fired 1 round of 7.62NATO through the roof from an M60 LMG. He was arrested and transported to jail. No injuries. It was right after the show opened. I was a deputy sheriff at the time in an adjacent county and was present. It happens.....

Wesker
October 22, 2006, 12:46 AM
About the only reason you need not to attend dumb hick gunshows.

mosttoyswins
October 22, 2006, 12:53 AM
About the only reason you need not to attend dumb hick gunshows.


Easy there killer, I resemble that remark.

I have got a lot of great deals and met a lot of nice people at "dumb hick gunshows".

brm3601
October 22, 2006, 11:02 AM
Shotgun blast hurts two at gun show
By CLIFTON ADCOCK World Staff Writer
10/22/2006

View in Print (PDF) Format


Two men were injured Saturday morning at the Wanenmacher's Tulsa Arms Show at Expo Square when a vendor accidentally discharged a shotgun.

The men, whose names were not released Saturday, suffered only minor injuries, officials said. Investigators will forward a complaint against the vendor of misdemeanor reckless handling of a firearm to the Tulsa County District Attorney's Office.

The vendor's name was not released Saturday.

Joe Wanenmacher, the gun show's manager, said the vendor was examining a double-barreled .410-gauge shotgun that he thought was loaded with a snap cap. A snap cap is a nonlive round that allows the handler to dry-fire the weapon without damaging the firing pin or the firing pin holes.

However, when the vendor pulled the trigger, the shotgun fired a blast through his display case, Wanenmacher said. The pellets ricocheted off the floor and struck two men standing nearby, he said.

Cpl. Jerry Holloway of the Tulsa County Sheriff's Department said investigators recovered one spent shell and a live shell in the gun's other barrel.

One of the victims was wounded in the back of the head and the other in the right side of the abdomen, Holloway said. Both were taken to St. John Medical

Center, where they were treated and released, he said.

Wanenmacher said loaded guns are not allowed at the show.

"This would have never happened if the exhibitor had been following the rules," he said. "It was something that could have easily been prevented.

"We will pack him up and move him out, and he will not be welcome back."

When handling a firearm, Wanenmacher said, safety should always be the top concern: "A good rule is when handling a gun, assume it's loaded, even if you know it's unloaded."

In 1994, a similar accident happened at the Tulsa Gun and Knife Show when a vendor accidentally fired a .45-caliber pistol. Investigators said the bullet ricocheted off the floor and struck two men in the feet.

In 2000, a 10 mm pistol discharged as a man was unholstering it at Wanenmacher's Tulsa Arms Show. The bullet struck the person next to him in the leg.

OEF_VET
October 22, 2006, 11:20 AM
About the only reason you need not to attend dumb hick gunshows.

Hey, stud, you might want to reconsider that remark, as I, and certainly others on the board, find it EXTREMELY offensive. Comments like that will ensure that your stay here will be very short-lived.

mons meg
October 22, 2006, 11:26 AM
He obviously didn't look at the cars in the parking lot at the Tulsa Expo center.

Zen21Tao
October 22, 2006, 12:55 PM
I know of a gunstore where a bullet was sent from a distributor with a bullet in the chamber. A guy was looking at it and the owner told hime to "give the trigger a pull." When he "dry fired" the gun it went off and the bullet grazed the guys finger. The next day the gunstore owner shower up at the guys house and took him to the hospital to get checked out and gave him the gun he was looking at.

Double Naught Spy
October 22, 2006, 07:14 PM
When I was living in **********, there were anti gunners reportedly going to gun shows, loading weapons that they could (plastic ties, and all), and walking off.

This is a common rumor that crops up frequently after gun show NDs, usually by folks who don't know what went on and simply refuse to believe gun owners could ever screw up, so it must be the anti-gun people doing this. The really poor part of this "rumor" is that it crops up time and time again and never seems to ever be shown to have any validity. Of the events in the Dallas area gun shows of which I am aware (and one for which I was present) all the NDs were clearly performed by dealers or patrons, the NDs being the result of their wrongful actions (such as a dealer discharging a carry gun that he didn't have checked, another working on a gun for a friend while at the show, that was not checked).

Maybe antis go around loading up guns at gun shows? More like maybe gun owners, dealers, and patrons screw up. Why is that so hard to believe? When hunters get shot in treestands, we don't blame antis for shooting them. Usually they manage to negligently shoot themselves or a buddy negligently shoots them. Point? Gun folks can and do make mistakes.

SoCalShooter
October 22, 2006, 07:18 PM
I semi-resemble that remark, being a hick does not mean you have a lack of respect or safety when handling guns. there are evil forces out there and we call them the anti-gun lobby and they will stop at nothing for power.

sm
October 22, 2006, 07:41 PM
Thank You for Post #21

"This would have never happened if the exhibitor had been following the rules," he said. "It was something that could have easily been prevented.

Four Rules of Firearm Safety - Always.

Tulsa has addtional Rules of Safety as well. Exhibitor broke more than one rule.

I do not care if WE, are alone at home, at a gunshow, club, range, in Law Enforcment, Military or taking a training class. You can whine, bitch , piss and moan all you want about the rules. Don't like them - I do not want you near or handling a firearm,- simple as that.

I do not appreciate snide remarks about "hick gunshows" either. Tulsa is one of the biggest, and most respected gun shows in the country. Many vendors do not show, except in similar, top notch guns shows of same quality.

I really do not appreciate snide remarks for a bigger reason. Division amongst Folks that like firearms. Division among Shooters. Division among RKBA.

All over the world, folks read THR and similar sites. WE have fence sitters not sure about Firearms, personal safety, much less RKBA.

We have Antis. Yep, pretty sure some are reistered members on THR and other gun forums. They wait for US to divide ourselves then use it against us.

Honest, I do not want some folks around firearms, matches, cars, kitchen stoves...etc... computers and Internet.

Cannot do the Rules of Reponsiblity - then leave these things alone, Please, for the Safety of others until you can grow up and act responsible.

--

I do not know how many Shotguns Larry Ashcraft and I checked out Tulsa one year. Every single time, I, Larry , the Vendor handled one, I mean in front of each other we checked. Guns were zip tied on the tables. We'd set one down, with a zip tie, we all checked again. Heck we did not get offended, instead appreciated and respected by us all.

Marshall
October 22, 2006, 08:18 PM
About the only reason you need not to attend dumb hick gunshows.

All you accomplished by opening your mouth was proving the dumb hicks you speak of are smarter and much more polite than yourself because that was truly a dumb and rude thing to say.

It's better to appear stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. (A variation of Mark Twains quote.) You might chew on that for a while.

Wesker
October 22, 2006, 08:37 PM
Yea, sorry about my dumb hick comment. I was pretty drunk when I posted it and just being stupid. Sorry about it. It's very uncharacteristic of me and I apologize for it. I didn't think it'd get such a sore response and that some folks wouldn't be real mad at me, but instead upset that it may cause a rift in the pro-gun community. I had never even considered that.

Goes to show that booze and gun forums don't mix :D

It's better to appear stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. (A variation of Mark Twains quote.) You might chew on that for a while.

My grandmother said this to me, and shes from Georgia. I just love southern wisdom! You'd never guess more than half my familiy is from Louisana and Georgia.

hso
October 22, 2006, 08:51 PM
Wesker,

You're waaaay off base with the "hick gunshow" remark in 2 ways.

The Tulsa show is a national level show. It draws people from all over North America to attend it. It is one of the top 3 militaria shows in North America as well.

There safety rules are no more suspended at "hick" shows than at large gun shows in New York City. Wait, I don't think they have large gun shows in New York City. Well Califorina, wait again, since they ran the Great Western out of California there's not a show that has half the vendors or attendees as Tulsa in that state either. Well, regardless, hick gunshows have the same safety rules as any other show. No loaded weapons, no loose ammo, follow the 4 safety rules.

Wesker
October 22, 2006, 09:00 PM
I apologized. I can't take back what I stupidly said, all I can hope for is those who took offense will forgive me for saying it.

sm
October 22, 2006, 09:05 PM
Wesker,

I appreciate your public apology. I accept.
You took The High Road in doing so - thank you!

:)



Steve

tulsamal
October 22, 2006, 09:18 PM
This is a common rumor that crops up frequently after gun show NDs, usually by folks who don't know what went on and simply refuse to believe gun owners could ever screw up, so it must be the anti-gun people doing this.

I guess my gut says the truth is somewhere between the two positions. No doubt, some shootings happen because some gun person was being an idiot. But it does seem like guns on tables at gun shows somehow "load themselves" over the course of the event. I've been at a gun show where they came over the PA to announce someone had just discovered a formerly unloaded .44 Magnum was now loaded. They wanted all the dealers to stop and check every gun right now. The logical conclusion is that "somebody" put that bullet in there. It doesn't have to be "anti-gun" people trying for negative publicity. More likely it is basically a form of dangerous vandalism. Sneak around the show slipping a bullet into a gun here and there and wait for the boom and all the excitement. About like an arsonist. Some people just don't have very healthy minds. Or can't seem to see the possibly fatal consequences of their irresponsible behavior.

Gregg

Hardtarget
October 22, 2006, 09:18 PM
I go to the shows here in Mid-Tn...I like the one in Smyrna. I watch the hands when I'm at any table. If I EVER see someone load a gun you can bet I'll be VERY vocal...and physical! Nothing would please me more than to help collar an "anti" trying to get me killed at a gun show. :fire:
Mark.

Marshall
October 22, 2006, 09:26 PM
Wesker,

Thank you sir. Apology accepted. If we ever meet, I'll buy you a drink, we'll just stop short of the point of stupid drunk. ;)

Larry Ashcraft
October 22, 2006, 09:29 PM
Wesker, thank you.

Now, back to the subject at hand. I seem to recall a death resulting from a accident at the Tulsa show several years ago. I'm not sure how to search for a link though.

Given the sheer size of the show, 4000+ tables, 11 acres, six miles of tables and many thousands of participants, I think the safety record is pretty impressive, considering the numbers of guns and people present.

bouis
October 22, 2006, 09:32 PM
I'm sure that a lot more people are hurt or killed driving to and from gun shows than are by ADs or NDs. But that doesn't make the news...

Wesker
October 22, 2006, 09:45 PM
On to a constructive comment!

Accidents happen at all conventions. Air shows, bike shows, boat shows, etc.. Turn on Max Ex and see a mid air collision, or speed boats disintigrating on the water. See funny cars and drag racers explode in the pit and maim bystanders, or watch the driver hurtle over the handle bars on his motocross bike and break every bone in his body only to get back on the saddle after rehab. The point is, accidents happen whether people are strict rule lawyers or not. If there was a big computer that could regulate safety, great. But there isn't, and human error will always play a big role in these sorts of things and accidents will happen.

God forbid though, that TV cameras found there way into a gun show like the one in Tulsa. Witness this accident and the media will use it to put a spin on GUN CONTROL! Yet no one tries to regulate the speed of vehicles or the stunts pilots can do. When was the last time you read a paper about a story where a riced out Honda saved the life of a woman being raped, or a store clerk used his rocket boat to flee to safety.

The thing is, gun shows don't get the media attention that the other conventions get, mainly because a vast majority of Americans simply don't care about guns unless it means banning them. They get their kicks from defying gravity or cheating death. I say let them race their boats and cars and fly their jets under bridges. We'll happily browse the wares of our hobbies and passions just like the rest of 'em.

moewadle
October 22, 2006, 09:51 PM
Has anyone heard of Murphy's Law???? If a mistake can be made someone will make it. Or a variant...If a part can be installed incorrectly someone will do so. Rephrase it anyway you want...Like....If multiple gun people handle enough guns sooner or later there will be a forgotten cartridge left in a chamber that will be negligently discharged. So, I say, yes maybe an anti did this but more than likely someone just forgot.

Wesker
October 22, 2006, 10:03 PM
Suffice it to say, what can go wrong will go wrong.

Kim
October 22, 2006, 10:15 PM
I have been wanting to go to the Tulsa gun show for years. I'm going to take off a whole week from work this April and go on my way turkey hunting in MO. I can't wait. Got to break in my new boots before going though... :D

sm
October 22, 2006, 10:22 PM
Kim,

You cannot run in hip boots, don't you know? :p

I am easy to spot, I am the 6' , 170# guy with long hair and mustache, using the gals in tight jeans and cowboy hats as reference points, looking for K frames, 1911s , shotguns (28ga of course) , with this shorter guy running like crazy trying to keep up.

Shorter fella? That'll be Larry Ashcraft, just follow him and I'll be up ahead somewhere's...

Wear Tennis Shoes...:D

spooney
October 22, 2006, 11:20 PM
Me and two of my friends from college finally went to this show this weekend. It was all that I had hoped for, we are all pretty big gun nuts and we all saw guns that we had never seen before at this show. I actually handled at Enfield Mk4T. Thats not something you see everyday. I felt pretty bad when I heard about the ND, but I couldn't get a real clear idea of what actually happened until I came on here this morning and read about it.

XavierBreath
October 22, 2006, 11:38 PM
Joe Wanenmacher, the gun show's manager, said the vendor was examining a double-barreled .410-gauge shotgun that he thought was loaded with a snap cap. A snap cap is a nonlive round that allows the handler to dry-fire the weapon without damaging the firing pin or the firing pin holes. However, when the vendor pulled the trigger, the shotgun fired a blast through his display case, Wanenmacher said. The pellets ricocheted off the floor and struck two men standing nearby, he said. Cpl. Jerry Holloway of the Tulsa County Sheriff's Department said investigators recovered one spent shell and a live shell in the gun's other barrel. That doesn't sound like an anti-gunner sneaking in a shotgun shell to me. It sounds to me like someone who cannot tell a snap cap from a live round. Either that, or he never checked the chamber prior to pulling the trigger. I suspect the latter is the case. He just did not want to admit it.

There is no acceptable excuse for not checking the chamber prior to dry firing a gun at an event like this, or at any time, really. No excuse is acceptable. Not even anti-gunners smuggling in live rounds.

White_Wolf
October 22, 2006, 11:48 PM
I’ve never heard of Anti’s slipping bullets into guns to promote an unwanted discharge; thus proving guns, even in the hands of experts, are deadly things with minds of their own. But at the same time this sort of behavior really wouldn’t surprise me.

It was just a few weeks ago I was reading an article called “hush crimes” or “hoax crimes” or something like that. This anti racist organization was writing racial epithets on one dollar bills, and then signing the name of some skinhead group, and mailing them to people in an attempt to get the skins arrested on ethnic intimidation and the felony of the defacing of US money or something.

We have anti abortionists trying to kill abortion doctors and calling in bomb threats to the abortion clinic. And of course we know what the animal rights activists are like. So it really wouldn’t surprise me if gun control fanatics were doing this sort of sick thing.

But aside from that, I’m sure most accidental discharges that occur at a shooting range or gun show is the result of basic human negligence.

I think guns are like cars: you have to be careful and act responsible or someone’s going to get hurt. Yet at the same time, there are always going to be car accidents no matter how careful you are. That’s just a fact of life.

Also, this incident has gone to show a newbie like me why the four rules of gun safety are so important.

kungfuhippie
October 22, 2006, 11:59 PM
I knew a few people in highschool and college that though it "moral" to unscrew valve stems on a SUV because to them hurting a person that hurt the enviorment was a good thing. I thank God I grew up and realized their mentality was not just wrong but EVIL. Or pulling survey stakes to stop construction of new homes (I work for an engineer and survey on occasion, in one night two guys could set a survey crew and project back two weeks) Loading a gun at the show would bring a smile to their face. They'd be overjoyed to thing at "worst" some "evil gun nut" would go to jail at "best" some people get hurt or die. There are nutters on each side of the fence, that's why SUV dealers get bombed as do abortion clinics.

Every California Gun show I've been two the dealers are real cautious. At the Glendale Gunshow that faced a city ban (luck it failed) the vendors were very careful I guess to avoid any "accidents" (beyond loaded guns) that could further the anti's arguements to ban the show.

sm
October 23, 2006, 12:18 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2792400&postcount=21

XavierBreath,

I agree, no excuse. We are on the same page. :)

I/we cannot be reminded enough, and we cannot forget.

For the benefit of the Antis reading this thread...Hi, Welcome to THR!

Please note : Joe Wanenmacher, the gun show's manager, has very very strict policies in place. First off the exhibitors / vendors enter the building in private, for security reasons, before any of the public is allowed in. During this time, there is a protocol on making sure all guns are unloaded, and zip tied.
All before the public ever enters this show. Other shows around the country do the same thing.

This vendor broke the rules, did not follow protocol.

Four Rules of Safety are another set of rules he did not follow.

Now antis, I hate to break it to you, but you folks do not have anywhere near the security and protocols at your meeting, as WE firearm folks do at gun shows.

I have attended your meetings. I was carrying concealed as this meeting place was not a NO CCW zone by our state law, and you did not have proper signage.

Not very smart talking about some of the stuff you do tsk, tsk, tsk. Now I was happy to hear the idea of sneaking in ammo, was shot down, I still would not put it past you.
I did inform my fellow Firearm Folks attending a certain show you would be out taking plate numbers, you do not need to do that, that is what BATFE does, or didn't you know at that show - I no longer attend more local.

Antis, there is an adage "Keep your friends close, your enemies closer".

Yeah, WE firearm folks know, we are right next to you, careful, don't jump, might spill your drink.

;)

BATFE, sure we know you are reading this too. BTW, sure hope ya'll got some new better cover garments and new Ploys to trip up folks at Tulsa, ones you been using, well, just no fun spotting ya'll anymore.
We like a challenge ya know?

;)

See ya in April.

:D

Ryder
October 23, 2006, 04:43 AM
Shooting at the floor in a crowd sounds like criminal negligence to me.

I'll gladly accept a gun which has not been cleared by the seller. If he is stupid enough to hand it to me without checking it then I am without a doubt safer clearing it myself. He's already proven his incompetance.

If there is such a thing as a good gun law then loading a display gun with a cartidge should be it. Is it even illegal though? I've never heard of such a law.

jondar
October 23, 2006, 08:09 AM
At a gun show in a small town close to where I live, I arrived just after an accidental discharge had ocurred. A man had picked up a Model 94 Winchester in .30-30 caliber, levered the hammer back pointed it at the floor which being in a school gym was wood over concrete, and pulled the trigger. The bullet ricocheted up to the ceiling bounced off, came back down on the sellers table. I talked with the seller and he said that sometimes the last round in this type of rifle will fail to eject and next time the action is cycled will load the barrell. I don't know if this is true or not, I'm just relating what he told me.

TexasRifleman
October 23, 2006, 08:59 AM
If there is such a thing as a good gun law then loading a display gun with a cartidge should be it. Is it even illegal though? I've never heard of such a law.

Alas there is no law against stupidity. If there were the world might be a much better place :evil:

Double Naught Spy
October 23, 2006, 09:25 AM
Alas there is no law against stupidity. If there were the world might be a much better place

I believe it can be argued that stupidity is protected under 9A, and 9A is protected under 2A. Sorry.

Autolycus
October 23, 2006, 09:25 AM
Before we jump down someones throat for the use of hich, go back and read your posts regarding the word gangsta. There are stereotypes all over and it works both ways.

Either way someone screwed up at the gun show. It happens.

PinnedAndRecessed
October 23, 2006, 09:31 AM
Shooting at the floor in a crowd sounds like criminal negligence to me.


From here (regarding the dealer):

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/1006/370719.html

A complaint of misdemeanor reckless handling of a firearm has been forwarded to the Tulsa County District Attorney's Office.

johnbarth
October 23, 2006, 01:50 PM
This is not a rumor and the dealer that fired the shot was totally responsible. As for the "hick gun show" comment, the Wanamaker show is as good as they come. Just like the "guns don't kill people" concept, nobody can watch every dealer all of the time at a show like this. My hat is off to the Wanamaker folks for running a truly professional event.

Leanwolf
October 23, 2006, 04:14 PM
P95LAX - " I cannot see any guy running a table being this lax - so it does leave us wondering?!"


It doesn't leave me wondering at all.

Here in Boise, I've had tables at the various Boise gun shows quite a few times. I've seen dealers/table renters, twice, have CDs. (Careless Discharges.)

Both times were with .45 automatics, one a Colt's and the other a Star.

Both times were BEFORE the doors opened as these guys were setting up their tables, therefore no "anti-gunner" slipping a round in a pistol unobserved. Fortunately, no one was injured. The last one happened just two tables down the aisle from my table, and a bullet fragment or piece of concrete from the floor hit one of my friends in the back of the leg, at his table next to me although it did not penetrate his jeans. Gave him a sting and slight bruise. Scared the Hell outta me ... and quite a few surrounding "dealers" and table renters.

Of course, the two "dealers" were required to pack up and leave immediately. One of them I knew, the other I did not.

So, just because someone is a "dealer" renting a table at a gunshow, does NOT mean that he/she has been as careful as he/she should.

FWIW.

L.W.

lbmii
October 24, 2006, 01:53 AM
I was there early on Saturday and I saw a lot of idiots in the parking lot walking towards the show with long guns in their hands and their fingers fully into the trigger guards with their fingers on the triggers.

Inside the show there was a guy in an electric wheelchair that was rolling around with a leveraction and he had his finger on the trigger.

The 3rd, 4th, or 5th hand story I heard was that the 410 shotgun belonged to a show atendee and not a dealer. The atendee while attempting to sell his shotgun to a dealer loaded the shotgun with what he thought and what he told the dealer were snap caps and handed it to the dealer. Of course the dealer is still an idiot on this whole deal.

Double Naught Spy
October 24, 2006, 08:41 AM
I cannot see any guy running a table being this lax - so it does leave us wondering?!

What would you be wondering. This isn't as unfrequent as you might think. I have been to less than 50 gun shows and have shown up to two where it happened previously in the day and been present at a third when it did happen. All three events were by VENDORS.

Yes, people do get that lax, even vendors. It should not happen, but it does.

Eleven Mike
October 24, 2006, 09:14 AM
From article linked on first page:
In 1994, a similar accident happened at the Tulsa Gun and Knife Show when a vendor accidentally fired a .45-caliber pistol. Investigators said the bullet ricocheted off the floor and struck two men in the feet.

In 2000, a 10 mm pistol discharged as a man was unholstering it at Wanenmacher's Tulsa Arms Show. The bullet struck the person next to him in the leg.
An ND with injuries every six years. Is that acceptable? How often is the show held?

No opinion offered, just a sincere question.

PinnedAndRecessed
October 24, 2006, 09:52 AM
How often is the show held?


Twice annually.

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