Houston's Murder Rate Highest in Decade


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The_Shootist
October 21, 2006, 09:37 PM
Time to renew my CHL - thanks to misc N'awlins scum.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4277375.html

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dasmi
October 21, 2006, 09:42 PM
You beat me too it. Where'd they put all those poor Katrina victims?
Oh yeah! Houston! Enjoy, Texans.

PinnedAndRecessed
October 21, 2006, 09:50 PM
And you'll never, never get them out of Texas.

Until you cut them off the public dole and pay their way back to the sewer.

U.S.SFC_RET
October 21, 2006, 10:12 PM
Just remember that's it's very politically incorrect to state that most killings and violent armed robbery are committed by african americans. Politicians won't speak about it for fear of getting elected out of office. Every form of government in this country is an emperor who is wearing no clothes when it comes to inner city crime/ black on black crime. If you rule out this type of crime in reporting stats I am willing to bet you a dime to a dollar America would be one of the safest places anywhere.

Mac Attack
October 21, 2006, 10:14 PM
I tent to agree.

Minator
October 21, 2006, 10:15 PM
And you'll never, never get them out of Texas.

Their leaving texas slowly but surely..........in body bags and prison buses.

KenRocks
October 21, 2006, 10:18 PM
I'm a Houstonian, born and raised, and spent a week at the Astrodome when everything first went down and the evacuees first started flowing in.

That was some bull****.

I can say with authority that I have never met a group more characterized by their ungratefulness, self-righteous sense of entitlement, and all around criminal behavior. I'm finishing up my last year of college at UT-Austin, but every time I make it back around home I can notice the changes. Most of the evacuees moved into my area, and things have gone down-hill fast. LEO friends of mine cant help but agree...things have gone from bad to worse, and it's unlikely to ever let up.

I've worked managing a fireworks stand in one such area for the last seven years or so...there are safer jobs during the best of seasons, but I am not looking forward to New Years in the least. CHL should be in the mail in a week or two...

ribbonstone
October 21, 2006, 10:51 PM
You got the "best of the best"...prefer the term "Katrinoids".

ribbonstone
October 22, 2006, 12:34 AM
Wasn't joking...the thousands of "guest workers" are hard workers and generally trouble free...glad to have more, and hope many will stay. Figure N.O. is getting non-citizens who are productive. Houston got citizens that were non-productive; a no-brainer trade as far as N.O. is concerned.


Yep...no doubt about it, Texas got the dirty end of the Katrina stick.

22-rimfire
October 22, 2006, 12:53 AM
KenRock said...I can say with authority that I have never met a group more characterized by their ungratefulness, self-righteous sense of entitlement, and all around criminal behavior.

That is my impression as well. It is a sad commentary on a certain segment of our society.

The article was fairly interesting. I lived there in the late 70's when the murder rate was pretty darn high. The population has continued to shyrocket since then. I got out. The only good thing that happend to me there were a couple of girls I knew well and buying my first Colt Diamondback.

Nio
October 22, 2006, 01:28 AM
I can say with authority that I have never met a group more characterized by their ungratefulness, self-righteous sense of entitlement, and all around criminal behavior.

I live in Jefferson Parish, which is right outside New Orleans. When we evacuated for Katrina, we evacuated to Houston, and everyone in Texas was friendly and helpful. As soon as we could, we came home, put the house back together, and we're working hard to make things happen here.

Unfortunately, ya'll got stuck with the lower class citizens who are all happy to suck at the public teat and not work hard. What you're dealing with isn't a New Orleans thing. It's a laziness thing. I just don't want ya'll to think that those people are in any way representitive of New Orleanians.

Nio

KenRocks
October 22, 2006, 01:47 AM
Never thought they were indicative of the city as a whole...every city has people like that, and it was just our misfortune to happen across all of them at once. :)

I have met and like a great deal of the evacuees...but those tend to be the ones that actually care about their future and are willing to sweat to build it. Really all I'd like is for people to acknowledge that such help never was, and never will be, a requirement. We helped because we wanted to and others needed it...but no one was ever entitled. I think we're still distributing free rent vouchers...

Defensor
October 22, 2006, 01:50 AM
You didn't say that out loud! How politically incorrect of you!

Now say your pentance, bury your head in the sand, say 10 times its not their fault, and request grief councelors for them all. then you can be forgiven (and be called a democrat). LOL

beerslurpy
October 22, 2006, 02:02 AM
I have read in various places (and the FBI stats seem to back this up) that if you snip out the various urban ghettos, the murder rate in the US is lower than continental eurpean levels. Almost all the murders and serious violence that happens in this country is confined to a relatively small set of geographical areas.

bouis
October 22, 2006, 02:15 AM
I have read in various places (and the FBI stats seem to back this up) that if you snip out the various urban ghettos, the murder rate in the US is lower than continental eurpean levels. Almost all the murders and serious violence that happens in this country is confined to a relatively small set of geographical areas.

Yep. And our property crime rates are already much lower than theirs as well.

orangelo
October 22, 2006, 03:39 AM
A co-worker here moved into some apartments on the west side of Houston before Katrina. It was a nice place to live and the complex used to send out a monthly crime neighborhood watch report. Stuff like bicycle was stolen, car vandalised etc... small peanuts.

After the shoot-out between Katricians in the parking lot they quit sending their tenants reports.

bouis
October 22, 2006, 04:31 AM
New Orleans refugees orchestrated an unsuccessful "drive-by" shooting in my little town a couple months ago. Good thing they're not known for their aim...

22-rimfire
October 22, 2006, 12:12 PM
With regards to a certain segment of the population, sometimes a "THANK YOU" might be nice. I have met Katrina refugees in my area; they seemed like nice people and I was more than willing to help. Like the Iraq war, helping gets old after a while if people don't help themselves.

The FBI crime statistics are very telling. But, some of the more interesting details are not included such as race, relative economic level of perp, most problematic areas within urban areas, suburban crime, and rural crime. Some of this information might be very useful for folks thinking about moving or retiring at a different location.

I would be most interested in suburban crimes outside the city limits, rural areas, etc. I don't want some race biased report, but the information would be interesting. I just want to know the facts. Factual information on type of firearm used would be useful information as well. I'd like to know things like 22, 9mm, auto, revolver, rifle, etc. With facts you can make up your own mind. But when the pro-gunners and anti-gunners duke it out, you don't know what facts are true or not. The information is all so "grey".

U.S.SFC_RET
October 22, 2006, 12:43 PM
Just so you can't blame it on "poverty stricken" inner city, just think about this. There are many areas in this country that are poverty stricken. The geological area of appalachia is one, the crime rate doesn't compare. Inner city crime is a culture in itself plain and simple. Every major city taken over by african americans has been ran into shambles. What gets me is that the democratic ticket caters to and runs on the emotions of the inner city but does hardly anything to help these people.

crazed_ss
October 22, 2006, 01:07 PM
Every major city taken over by african americans has been ran into shambles

OK, I know this might be an unpopular viewpoint here, but dont you think America's racist past has something to do with how things are for many poor blacks? And before anyone starts saying I'm making excuses bla bla bla, noticed I said "SOMETHING TO DO" .. Crime in the inner cities is not simply a function of skin color.. there are a couple other factors involved.

Bob41081
October 22, 2006, 01:17 PM
Can someone tell me what the rate is? A rate is xx/xxxxx. All they ever tell you is an actual number not a true rate. A matter of semantics yes but it still has always bugged me.

Bob

22-rimfire
October 22, 2006, 01:30 PM
If someone wants to maximize the impact of crime statistics, they usually use occurrences. Rates tend to minimize the public's impression of crime in their cities or locales. I prefer to know both myself. Rates are usually given in xx per 1,000 or xx/100,000. Again, the effect on the audience is different. Rates are given for last years crime stats published by the FBI.

Also, when some quote gun related deaths, they include the justifiable with the criminal numbers. They want the numbers as high as possible. This is not the case with the Houston numbers.

The anti gun folks always quote numbers of deaths with guns. They don't want you to know the rate relative to population or the rate relative to gun owners. It's for the children. That is why the discussions on gun crime are so "grey".

Ieyasu
October 22, 2006, 01:51 PM
National murder rates by race for y2k:
http://guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvmurd.html#table1

Houston's murder rate (too lazy to look-up), allowing for a 25% increase would be somewhere around 16 or 17 per 100,000.

beerslurpy
October 22, 2006, 02:39 PM
It's a cultural problem, not a biological one. And it's a culture that still exists among white people, but it is treated in a far more unforgiving manner. If white people were dealing crack and shooting each other in drive bys, it would be cracked down on very harshly. But this crackdown wouldnt be condemned as "police racism."

Unfortunately, people like Jesse Jackson perpetuate this culture among blacks by blaming the negative outcomes of the culture on non-existant problems like white racism. As long as you can blame someone else isntead of yourself as the cause of your woes, you will never have to change. As long as police officers are the enemy rather than crack dealers being the enemy, you will continue to have these problems.

Yeah, there was heavy racism in the past and there still is some hiding on the fringes of society, but for the most part, everyone can get ahead regardless of race in this country. I have always said that if you want to see who is holding you back in life and ****ing up your chance at the american dream, look in a mirror.

Malone LaVeigh
October 22, 2006, 03:17 PM
The geological area of appalachia is one, the crime rate doesn't compare. Inner city crime is a culture in itself plain and simple. Every major city taken over by african americans has been ran into shambles.

I'm dying to see the statistics you based that statement on. You didn't just say that because you "feel" it's true, did you? In most places I've lived, rural crime rates seem to be quite high, but I won't make a statement about which is higher, because I don't have the statistics. I'm talking about per capita rates, of course there will be more crime where there's more people.

I won't justify the rest of that racist statement with a response.

beerslurpy
October 22, 2006, 03:41 PM
Rural areas tend to have lower murder rates because barfights and wife beating generally dont result in fatalities. There is drug manufacturing and dealing, but it either takes place with the tacit consent of the local constabulary or it gets stomped on hard.

In the ghetto, I dont think that is the case so much. The police tend to take a more hands-off approach because it is their ass on the line if they try to do the right thing and a black kid ends up getting shot by a white officer. Plus, if the rest of the community doesnt take a stand or, even worse, actively supports the activities of the criminals, what are the cops supposed to do?

In the end, the cops are only a fraction of a percent of the population- if the community isnt opposed to the criminal behavior, how are the cops going to make a dent? It doesnt even take an army of people- that one guy in CA who took a stand against the local dealers had a great effect on his neighborhood once the hoods knew they would get shot for their behavior.

yongxingfreesty
October 22, 2006, 03:48 PM
they said they will turn to violence if they dont get what they need. that is exactly what they said on the news.

beerslurpy
October 22, 2006, 03:50 PM
In that case, I'm glad theyre doing it in texas. They have guns, shovels and miles of open desert.

Malone LaVeigh
October 22, 2006, 04:06 PM
And it's a culture that still exists among white people, but it is treated in a far more unforgiving manner.

There is drug manufacturing and dealing, but it either takes place with the tacit consent of the local constabulary or it gets stomped on hard.

Look up any small-town newspaper and do a search on "meth." There's a major epidemic of related crime, including murder, going on that rivals anything in big cities. It seems like every day we have a story about 17-year-old punks, white as often as black or hispanic, killing some 80-year-old woman for money for meth. It just doesn't get the national press because there isn't the volume you have in highly populated areas. Again, I don't have the stats, but from where I'm sitting it looks as bad as anything in Houston or NO.

Cosmoline
October 22, 2006, 04:21 PM
Malone has it. I've never had any trouble with blacks, but the tweakers and cooks scare the hell out of me. My roommate took to carrying a fully loaded SAR-1 openly when we lived in the Butte to ward them off. They're all white, and they're all TOTALLY F'ING CRAZY. Worse than crack heads. Plus, some of them can actually shoot straight. There may be about six blacks living in the Mat-Su grand total, so you Stormfronters can't blame them. There's scum in every ethnic group. Indeed the biggest gang problem we have in Anchorage now comes from Samoans of all people. Specifically, the youngsters who've been kicked out of one town after another before ending up here.

The only real generalization you can make is that YOUNG MALES are the most dangerous creatures on the planet, and the killers among them come in all colors. If I see a pack of them, I don't care if they're black, white or Yupik. I have my piece ready to go. You want to see a place with ZERO crime? I'll take you to a gated community that bans any youngsters from living there. No theft, no murder, no rape. Just old people arguing over lawns.

KenRocks
October 22, 2006, 04:50 PM
lol...+1 for the most uninformed informed opinion I have encountered on the boards thusfar, cosmo...

Art Eatman
October 22, 2006, 06:40 PM
beerslurpy's "It's a cultural problem, not a biological one." is correct. That view is a very elementary beginning to any understanding of our social problems.

From U.S. Census data, some 2/3 of all blacks are middle-class as to income. SFAIK, the same holds for citizen-Latins. When you look back on the relatively lower crime rates of the 1930s and the 25% unemployment, it's pretty obvious that poverty as such is merely a contributory facet.

One little piece of the overall situation is to consider some of the welfare-ghettos as pockets of sub-cultures where the concept of entitlement has become ingrained. Add to this the overall US cultural idea of instant gratification which is common through all ethnic and economic groups and you have problems.

Art

Cosmoline
October 22, 2006, 07:36 PM
for the most uninformed informed opinion I have encountered on the boards thusfar, cosmo

Yeah, kinda annoying to be condemned out of hand because of your roots--isn't it?

Malone LaVeigh
October 22, 2006, 07:40 PM
One little piece of the overall situation is to consider some of the welfare-ghettos as pockets of sub-cultures where the concept of entitlement has become ingrained.

"Entitlement" is the great whipping-boy of the conservative pundits, but if you ask me, I'd say it's more like the concept of CRIME has become ingrained.

Add to this the overall US cultural idea of instant gratification which is common through all ethnic and economic groups and you have problems.

Agree 100% with this.

sm
October 22, 2006, 08:09 PM
Art,

Well said.

I have folks related to my by blood near Houston. One, just retired from LEO. We have communicated in awhile, but he has said what Art shared , over the years.

I was in Houston recently, and it has changed, been changing. I was down that way before Katrina, during Katrina, and since. Yeah, some ingraining and changes going on for sure. Last time real evident.

This "kinfolk" and I have not seen each other in 20+ years, and he was busy with his boy getting back from Sandbox, and the both of them flying out to see the one that serving on a Sub, somewheres...

I was not their to see another kinfolk, she is still stuck in the 60's and in denial of changes. Her LEO son does best can.

I went to check on another old set of Mentors. They moved out to more peaceful spot, made money on Houston Property , just now time to enjoy small town and memories. They can still shoot, still do, just nice to go plinking, piddle and spoil grandcritters now. Nice to window shop, with the grandcritters and not be so concerned as they were.

They sure happy they bought this peaceful spot back when, some distance from Houston, in the middle of nowhere...been a get-a-way for years now, just now permanent "home".

Washburn Tunnel, is no place to be gawking, goofing off and not paying attention, don't matter which end, or in it, just don't.

U.S.SFC_RET
October 22, 2006, 09:24 PM
The murder rate has been as high as 46 per 100,000 if not more, people in Baltimore , Maryland. The leadership accuse each other of artificially lowering the murder rates. When the shootings happen no one hardly notices any longer. Violent crime rates are just as bad in Washington DC if not worse. Both cities have stringent gun laws in place and DC has one of the worst gun laws in the country . Washington DC as we well know busted Marion Barry the DC mayor in a drug sting with a prostitute who only got reelected again. This same Mayor in the first week of January 2006 I believe got a pistol stuck in his face and got robbed at gunpoint by some teenagers of "Poverty". Housing is dirt cheap in the inner city if you want to buy up property and live there.

aspen1964
October 22, 2006, 09:30 PM
If you think God is going to discard your sins because you were not rich, you are listening to the wrong preacher...

KenRocks
October 22, 2006, 09:54 PM
Quote:
for the most uninformed informed opinion I have encountered on the boards thusfar, cosmo

Yeah, kinda annoying to be condemned out of hand because of your roots--isn't it?

-----

It was actually more of the "I never lived in Houston, but some other dude in LA told me it was a ****hole once...so man, that place must suck alot rendering moot the massive increase in crime over the last year or so"

But yeah...its a great shame I never blamed it on the skin color of this particular bunch of criminals. Live and learn.

beerslurpy
October 22, 2006, 10:24 PM
The problem is that inner city property ISNT cheap. Even if you could fortify it and make the crime outside a non-issue, the property taxes and income taxes would kill you. The tax base is often collapsed and the city government is usually in trouble- they will just see you as another fresh host to attach to. And you better not need a job. Guess who else left the city when things were falling apart? Thats right, the employers.

In the end, the only people that are left are the people and businesses that lack the motivation or ability to leave. How are you going to rebuild the local economy on a foundation like that?

I think there is a lot of truth in that video of the mice when someone moves their cheese- some of the mice stay behind and whine that their cheese is gone, while the smart ones move on to find new cheese. Something the video never mentions is that large numbers of the whiny, lazy mice have an additional harmful effect that should be avoided as surely as the lack of cheese.

Let's illustrate the analogy-
Mice : Moving cheese
Companies : Products (gotta find new products or they will become commoditized. Then profits will fall off and your competitors will catch up)
Employees :Companies (When things go south in terms of compensation or work environment, guess which employees are left behind? And guess what will happen to the bottom line when all the good employees have left? And do you think that compensation and work environment will get better or worse when that effect manifests itself?)
Residents : Neighborhoods and Cities (everyone (with their eyes open) knows when their neighborhood is about to take a nose dive or when a new neighborhood is likely to go way up in value. The question is who is willing and able to walk away from a bad neighborhood when they cant prevent the decline? And who isnt? That's basically the answer to why economically depressed areas are full of bad people and vice versa. The two effects feed each other)

If anyone can find a simpler way of expressing this relationship, that would be sweet.

ribbonstone
October 22, 2006, 10:30 PM
There is a sub group that can be statisticaly linked to a higher likelyhood of being murdered...and of murdering. Urban black, age 18-25, male. Certainly aren't the only people being killed or doing the killing, but on a basic of population they do stand out.

The "why" of it is proably a multi-level problem with no simple easy correction...more social than biologic or economic.

Being able to identify this section of population, then being asked to ignore the statitical relevance just becasue one factor is race (and all the political baggage tht carries with it) is counter productive to solving the problem.

Yelling "race discrimination" does in fact help perpetuate the problem...the powers that be tend to shy away from group-specific efforts/funds that might reduce the problem.

eukanuba
October 23, 2006, 09:39 AM
The only real generalization you can make is that YOUNG MALES are the most dangerous creatures on the planet, and the killers among them come in all colors. If I see a pack of them, I don't care if they're black, white or Yupik. I have my piece ready to go. You want to see a place with ZERO crime? I'll take you to a gated community that bans any youngsters from living there. No theft, no murder, no rape. Just old people arguing over lawns.

I agree. Young males pretty much raising themselves and doing a poor job of it are ticking time bombs.
Retirees are some of the friendliest people there are. I talked to one and we just went on about his landscaping, talked about the holly bushes in front of his house and how to be careful when the grandkids come over and not eat the berries because they are poisonous, he invited me in and showed off the sunroom addition that he built himself. I admired his work. Had a nice chat.:D

LAK
October 24, 2006, 06:20 AM
I'd agree it's a culture problem. The racial breakdown is largely a reflection of the pervasiveness of the culture problem within each racial category. The culture problem spans all races, and is going to be our ultimate undoing.

--------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

strambo
October 24, 2006, 06:52 AM
If a majority of violent crime in an area is committed by folks of a certain color...that would be a fact, not racism. Attaching color as the reason or cause for this would be a racist opinion.

We can't even identify where the problems are without being labeled racist...those labels shut down conversation, they do not foster open communication and problem solving. We need to solve our inner city crime problems. Yes, the police are hesitant to crack down where the crime is, because that is also where the minorities are and they get tremendous heat from the community whenever they have to shoot a crack dealer.

In Portland, there was a justifyable shooting, the community was up in arms over the "racist" shooting, making "Murderer" posters with the cops face on it. About a month later there was a spate of shootings in that area and the news had some local people complaining the police weren't doing enough to stop the crime there!:scrutiny: :D I involuntarily started laughing, absolutely absurd. If the people in the community would stop being "racist" and work with and support the police efforts to get rid of the criminals, no matter what their skin color may be, then progress could be made. Police can't choose the skin color of the people that decide of their own free will to commit crimes.

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