PA Bill to expedite carry permits for victims of domestic violence


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BullfrogKen
October 22, 2006, 06:06 PM
After reading this, I am :confused:

It doesn't take very long to get a carry permit in PA as it stands. I guess the ability to get it immediately is nice, but that assumes one already has access to a handgun anyway, doesn't it?


I would expect social workers to oppose anything gun related anyway.


Perhaps we should give the victim pepper spray and a cell phone.

Story (http://www.ydr.com/newsfull/ci_4521679)
Bill seeks to expedite violence victims' guns
But some local experts fear it would ignite already-volatile situations.

By CARYL CLARKE
Daily Record/Sunday News


Oct 20, 2006 A statehouse bill to speed up the process for issuing the victims of domestic violence a license to carry a concealed gun worries Twilah Shipley, the director of ACCESS-York.
"Domestic violence situations can be really dangerous and violent and can turn lethal and sometimes fatal," Shipley said. "The guns could possibly be used against the person trying to protect herself or himself and may actually increase the chance of a homicide."

She said she did not think House Bill 2946 is a good idea.

According to the bill, a person seeking a 90-day emergency license to carry a concealed gun would have to show evidence of imminent danger such as a protection-from-abuse order. The sheriff would immediately ask state police for a background check, which takes 14 days.

If the sheriff determines the person has met all the criteria, including being of sound mind, he would immediately issue a temporary 90-day license to carry a concealed firearm.

The process for a comprehensive background check now takes three weeks, said Deputy Sheriff Brian Copenheaver

State Rep. Daryl Metcalfe, R-Butler County, sponsored the bill and said 21 days is fast work on the part of the York County Sheriff's office. Other counties work more slowly. He said he wanted to propose a maximum 45-day wait.

The bill surfaced a couple weeks ago when the house as a whole was discussing how to reduce crime, Metcalfe said.

"I am not in favor of it," said Anne Acker, director of Safe Home in Hanover.

"Domestic violence is a very volatile situation. We should focus more on removing guns from the perpetrator than on granting weapons to the victim."

Pennsylvania State Police Lt. Brad Lawver of legislative affairs saw a delicate balance between the safety of the applicant who believes she is in imminent danger and the safety of the general public, law enforcement and the victim.

Metcalfe said the bill would empower somebody who is fully eligible to carry a gun to protect herself. The victims aren't limited to abusive domestic relationships; the bill could apply to anybody facing imminent danger, such as a witness testifying against a gangster.

"We have seen where police could not act," Metcalfe said. "People who have had the ability to use a firearm protected themselves, a child or a neighbor and stopped the perpetrator."

It doesn't take a lot of training to use a firearm, Metcalfe said. He learned through attending NRA classes at age 14.

"Hundreds of thousands of people use guns to defend themselves," he said. "A lot of people may still not choose the right they have. Those who are confident they could defend themselves and their loved ones could use the right."

A coalition that supports the bill, Metcalfe said, includes the Second Amendment Sisters and the National Rifle Association.

The government should not erect a wall to stop women trying to protect themselves. It's important to empower every individual, he said.

State Rep. Keith Gillespie, R-Hellam Township, one of the bill's 10 co-sponsors, said the bill might be the only chance for those in imminent danger to protect themselves.

"It is not to escalate the situation," Gillespie said. "I would not want to throw gas on a fire in a volatile situation. For some, this could be the only chance they have."

He expected to meet with representatives from ACCESS-York to discuss the bill.

The bottom line is the bill won't be passed before the General Assembly closes at the end of the year. Gillespie said he did not see the bill making its way out of the Judicial Committee to the floor for a House vote, let alone navigating its way in the state Senate. It would likely await reintroduction next year.

Reach Caryl Clarke at 771-2032 or caryl@ydr.com.

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mete
October 22, 2006, 07:11 PM
I would not like this unless there was some psychiatric examination as some of the women are as violent as the men they are running from and they also may be too emotional to act responsibly. In addition there should be training [for every one who has a gun for defense].

Steve in PA
October 22, 2006, 07:27 PM
Why the need for a special bill?

Although some counties will push the 45 day limit on processing an application, in reality it takes about 10 minutes.

Run the persons info, see if they have a rap sheet, call their references. If all is good, issue the permit.

Hypnogator
October 22, 2006, 07:27 PM
I would not like this unless there was some psychiatric examination as some of the women are as violent as the men they are running from and they also may be too emotional to act responsibly. In addition there should be training [for every one who has a gun for defense].

So, why not require a psychiatric exam and training certificate for everyone wishing to buy a gun. Of course, since any number of medical "experts" would be glad to testify that wanting a gun to defend yourself is prima facia evidence of a psychological disorder, it's not hard to see where this idea would go.....:cuss: :cuss: :fire: :banghead: :banghead:

Frankly, I think that at the time a judge issues a person a protective order, the sheriff's office should be required to issue him/her a .38 Special revolver, then take him/her to a range for marksmanship and legal training. Wonder how many husbands would wind up beating their wives to death then? :evil: :evil: :evil:

Mannlicher
October 22, 2006, 07:55 PM
In Florida, you don't need a permit to have a gun in your home, or in your car. Castle doctrine was extended to cover a citizen when out of their home. An abused spouse can have a firearm in her home, and car. No permit needed.
I also think anyone that is going to carry a gun with them or have one at home, and that contemplates having to use the gun to save their lives, owes it to themselves to get training.

P226
October 22, 2006, 10:01 PM
Well in 2001 i went the first week of june and received my permit on dec 14th.I just went on oct 13th and was told 4 to 6 weeks,but this Philadelphia.
The one in 2001 took 6 months and i know people who waited 8 months,my first permit was issued in 1991 so it was just a renewal but philly takes it as a new permit.

TexasRifleman
October 22, 2006, 10:05 PM
In addition there should be training [for every one who has a gun for defense].

Funny, I must have missed the part in the Constitution where it talks about training. I'll have to go check that again......


I would not like this unless there was some psychiatric examination

Wow, I missed that part too, I must have been sleepy when I read that darned old document.

I also think anyone that is going to carry a gun with them or have one at home, and that contemplates having to use the gun to save their lives, owes it to themselves to get training.

Sure, always a good idea. but making it mandatory as part of the qualification process stinks. Some states have a minimum practical test to pass, and that doesn't sit real well with me either but most are pretty easy to pass. You start thinking of reasons to exclude people from a God Given Right you're headed down a bad path.

loumarch
October 23, 2006, 02:16 AM
P226

PA law allows the county authority 45 days to process your app. If they can't decline you within 45 days the permit is issued immediately. There is no choice. Philadelphia makes you jump through one or two extra hoops but your local ward leader can help move things along.

Standing Wolf
October 23, 2006, 09:35 AM
The guns could possibly be used against the person trying to protect herself or himself and may actually increase the chance of a homicide.

Why don't leftist extremists ever trouble themselves to concoct new lies? Are they really that uncreative?

BullfrogKen
October 23, 2006, 05:12 PM
mete sad: I would not like this unless there was some psychiatric examination as some of the women are as violent as the men they are running from and they also may be too emotional to act responsibly. In addition there should be training [for every one who has a gun for defense].

PA has no existing training requirement to get a permit. Are you suggesting we change our process for victims of domestic violence?


And yes, Steve, I don't see the need, since in reality it doesn't take very long to run the background check - about the same amount of time it takes for our NICS check. But, PA has been reacting to Gov. Rendell's agenda to deal with "gun violence", so some of our more conservative fellows have proposed a more common sense response.

MartinBrody
October 23, 2006, 07:31 PM
I would not like this unless there was some psychiatric examination as some of the women are as violent as the men they are running from and they also may be too emotional to act responsibly. In addition there should be training [for every one who has a gun for defense]

As far as I know NY doesn't even have these requirements, better contact Hillary.

They should have the same requirements everyone else in their county has, these do vary by county. Chester County for example requires a Doctor's signature on the CCW application and Delaware County does not.

BobTheTomato
October 24, 2006, 08:49 AM
3 weeks in york county PA. Thats a long time when you think about it.

Deanimator
October 24, 2006, 09:54 AM
Quote:
The guns could possibly be used against the person trying to protect herself or himself and may actually increase the chance of a homicide.

Why don't leftist extremists ever trouble themselves to concoct new lies? Are they really that uncreative?

But don't you know? Women are frivolous creatures who'll just GIVE their guns to a violent attacker bent on killing them and their children!

Isn't it odd that the people pushing that "idea" generally call themselves "liberals" and "feminists"?

Vitamin G
October 24, 2006, 11:06 AM
If they live in Pittsburgh after this bill passes, they'll probably get to skip to the front of the line, and get the whole process taken care of in 10 minutes instead of 20 minutes.

Yup, took me 20 minutes, from recieving the form into my hand, to leaving out the door with my permit in hand.

The guy at the desk said it was a busy day.

NineseveN
October 24, 2006, 12:47 PM
Took me all of 12 minutes in the 'burgh...but some counties are a bit longer. As for whether or not we need this legislation? I dunno really, I'd rather it expedited the process for everyone instead of just one subset of folks in this state.

m0ntels
October 24, 2006, 12:51 PM
Maybe people should get their permit BEFORE they need it? You dont wait until the second before the crash to buckle your seatbelt do you?

Randy

Correia
October 24, 2006, 07:00 PM
Here in Utah we have a method in place to expediate getting permits for people who are considered in immediate danger. I don't know how often it gets used however.

You guys just wait until your permit gets popular with out of staters, (like we are for all the reciprocity). We used to get ours in a week. Now it is taking 2 months. Our processing people are swamped.

ewb45acp
October 24, 2006, 08:17 PM
In Lackawanna county it takes about 10 minutes, if someone is in front of you. Otherwise it takes about 5.

mete
October 24, 2006, 09:11 PM
Bullfrog, I have had NY and PA carry permits for many years .I have always been a strong proponent of training .The majority of CCW holders are totally clueless about using a gun and make many mistakes which can get them shot, killed , or in jail . It's a VERY serious business and I have always supported mandatory training. ...BTW I heard a 911 recording of a woman who lived with her young daughter and bought a gun to defend herself. One night a criminal broke in and she called 911. She obviously had no training and obviously was totally hysterical !!! She was in no condition to use the gun and in fact the operator told her not to.....Training , it might save your life.

Autolycus
October 24, 2006, 09:27 PM
Maybe they should rewrite the bill so that everyone gets their permit instead of a particular person (in this case the victim of a violent offender). What happens then is that now victims need it. Well what happens next is that Judges need it quicker than others. Well of course this extends to their clerks and the district attorneys. Oh now a pharmacist got robbed so now pharmacists need them.

Why not just expedite the whole damn process for everyone. Make it so that the permit is just like getting one in Pittsburgh. It seems that people have no trouble there. What about requiring local governments to drop some of the requriements like personal references. There seem to be different requirments for different counties.

Even better yet...

Vermont style carry laws. Imagine that.

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