NewBe Question regarding the 1858 Remington revolver.


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Blindshooter
October 22, 2006, 08:01 PM
Greetings all,

Been reading the archives for this group for a while, and decided to join in on the discussions.

I just purchased a Uberti/Remington 1858 New Model Army, and an r & d drop in cylinder for it from Midway a few days back.
Also bought some Black Hills Cowboy Action Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 250 Grain Lead Round Nose Flat point
Muzzle Velocity: 725 fps to shoot at the range using my new Remi.

My question is: for home defense, would it be safe to shoot Remington Express Ammunition 45 Colt (Long Colt) 250 Grain Lead Round Nose Muzzle velocity: 860 fps
Muzzle energy: 410 ft/lb
in my 1858 Remington?
I realize that over time shooting this kind of ammo could cause damage to the 1858, but in an emergency could that type of ammo cause a problem?

BlindShooter

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Oldnamvet
October 22, 2006, 10:07 PM
Normally one of the things you should do is practice with whatever loads you will use for SD. I don't think I would do that with those loads. Your cowboy action loads are not going to bounce off anyone.

sundance44s
October 23, 2006, 06:28 PM
I always load my ammo for my Conversion cylinder Remmie with black powder and plenty of it a 200 gr bullet and a case full of black powder around 37 grs for keeping as home defence loads .... these are stout loads even for black powder ..I`ve shot 50 or so of these at the range and really wouldn`t want to beat my remmies every shot with these , so i load lighter for target shooting .. but keep these around the house ... they put my 38 specials to shame .

mike101
October 23, 2006, 07:18 PM
Anything up to 1000 fps is acceptable for CAS. The Remington ammo should be just fine.:)

Plastic Cowboy
October 24, 2006, 02:49 AM
I agree....even your cowboy action loads are going to make any BG sorry he chose your house to break into. A solid center mass hit with your stout BP loaded .45LC and he will no longer be a burden on society if you know what I mean!!

Just keep a cyclinder of those packed full of power and for God's sake if you have kids lock it up!!

Blindshooter
October 25, 2006, 04:16 AM
Thanks guys for your help much appreciated.

BlindShooter

timothy75
October 25, 2006, 07:54 AM
Those remies are fine but why not use their all lead HP?

Old Fuff
October 25, 2006, 10:38 AM
Even though you have converted the revolver by changing the cylinder, keep in mind that it was proof-tested for Black Powder Only, and there is likely a warning to that effect stamped on the barrel. I doubt that CAS smokeless loads will get you into trouble, but if you want to shoot hotter stuff get a modern cartridge revolver that's made to use them.

Blindshooter
October 25, 2006, 12:52 PM
Hi Old Fuff,

I have a 1860 army Colt that I've had for about 5 years that I like to shoot using black powder. But alwise had to have a friend load it for me, because I'm blind, and have trouble measuring the proper amount of powder to use in the gun.

When I started reading about the R & D dropins on this group, I thought that would be a good solution for me. I could still have fun shooting the older black powder firearms and use the more modern cartridge loads.
So I ordered a 858 Remington, and the R & D cylinder from Midway.
Hopefully I can go to the range this weekend with a friend, and try this puppy out.

As far as home defense goes I was just curious as to how well this type of setup would do. I have a Mossberg 12 gage that I would use in an SD situation.

All the best,
BlindShooter

Old Fuff
October 25, 2006, 05:01 PM
I understand...

So long as you stick to moderate smokless or black powder loads you should be alright. The problem is that of late, some folks seem to believe that simply changing the cylinder makes what is supposed to be a black powder revolver into one that is fine with modern Plus-P or heavy hand loads.

Also consider asking you friend to help you make paper cartridges. The instructions are posted within our black powder section. Since the powder charge is pre-measured you wouldn't have to worry about it. It's one way to put your cap & ball revolver(s) back into action.

sundance44s
October 25, 2006, 06:04 PM
Now remember the conversion cylinders were invented in the 1800`s too ...its not a modern invention ... they were ment for black powder cartrage loads , and 800 or 900 fps isn`t anything to scuff at .. and these Itilian made guns are probally as stout as anything made in the 1800`s. per black powder.

Old Fuff
October 25, 2006, 06:16 PM
.. and these Itilian made guns are probally as stout as anything made in the 1800`s. per black powder.

They are indeed. But they aren't the equal of a Ruger Old Army or .45 Blackhawk. Each has its place, just don't get them mixed up when choosing loads to use.

sundance44s
October 26, 2006, 09:52 AM
I didn`t know the ROA was made in the 1800`s . ( just jerking a chain ) lol

Old Fuff
October 26, 2006, 11:08 AM
I don't have my reference book handy, but I believe that the Remington New Army was made from 1863 to around 1873, and was available for some years after that as a cartridge conversion. That would be during the 1800's... :neener:

I have one that was supposed to have been made in 1872. Shoots pretty good too. :)

Smokin_Gun
October 26, 2006, 12:31 PM
I believe the original 1858 Rem patent was 1858 Old Army if you will(Colt beat the price with the 1860), the Beals was 1861, and the Dept. of the Army after many changes was back to the 1858 New Model Army and purchased around 1863 for Union troops.
This is correct as far as I know.
All I can tell ya is that Colt made a great Revs, Remington improved on them with the Top Strap design or full frame, and Colt took that Remington design and made a perfectly balanced 7 1/2" barreled Rev called the "Peacemaker" or 1873 SAA(Colt beat the price again with the Schofield cart.). In 1875 Remington improved on the 1858 convertions. So I guess you have to say they are both great revolvers and just a matter of preferance whether Cap & Ball or Cartridge gun.
I'm still an 1858 Remington man who likes an has Colts...
:evil:

Colt46
October 27, 2006, 12:20 AM
From what I understand the cylinder will hold up to modern, smokeless powder type pressures. Using them on a regular basis just might lessen the lifespan of the '58s frame. Most conversion outfits have a little disclaimer and advocate using cowboy action type pressure levels. As emergency home defence I doubt it will be a problem. Just don't make a habit of it.

sundance44s
October 27, 2006, 08:17 AM
I was refering to the ROA ( Ruger Old Army ) who`s army ? lol

motorcycle_dan
October 27, 2006, 01:05 PM
Okay some questions.
1. Did Ruger make these in .44 and .45 caliber?
2. Does anyone make conversion for the Ruger to shoot BP cartridge 45LC?
Thanks
Dan

sundance44s
October 27, 2006, 01:18 PM
Dan the ROA > Ruger Old Army is a cap and baller in 44cal .. and you can buy a conversion cylinder for it .. which shoots the 45Long Colt . It`s a well made pistol ..built to last , the only thing it`s hard on is ones wallet . You can buy 2 Remmies for what it cost ..ouch !

Burt Blade
October 28, 2006, 11:36 PM
Avoid full power .45 loads. The repro 1858s were never meant for modern stuff. You can easily stretch a BP frame with full power loads.

The conversion cylinders are meant for _light_ cowboy loads. My Remingtons work best with light loads driving 180 grain bullets. Lightly loaded 200s work fairly well.

Doc Rizzi
January 5, 2007, 01:52 AM
I would not relish the thought of discharging my black powder pistol in my house. Even with cowboy loads that ball is likely to end up in your neighbors bedroom. Use your double-barrel coach gun with 00. It will not stink up your stairwell and it won't end up in your neighbors house, however....there will be a mess for the coroner to clean up.

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