[cpileri]

Who lives in the "Perfect state"?
defined as:

1. shall issue ccw
2. no limit on capacity of feeding devices of any type
3. private transfer of both long- and handguns perfectly legal
4. class 3 OK
5. has added itself to the list of ones that won't enforce the P.A.

no negotiating on these above points.
I'm moving in a year and will choose from the list generated here!

As for a 'permanent residence' add to the above list:
6. good schools, or allows homeschooling without too much hassle
7. a catholic church somewhere
8. sunny weather at least part of the year (doesn't need to be Christmas Island or anything, seasons are OK with me)

gravy would be:
9. has coastline (wife likes the beach)

Any states qualify?
C-

[Matthew Temkin]

Vermont comes the closest since they do not issue permits since anyone can carry without one. And is crime running rampart there?

[Art Eatman]

Since the Patriot Act is federal law, it doesn't matter about any state's disapproval. The state law enforcement isn't charged with enforcing its provisions--which will be enforced whether a state legislature or a municipal council likes it or not.

Otherwise, Texas pretty much has what you say you want.

Art

[berettaman]

Visit Oklahoma!:what:

[BlkHawk73]

1. shall issue ccw
2. no limit on capacity of feeding devices of any type
3. private transfer of both long- and handguns perfectly legal
4. class 3 OK
5. has added itself to the list of ones that won't enforce the P.A.
6. good schools, or allows homeschooling without too much hassle
7. a catholic church somewhere
8. sunny weather at least part of the year (doesn't need to be Christmas Island or anything, seasons are OK with me)
9. has coastline (wife likes the beach)

1. we have "shall issue" CCW here. A qualifying course (NRA, etc) and $40 application fee and you're all set.
2. If it's legal federally to possess, it's legal under state laws
3. People do it quite a bit. got some of mine this way.
4. (see above #2) Actually had ClassIII shoots for the past few yrs. Brother has two Class III pieces himself.
5. That's a federal issue but no big deal here.
6. Excellant school districts, and home schooling is an option. A number of good colleges also.
7. Churches are readily available. The cities accomodate e the larger ones while many are smaller "local" ones are among the rural areas.
8. winters can be hard, mud, wet, rainy, snowy. spring is...well, spring, rainy sunny, chilly,warm...summer is very nice. Not brutally hot 80's, fall is awsome - 70's and tons of colors.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Art's right. Texas has what you're after for the most part. You might look around the Texas coast from say, Corpus Christi on down. Rural areas or small towns are nice. As far as climatology, you can find any ecosystem in Texas except tundra.

Howdy, and welcome.

Regards,
Rabbit.

[TheLastBoyScout]

Pennsylvania. Meets all your requirements except coastline and possibly Patriot Act. But then again as someone else pointed out the feds enforce the act so the state doesnt really come in to the equation on that. Also, we have the most NRA members of any state except Texas.

- I live in the suburbs of Philadelphia. It's a little more liberal than I would like but the public schools are very good and the Archdiocese has a huge number of schools. There are also very good Catholic private schools (run by religious orders as opposed to the parishes or diocese).

[Feanaro]

Count Alabama out of that list. Great place but there is no shall issue for CCW. Otherwise it's got all that stuff other than good schools. And homeschool isn't that hard. It even has Gulf Shores. :)

[Bostonterrier97]

Vermont (there is NO CCW, you just put it in your pocket and go..)

Otherwise, I would have to say Arizona and Idaho are the next best states.

[Wildalaska]

Alaska

[cpileri]

No really, I truly love this forum. :)

anyway...

Actaully, my home of record is TX. But i am currently exiled. When i put in for my next duty station i am choosing from the list you all are generating for me!

Keep 'em coming!
and THANKS!
C-

[TechBrute]

Another vote for Texas.

[45Badger]

Correction- PA does not have private transfer of handguns. Other than that, it's cool.

NEW HAMPSHIRE is where to go. Great for all gun stuff. Also no state income tax or sales tax. One of the lowest "overall tax burden" states out there.

If only those libs from the PRM would stay in their own state, it would be perfect.

[Outlander]

All of this sounds just like New Jersey, freedom to buy whatever you want, be able to defend yourself, no waiting 30 days for your "purchase permit" ........ Oh, I'm sorry, I was dreaming out loud again. :(

[.45TCB]

Don't know about the Patriot Act thing, but otherwise give Tennessee a look. We don't have any beaches, but there are the beautiful Smoky Mountains in E TN.

[Sam Adams]

You only waited 30 days for the permit to purchase? Geez, I waited nearly 8 weeks in Jersey City in '89 - and it was real fun getting 2 non-family people to sign off on it when I had been out of state for most of the past 8 years...

Anyway, I'm glad that I'm gone. It was a nice place to grow up, before the NYC liberals totally F'ed it up with high taxes and costly permits for everything from guns to permission to wipe your buttocks.

One of my favorite memories is that of crossing the Delaware Memorial Bridge on 12/20/00 on the way to Texas, waiting until we passed the "Welcome to Delaware" sign, and telling my wife, "now you won't have to bail me out." After the wide eyes came the inevitable, "What!? Why? What's WRONG?" I indicated that in the back of the car was about 200 years in Rahway worth of "illegal" magazines (which I had acquired AFTER the Florio AWB, on purpose). More wide-open eyes. Since she didn't know much about guns at the time, I explained it to her in great detail (we were almost out of Delaware by then). Being fairly logical (for a woman - and, yes, my triple-layered flame-resistant suit is ON), she quickly commented on how stupid NJ's laws were; she then asked me if Texas was that way and I was glad to inform her that we were moving to a (mostly) free country. She didn't even comment when I got my carry license, except to complain that I'd be gone all day for the class.

Neither of us is going back to NJ, except for (very infrequent) visits (like the one I have to make next month). I can't even bring my .45 to carry around the state, despite the far higher danger of being the victim of crime there than here in TX. Oh, well, at least it will make me appreciate leaving NJ. I will miss the Italian food and the bagels, but sometimes you have to sacrifice...

Which part of the PRNJ are you from? I'm originally from Freehold, but have lived in Jersey City, West Orange, Highland Park, East Brunswick and Lawrenceville.

No offense, but why don't you leave, and come to a free state?

[Outlander]

Sam Adams .... I guess you wrote a new song ..."Happiness is NJ in the rearview mirror" :D

I was born in Jersey City and stayed there until I was 30, been in Bergen County for the last 27 years.

My first permit took 6 MONTHS :fire: ... second, 3 months. Since then it's been 30 days or less. Not too bad.

Why are we still here????
I'm retired but my wife is still teaching, finally she's making a great salary ... with my pension and her pay we're doing quite well. Once she retires ...we're out of here.

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Uh, duh, what's a Patriot Act? Honest, first I've ever heard of it.
I've lived in the northern rockies most of my life & never heard of the issue, whatever it is, being raised.
900F

[David Park]

cpileri, Virginia qualifies on all counts except for maybe the Patriot Act thing. Where can I find this list of states that won't enforce the Act?

CB900F, the Patriot Act is a federal law passed (i.e., rammed through Congress without even being read) right after 9/11. It gives increased powers to federal law enforcement so that they can better "fight terrorism" (i.e., possibly violate our civil liberties even easier than usual). I'm sure a search of the forum archives will turn up more info.

[OkieGentleman]

Try Oklahoma!! Of course it does get a little "breezy" around here about once a week. :what:

By the way did you hear about the guy that ruined the transmission in his new VW during the May 8th tornado?
It seems he put it in reverse and backed, as fast as he could, to get away from the tornado crossing I-35 in front of him.

He had just moved here from California last month to get away from the earthquakes. :D

[cpileri]

Your not exactly selling Oklahoma to me!
Lived in CA before, and earthquakes i can handle. Not that I'm going back.
C-

[geegee]

I just went outside to look, and I'm pretty sure there's room for you around here. Texas! geegee

[Matt1911]

I am surprised nobody mentioned Indiana. Real gun friendly here.

[modifiedbrowning]

Check out Montana. No idea on their stance on Patriot Act, but I doubt they've declared against. As far as weather summer is very nice, all two months of it. It is snowing out right now!:(

[stevelyn]

Another vote for Alaska.
Shall issue, VT style reform in Senate Committee.
Not enough federal weenies to enforce PA.
More coastline than the Lower 48 combined on all coasts. Okay, some of it can be icebound at times.
No shortage of Catholic Churches.
Class 3 friendly.
Summers are sunny.......sun dosen't set from June to Aug.
Private tranfers legal.
Feeding devices unrestricted.
Schools are okay, large % of homeschooling/alternative.

Welcome to Alaska!

[spacemanspiff]

another shout out for Alaska.
i was homeschooled through the program offered by the State, which means it cost absolutely nothing, from 1st grade till i dropped out. i'm sure its changed since then (nearly ten years) but there are plenty of other options that are very affordable and flexible.

[vi9er]

VA All the way!
Shall Issue,
No waiting period,
On the coast,
Warm 1/2 the year, get snow in winter
"Sic Semper Tyrannis" says it all
Ed

[Tom B]

Georgia! On every issue but item 5. I've even heard there was a Catholic Church here in the state somewhere! :what:

[SteelyDan]

cpileri, just to put things in perspective, I hope you're not making your decision solely on the basis of the gun laws. I mean, that's something I'd want to check out, too, but there are other things that should enter into the equation.

[cpileri]

SteelyDan,
Not really. My next assignment will be from a short list of states, so 1-5 will be important.
After my time, when i can choose from all 50 states 6-9 will take on a more significant role.
I'm not THAT single minded!
C-

[moa]

Alabama not shall issue CCW? I have a couple of relatives who lived there for a while and they had not problem getting a CCW. I thought it was a shall issue state for sure.

[madmike]

Indiana.

Shall issue, $25 for 4 years. No training program required. State preemption. No permit required to carry long guns, except if it's a loaded shotgun during hunting season, then license required. Any weapon legally possessed under 26" may be carried. This includes Class 3. Silencers common. Auto slightly less, but only because of $$$. Police rarely check for CCW. Carrying without license misdemeanor only. Homeschooling easy. Good schools outside of Gary and certain parts of Indy. Taxes moderate. Standard of living high. Temporary spate of unemployment passing. Lake beaches, national forests, farmland, rolling hills. Property cheap.

How cheap?

Friend of mine has 3000 sq ft less than 8 miles from downtown for $150,000, on a 1/4 acre lot. House built in 1990s. Another has old farmhouse on 8 acres, 4 miles from downtown, for $100K.

Fast food paying $8 an hour, other wages as expected with that as the minimum.

Oh, and you can shoot at Camp Atterbury for FREE. All day, every day in the summer.

Several good local stores and smiths. 1500 table gun show five times a year.

I've seen _ONE_ place with a "no carry" sign in 7 years of living here.

And mentioning gun control in a campaign is generally political suicide around here.

[semf]

I like Fla. It qualifies under 1,2,&3 And I believe #4. Not sure about #5

Besides that glove box carry is legal with no permit and I think we're up to 23 reciprical states on CCW

[semf]

Just read the second part definetly qualifies on all, if you home school.

[Cosmoline]

Alaska is both Vermont style and shall issue, and has taken a hard line against the Patriot Act. It's probably the only state in the union which would set itself up as a republic if there were a federal law creating Australia style confiscation.

[Augustwest]

I'd look in to NH.

Check out:

Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org)

[Cosmoline]

I'm still scratching my head at how New Hampshire won. It's tiny and surrounded by some of the worst states in the nation. Moreover, it's full of almost limitless rules and regulations. Every little burg has a town planner. You have to get permission to build anything. Layers of regulations and covenants dictate everything from the type of grass you have to the color of your house!

Call that freedom, cause I sure don't.

[Balog]

I'll vote for Alaska. See my thread discussing it here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=44551

[hillbilly]

Arkansas has all that but the coastline.

And if you count lake shore as coastline, then it's got more coastline than many states with actual coasts.

hillbilly

[Ed N.]

Hard to beat Florida. Wonderful coastline, lots of tourist stuff, beautiful rural areas (we're one of the top cattle states - betcha didn't know that), decent hunting, outstanding scuba diving, etc., and gun laws better than Texas. Heck, we even have a Bush for governor.

I'd say Florida meets all your qualifications, though I'm not sure what you're looking for about the Pat Act. That's federal law; it's not up to the states to do anything with it.

Just avoid the Miami area.

[Don Galt]

I've been looking. I've got the above criteria, except for weather, plus a whole lot more.

The only state that makes sense to me is Alaska.

Course, I haven't lived there yet so I can't speak from experience.... but all my investigation shows that the traditionally reasonable states are still moving in the direction of California (NH is getting flooded with MAssachusetts refugees who will make the state like Mass. and the FSP doesn't even have a plan other than moving people there.) Even Texas is becomming increasingly socialist.

Alaska has the same problem its seems slower to adopt these policies, and it has some structural and cultural differences-- much of the state is native owned, much of the populace is independant spririted, taxes are lower there than in any other state, and you can actually buy a house without committing to the neighborhood color scheme for painting it!

Don

[JumboFriendly]

Alabama is shall issue. I got my Permit in about 10 minutes, the cost is $20, at least in Mobile County.

[Wayne D]

VA All the way!
Shall Issue,
No waiting period,
On the coast,
Warm 1/2 the year, get snow in winter
"Sic Semper Tyrannis" says it all


Did you forget about our "One gun a month law"?

[willyjixx]

count NV in!

CCW is shall issue
Class 3s are ok
hi-cap mags ore good!
cant do nothing about the patriot act

good schools! UNR and UNLV! an many many good schools

plenty of catholic, mormon, christian, jewish churches

winters get to 30s in Reno and summers get to 100

lots of tourist an no problems with private party sales

[bayerta]

Well, since no one else has said it. North Carolina is a great place to look into.

[lawson4]

Check out South Carolina.
I don't know the position on P.A., otherwise it has everything you list.

Rick

[RCReecer]

Second vote for GA. And yes, there are Catholic churches here, they are just harder to find. Great weaher, we have a cost line, and it's shall issue. Buy what you want when you want from who you want. If you have a permit, there is no waiting when buying from a dealer. Class III is OK as long as you have the paperwork.

[MrPink]

Vermont is not a "shall issue" state per se, because it is the only state in the union that has no permitting requirement. Or as I like to say, in Vermont your driver's license is your CCW.

Class 3 is legal except for supressors or rather it is a $50 fine to use one(concerns about poaching). But if they never hear you.....

Coastline is along Lake Champlain and other lakes. The only bitch about the state is winters are long and tough. But if you like the snow and alpine sports, this place is great. Can't beat the fall when the leaves turn. Absolutely beautiful.

Folks around here have a "don't tread on me" attitude and will pretty much leave you alone. While I own 600 acres in northern Vermont, I have let my neighbors and local LE know about my class 3 fetish so they don't freak. I've even had shoots with the local cops.

[Hutch]

While AL may SEEM like a "shall issue", it's really a may-issue state. That being said, I am unaware of a single instance in which the sheriff turned someone down.

[p35]

Oregon would cover a lot of that, but the schools are a disgrace due to lack of funding. WA is better on lifestyle issues but doesn't allow Class 3.

[Combat-wombat]

What about Ory-gun?

[TRIDENT]

Another vote for Texas.

[Don Galt]

New Hampshire wone the FSP voting, not because its a good state, but because the voting method was rigged to choose it... it was the closest state to the most FSP members. Yes, Cali has more total members, its a much bigger state, but the center of gravity of that group is in the east, and with NH high in the running at the time the voting method was picked, the lock was in.

Unfortunately, the FSP has turned out to be something other than it promised.

[Cosmoline]

Thanks for the info on the FSP. It still boggles my mind, but more power to the folks who actually move there.

[Balog]

Don Galt: I've seen you making these accusations against the FSP before. Do you have any evidence? Not saying it's not true, but from what I've seen it's just your opinion.

[Werewolf]

:confused: Uhhhhh.....

What the heck is FSP?

[Don Galt]

Evidence against the FSP? Just look at the voting method they chose. By that voting method, NH was assured to win.

Unfortunately, they censor their forums pretty heavily, so the incriminating stuff has been deleted.

My primary allegation is that they do not have a plan-- and you can look at their website for evidence of that. Their idea is to move a bunch of people there and ??? they get a free state.

They haven't connected the dots between moving there and achieving freedom, and thats the biggest problem. ITs a non-trivial problem.

But also, since they have the barrier for entry so low-- not that I'm elitest, I just think people should have a philosophy that they agree on before trying to form a voting block-- I think a good percentage of the 20,000 do not agree on what makes a "free state".

I don't think they are evil, and I hope they achieve what they want to achieve. I do think that they are not well organized and theres a good chance they will achieve the opposite of what they want... that they will hurt the libertarian movement more than they will help. But that is just opinion. The criticism above are subject to whether you agree with me or not ,but there's not a smoking gun that proves the FSP is evil... I'm not really saying they are. Just that they didn't turn out to be what they claimed... they don't really have a plan for achieving "liberty in our lifetime".

Werewolf--
FSP is the Free State Project, their website is www.freestateproject.org.

[dustind]

Evidence against the FSP? Just look at the voting method they chose. By that voting method, NH was assured to win.

Would you mind explaining how? No one seemed to mind the method until after NH won, but seriously how did the system help NH, I think 60%+ of the people voting for that state helped it. The voting results for each person are available online by the way.
I do not get how ranking states you want to win in order is unfair.
example: NH>WY>AK>MT>etc>etc
You end up giving less points as you move down the list, seems fair to me and everyone else in the three years prior to the vote.

Unfortunately, they censor their forums pretty heavily, so the incriminating stuff has been deleted.

Wrong again, any evidence? I have searched and found the opposite to be true, there is almost no regulation. (on a libertarian bbs, go figure)
You can read some pretty extreme opinions written after NH won still archived on the board.

My primary allegation is that they do not have a plan-- and you can look at their website for evidence of that. Their idea is to move a bunch of people there and ??? they get a free state.

They haven't connected the dots between moving there and achieving freedom, and thats the biggest problem. ITs a non-trivial problem.

The stated goal was to move 20,000 people there, nothing more or less. If you look at the website there are indeed many pages of plans. They are already underway with the plan and will have many reps by the next election day.

But also, since they have the barrier for entry so low-- not that I'm elitest, I just think people should have a philosophy that they agree on before trying to form a voting block-- I think a good percentage of the 20,000 do not agree on what makes a "free state".

There is almost perfect cohesion, a few religious zealots want the state constitution to recognize their god, people do not seem to agree on public nudity or if the roads themselves should be privately owned, but that is about it.

[Don Galt]

Uh, they edit the forums, so the evidence of them deleting contrary opinions has.... wait for it... been deleted! :banghead:

Go check some of the non-official forums and you'll find posts from many people who've been censored and/or kicked off the FSP forums for having a non-politically approved opinion.

[Sodbuster]

I doubt they've declared against it (the Patriot Act)
Refering to Montana, you are right, the state hasn't. But several towns' city councils have, although it is purely symbolic, of course. Missoula, the state's most liberal city, and Bozeman, one of the state's most conservative, have both proclaimed disagreement to the Patriot Act. Good states to me are MT WY UT ID AK TX TN and VT (although I'd have to go too far west to get there :D )