Pistol-Whipping...

[Low-Sci]

This is something I've been wondering about for a little while, actually. Specifically, pistol-whipping a person with a polymer-frame pistol.

I know, guns are for shooting, not slapping. Bear with me.

The question is, has anyone broken the frame of their polymer frame pistol? If they did, how much did it take to break it, and is it practically possible to break the frame of a poly-frame pistol by pistol-whipping someone?

I only ask, not because I intend to do it mind you, but I'm curious. I'll be doing some other research, but any personal experience anyone has would be fantastic.

Thanks in advance.

[carpediem]

I'd be more concerned about damaging the feeding/firing mechanism or a negligent discharge myself.

[strambo]

"pistol whipping" has a bad, and I think the wrong conotation. Handgun striking can be very effective and the right answer in certain cirumstances. Circumstances like your gun jams at close quarters or the situation changes to non-lethal threat after you've already drawn.

I would think polymer would be plenty strong used as an impact weapon on humans. A human body would likely give/break before the polymer. Besides, the best impact point is the side of the slide or the muzzle. Hard on guns, you bet, but a well made gun can take it and the body will give. I practice with an ASP "red gun" on heavy bags. Can muzzle punch into (penetrate) a heavy bag...it will fracture ribs/sternum on a human.

I think the primary concern is a discharge, need to practice good trigger discipline. The main structural concern would be when muzzle punching...hard on the barrel locking lugs for an auto. Full length dust cover would take care of most of this problem though. If you practice with a dummy gun, your real one might have to endure only one strike in its service life, but the odds are against it. Good tool for the tool box though IMO.

[PlayboyPenguin]

Ahhh...a good old fashioned "pistol whipping" thread. Takes me back to my childhood.:evil:

[BIGDADDYLONGSTROKE]

Strange the most common types of pistol whipping is used with the magwell part of the handgun witht he mag in it of course. could this damage the gun or magwell or mag? Is this an inefective way?

[gunsmith]

you could mar the finish

[Ryder]

People drive over polymer guns with vehicles to prove how tough those guns are, doubt they break easy. As for the efficacy of it I would think steel is your best choice due to the weight.

I've thought on it some. My first impression is that since it is not something I have any training with I can't expect to be any good at it. Sounds like a great way to drop my gun. The most useful scenario I've imagined would be a prod to the head with the end of the barrel. In my experiences taking an impact to the head with a hard object gets a lot of results without a whole lot of force (ouch). On a semi-auto slide setback causing a jammed cartridge is going to be a real concern unless it's a 1911 style gun with the safety on or something like a Springfield XD with it's standoff guiderod.

[DWARREN123]

Use a leather slap or baton. Hitting something/someone with your handgun can damage it so don't damage your handgun.

[strambo]

Ryder, the easiest, most natural way is simply muzzle punching with a 2 hand grip. Step in and using your body weight in motion punch your arms out impacting muzzle first. On a human, the best targets are the throat or sternum. This is to be considered lethal force, either target will likely kill him or cause serious injury.

The second best strike IMO is with the side of the slide. If done to the chest, sternum it will be non-lethal unless he has a heart condition or fractures his skull when he falls. This takes a tad more skill than the muzzle punch, but not much.

Step in to get your body weight in motion. Release your grip with the left hand while turning the gun sideways (muzzle facing left). Place your left palm on the slide, fingers pointing up. The motion is the same as a palm strike to his chest with your left hand. Only difference is there is a 1lb hunk of metal slide in between your palm and his chest.

Practice both of these slow on a heavy bag...up to 1/2 force if using a real (triple checked, unloaded) pistol. If practiced on another person, go slow enough that it is a shove, not a strike. They should be propelled back at least 3 feet by your full body weight behind it, shove.

Get a training pistol and feel free to go full force, full body weight (only on a heavy bag;) ). These are devastating strikes. You know if you are getting your body weight into it by checking your foot position. If your front foot is even with, or a few inches beyond the target when you strike, you have penetrated fully. His body will be displaced by your body weight like a pendulum.

A 100lb person could collapse a heart, fracture a sternum this way. 100lbs of mass X 5-10mph with a 2lb piece of metal at the end of 20lbs worth of arms moving maybe 35-50mph. Focused on a few square inches of unyielding steel. Ouchy!:what:

[strambo]

Use a leather slap or baton. Hitting something/someone with your handgun can damage it so don't damage your handgun.
Neither of which are legal to carry in most jurisdictions, even when a firearm is. Furthermore, if a strike becomes the correct answer in a fight and your gun is out, you'll not have time to grab something else. Either strike with free hand or foot or use the gun. If it jammed, who cares about possible damage? This is a very rare skill to need, it's easy to practice it though. The two I described are gross motor skills. If you never need it, groovy.

[SixForSure]

Years ago I read an interview with Bill Jordan. When he was talking about the development of the Model 19 and his input to Smith & Wesson he said he was asked (by S&W) why he felt the ejector rod shroud was needed and he said "in case someone accidently bumps his head on my gun"

[Sistema1927]

I have never had to pistol whip anyone (though I have been sore tempted a few times), but I would think that the preferred weapon would be a steel N-frame S&W.

[C-grunt]

I dont think the polymer will break. I have never seen someone break the stock of an M-16 when butt-stroking. I have also seen an M-16 used to ram a door. I know there is a steel tube in it, but not at the bottom by the sling mount.

[JMusic]

On revolvers the trigger guard and ejector shroud is usually used. I would guess the same area for semi auto's would work just as well.

Jim

[SigfanUSAF]

A "Seattle Slug" in the bottom of my G-19:D Pistol whipping was not why I bought it, but I guess it would do nicely:evil:

[el44vaquero]

I saw a thing on wild west tech about Wyatt Earp. It said he didn't hit them with the pistol butt like it shows in the movies, but instead used the long and heavy colt peacemaker barrel.

[BullfrogKen]

I know of a particular alloy frame 1911 that had its dust cover bent when it came into contact with a skull.


And that's all I have to say about that . . .

[wally]

the easiest, most natural way is simply muzzle punching with a 2 hand grip. Step in and using your body weight in motion punch your arms out impacting muzzle first. On a human, the best targets are the throat or sternum.

So that's why JMB designed the safety of the 1911 to lock the slide when engaged. :)

--wally.

[walking arsenal]

MMMMMMMMM, Pistol whip. -Homer Simpson










Ha ha ha ha, i said it first!

[Moonclip]

I have heard j frame S&W's can have the trigger guard bent by this. I would assume Glocks are not good for this and would avoid it with most revolvers especially w/o a protected ejector rod housing. A non gun friend years back claimed he did it with an HK P7 but he was probably lying.

[Blue Jays]

Hi All-

Use an unopened pocketknife or a roll of quarters in your hand if you want to slug someone. Use a pistol or revolver if you need to shoot them. I can't see the sense of hitting someone with a handgun.

~ Blue Jays ~

[Standing Wolf]

Blood ruins bluing instantly.

[Geronimo45]

I guess it's a remote possibility of being useful to a civvie - if you're drawing on somebody close to you, who's got the drop on you already. You might be able to slap the gun out of their hand if you can draw fast enough on an uprepared party, which is already a dangerous proposition.
Method? I don't know. Swinging the muzzle into the wrist wouldn't brighten up their day. A good lanyard ring could hurt you, too.
Oh, and blood doesn't clean up easily. Don't try it with a park'd gun.

P.S. Pistol-whipping is not a suggested method of corporal punishment of children.

[Dienekes]

Years ago (statute of limitations plus) an old time small town cop told me that his Model 28 4" was very effective in that mode.

Closest I came to it was with a 1911 but no contact. The BG's eyes got really big when the gun came out and he quit fighting right there. Probably just as well as Charlie Askins once clonked a horse over the head with a 1911 and bent the frame. Horses are hard-headed in more ways than one...

Elmer Keith was dead set against it as it could be hard on the gun.

[unixguy]

Please don't engage in pistol whipping. If your pistol is mis-behaving, it's probably ALL YOUR FAULT, and you need to send it to someone who can take care of it and understand it, or with proper care and training, you and your pistol can learn to work together in harmony.








:)

[Dr.Rob]

There is a reason Fitz Colts had lead in the butt.

But on a bad note I had a Denver cop tell me a war story of bending the barrel on a Colt Python during an arrest.

(My guess is he bent it at the threads)

I'd hate to ruin a Python that way.

[Jet22]

you could mar the finish

I believe that is rule #4 in safe gun handling.:D