If someone shoots my dog...


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Famine
October 24, 2006, 11:19 PM
My state law says I can't shoot someone in my home unless I'm in harms way. Okay, lets say someone breaks in to my home and shoots my dog but doesn't point the gun at me. Do you think I can shoot him (or her)? I mean, my dog IS my family, he costs more than my daughter, and weighs more than my wife.:)

Am I wrong, or does it seem that if someone shot my dog in my house, then no matter what, I've got the right to end their day.

Just curious.

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Pilgrim
October 24, 2006, 11:22 PM
It is my opinion that if you wait to see what he does next you may end up dog meat.

Pilgrim

Lone_Gunman
October 24, 2006, 11:23 PM
I think you need to take the dog out of your thought processes.

If an intruder is in your home with a gun, he is a threat to YOU and YOUR FAMILY and you should be in fear of your life. If you use lethal force, that needs to be your reason, and leave the dog out of it.

You will never convince a jury that a dog's life is equal to that of a person, even a criminal. But if he is in your house with a gun, it is the life of you and your family you are trying to defend.

pcosmar
October 24, 2006, 11:25 PM
Someone in your home ,armed , and violent is fair game. Protect your home, and yourself.

deadin
October 24, 2006, 11:25 PM
I would think that if someone breaks into my house with a gun and shot my dog, I would have a pretty good shot at a "I was in fear for my life" defense.

Dean

real_name
October 24, 2006, 11:27 PM
If someone was in my house after breaking in, shot one of my dogs and didn't point the gun at me my actions would be these.
Fear for my life. He has a gun, has illegally entered my house and has shot my dog. I would be assuming I am near the top of his to-do list regardless of where the gun is pointed. Especially as he would be right in assuming that I am less than happy about the shooting.
Now I am fearing for my life I draw my carry gun, if he moves his gun in my direction I will shoot.
If he backs out to leave I will call 911.

I will perform CPR on the dog.

It takes a lot to keep your head when all around are losing theirs.

XLMiguel
October 24, 2006, 11:27 PM
A "reasonalbe man" should assume that if they shot your dog, they'd shoot you, too; an obvious mortal threat to you & yours. Neutralilzing the threat would certainly be justified. Anyone worth shooting is worth shooting twice. and maybe three or four times for the dog, if it were at my place

Biker
October 24, 2006, 11:27 PM
Nah, if a man enters your house and fires a weapon at your dog, I doubt any jury would convict you of a damn thing for shooting back.
He didn't come to your house to challenge you to a game of checkers...

Biker

TexasRifleman
October 24, 2006, 11:28 PM
My state law says I can't shoot someone in my home unless I'm in harms way.

Hard to see how you WOULDN'T be in harms way if someone has broken into your home.

Zundfolge
October 24, 2006, 11:30 PM
My state law says...
Which state is that?
(it would be helpful to the discussion to know exactly which state you're talking about).


Shoot one of my dogs and I'm the last thing you'd have to worry about ... my wife will as quickly and painfully as possible disassemble anyone that hurts one of her dogs (we can't have kids so she's pretty maternal with the pets).

Famine
October 24, 2006, 11:35 PM
I'm in Michigan.

Okay, lets say he shoots the dog, sets down the gun, says he is sorry and starts to cry. Can I still shoot him? (This is starting to sound a bit funny.)

real_name
October 24, 2006, 11:36 PM
Okay, lets say he shoots the dog, sets down the gun, says he is sorry and starts to cry. Can I still shoot him? (This is starting to sound a bit funny.)

No and no.

Biker
October 24, 2006, 11:39 PM
Yes and yes.

Biker

Famine
October 24, 2006, 11:44 PM
No and no...yes and yes...that clears it up.:banghead: I guess this is why we are judged by a jury of our peers, eh?

Low-Sci
October 24, 2006, 11:47 PM
When it comes to trusting people who are in my house against my will, I trust them as far as my 6", 150lb butt can throw them.

I dunno about you, but a person in my house plus a gun in that person's hand equals instant and immediate boom. I'm not going to wait to see if he's sorry, I don't care at all. He should have thought about that before he was dead.

Erebus
October 24, 2006, 11:50 PM
Okay, lets say he shoots the dog, sets down the gun, says he is sorry and starts to cry. I don't think you need concern yourself with this. It aintgonnahappen.com

If someone has broken into your home and has fired a gun I think it qualifies as a good reason to be in fear for your life. I know I would. If he was willing to kill a dog I'm not going to wait and see if he is willing to kill me or my family.

real_name
October 24, 2006, 11:50 PM
When it comes to trusting people who are in my house against my will, I trust them as far as my 6", 150lb butt can throw them.

You're six inches tall??

How do you carry, IWB, OWB or in a little wheelbarrow?

River Wraith
October 24, 2006, 11:52 PM
Shoot him before he shoots your dog or anyone else in your family.

Low-Sci
October 24, 2006, 11:54 PM
Whoops. SHould be 6'.

Actually, I carry a 1911 on a pintle mount in the back of Barbie's porshe...

Jackal
October 24, 2006, 11:56 PM
Forget the house. If i'm outside and someone walks into my yard and shoots my dog, thier gonna be chewin on a few hollow points.

bthest86
October 24, 2006, 11:57 PM
I may be wrong but I believe NC allows people to shoot in defense of pets. At least thats what my Civics teacher in my Freshmen year of HS said.

wolfman01
October 24, 2006, 11:59 PM
If someone busts into my house, and shoots my dog, they've already demonstrated their intent to cause harm.. They're gonna be dead. I'm not going to wait for them to decide if and when they're going to take me out.

ArmedBear
October 25, 2006, 12:02 AM
Okay, lets say someone breaks in to my home and shoots my dog but doesn't point the gun at me.

If someone breaks in and fires a gun, or even brandishes a gun, in your house, I don't think anyone will ask where it was pointed when you shot him. But if they do, it was pointed right at you or your family. I'd try to fire BEFORE he shoots my dog, or the rest of my family, personally.

50 Freak
October 25, 2006, 12:07 AM
Someone shoots my dog in my house...I'd plug him full of lead.

But I'd be smarter to the reporting officer....I wouldn't say "he shot my dog and so I shot him 30 times with my AR"....I'd say something like "my dog prevented him from coming after me and my family...the dog was killed which allowed me to shred him to peices with my mini vulcan gun...oh, and also I was in fear of my life:scrutiny: :scrutiny: "

10-Ring
October 25, 2006, 12:10 AM
If an intruder on your property shoots your dog, (who has tried to defend you & your family & apparently failed), that intruder is a threat to you and your family...shooting that intruder would be understandable.

beerslurpy
October 25, 2006, 12:24 AM
Lets break down your question:

If
1) A man breaks into my house
2) with a gun
3) and shoots my dog
....?

You can use lethal force at (1) in jurisdictions like FL. Look for statutes or common law that defines "violent felony" as including "burglary" or "forcible entry of occupied residence." Note that the intruder doesnt have to be armed to be committing a "violent felony." This is true even if you completely outgun him.

Lethal force is automatically authorized at (2) in most jurisdictions across the country. Even in an unqualified duty to retreat (you retreat regardless of location) state, there is little hope of effectively retreating from a man with a firearm who has cornered you within your own home. A man breaking into your house with a gun should be responded to immediately with as much firepower as you can bring to bear, even if it means shooting through walls, pets and appliances.

Although it may offend you the most, (3) does not authorize the use of lethal force by itself. Dogs are property and cannot be defended with lethal force except in states that authorize lethal force in defense of property (TX, possibly LA, some others). However, if the dog is in your house, an intruder will not be able to threaten the dog without also threatening any human residents as well. So lethal force would be authorized in most such situations you described.

JohnKSa
October 25, 2006, 12:35 AM
If someone broke into my house with a gun, I'd already be tremendously worried about my future wellbeing whether he pointed it at me or not.

What happens to the dog doesn't enter into it.

KC&97TA
October 25, 2006, 12:41 AM
The question is... if he killed your favorite hunting dog, while in your home, would you do him the justice of a .45acp or would you put bird shot into him untill the threat was neutralized? ... remembering all those good bird hunting moments that you and fluffy had together, while reloading :uhoh:

I think beerslurpy answered the best so far with all the legal talk in mind.

cropcirclewalker
October 25, 2006, 01:11 AM
Since my dogs are outside and serve as my security system, if someone was to shoot one of them and then attempt to gain entrance to my house he would be riddled upon the first break of glass or door.

I love my dogs heartily but that is why I have them.

Malone LaVeigh
October 25, 2006, 01:17 AM
1) A person illegally in your house.
2) No question over whether he's armed.
3) Has demonstrated a threat.

3 strikes, and he's OUT.

Cosmoline
October 25, 2006, 03:08 AM
One of the dog's main jobs is to soak up bullets while I get the rifle. If someone is on my property killing my dog, I must assume they are doing it in order to get to me. Otherwise why are they on my property killing my dog?

ksnecktieman
October 25, 2006, 03:23 AM
I think the man in your house with a pistol is a threat too you. Not everyone may. If he has fired that gun at your dog, hit or not, I do not think it would matter if you shot him in the back. (The dog interrupted him in the act of shooting you, and you shot him wile he was dealing with the dog first.) The key to this situation might be that silence is golden. do not say anything to the police until you have a lawyer. Call them, and tell them someone has shot your dog, and the dog and the shooter are both dead. End of statement. A lawyer will tell you when to open your mouth. Do not offer them the fact of it being you or your wife that did the shooting. Determining fact is their job. Deciding to prosecute is someone else's job. Convicting you is the job of twelve of your peers.

WayneConrad
October 25, 2006, 03:50 AM
It really does matter what state you are in. There are few "no matter what's" in the law, especially in self defense. Find a good book that covers the gun laws in your state. Take a class from someone who is knowledgable in your state law.

I ain't sure why our opinion matters, especially since you're the one that ends up in the pokie if we guessed wrong.

Don't Tread On Me
October 25, 2006, 06:58 AM
My GF has a dog that she loves. Like one in the family. But she doesn't go over the edge to where she considers it human or equal with a human. That's crossing the line. Dog owners can become delusional over their animals sometimes.

That being said, if I were in public and some dog attacked me - I'd have to pump a few hydrahoks into it because my leg is more important than the dogs life. In fact, that mongrels life isn't worth me having a single scar either. If the owner felt that the dog is equal to a human and decided to defend the dogs life by drawing on me, I'd have to shoot the clinically insane dog owner too. That would eliminate a dangerous animal, and a dangerous psychopath. I'd be justified as no court would ever value the dog owner's argument (if they live) that they were defending life.

Just a bizarre hypothetical that describes the theory pretty much.

Inside the home, the fact that a dog exists or is shot is irrelevant in Florida. If someone breaks into your home, castle doctrine applies and you can use lethal force on them.

However, asking whether or not you can shoot someone because they shot your dog is not wise in any sense. Humans > Animals. It is the wrong way to say things. Rather, you shot the criminal in your home because they were SHOOTING inside your home, which constitutes a major ultra-violent home invasion that threatens the life of every human inside and possibly nearby outside. That's enough justification right there. You don't want to say to the action news reporter "I shot the summabish cause he shot bubba"....


Like others have said, family comes first. Dogs are great animals, but like God intended it, they serve us. If rover takes one for the family by fighting a criminal in your home, he/she is a hero dog doing what is right.

Purely on that alone, if the attacker was some animal-assassin where you could easily determine they had no intent to harm any human, you wouldn't be justified in ending a human life in favor of an animal's life. They'd go to jail for killing your dog with absolute certainty though.

Such a situation reminds me of a Seinfeld episode (I hate that show, but remember it) where they sought to hire a pet hitman....

Anyway, it is totally unrealistic that someone would break into your home, shoot your dog - and that's it. As if that was the intent. They aren't there to take out your dog. Since the goal isn't to kill your dog, their presence in your home is a deadly force threat (they have a gun), and you can respond with lethal force.

TexasRifleman
October 25, 2006, 10:25 AM
Dogs are property and cannot be defended with lethal force except in states that authorize lethal force in defense of property (TX, possibly LA, some others).

And even then you could make the argument that you are not defending just property. You could make a good argument in some cases that the killing of the dog was the precursor to coming to do worse.

If I saw someone in my back yard cutting the house alarm wire, I'd consider that more than just damaging property.

Remember though that you can only use information you would have BEFORE you shoot, so just because you shot a guy killing your dog and found duct tape and burglary tools later, you could not use that information for your defense.

Deanimator
October 25, 2006, 10:42 AM
My state law says I can't shoot someone in my home unless I'm in harms way. Okay, lets say someone breaks in to my home and shoots my dog but doesn't point the gun at me. Do you think I can shoot him (or her)? I mean, my dog IS my family, he costs more than my daughter, and weighs more than my wife.

If you're in my house shooting ANYTHING, my reasonable presumption is that you mean harm. Shooting is lethal force. I may respond to lethal force with lethal force.

Intentionally fire a firearm in my home without my permission and you're history.

BigFatKen
October 25, 2006, 11:03 AM
Suppose some US Marshalls shoot your dog right next to you on your land in a field. Kevin Harris returned fire at Ruby Ridge killing a marshall. If anyone shots my dog, I must think their next target is going to be me just like Sammy Weaver.

At Harris' trial for murder, the jury was out for 45 minutes before givng a not guilty verdic. They did not even break for the free lunch.

22-rimfire
October 25, 2006, 11:08 AM
I would say in the strict sense, you can not shoot somebody for shooting your dog. But you can defend your life if it is threatened. Silencing the dog is one of the first things that a criminal does as dogs are unpredictable. They operate on an instinctive basis.

Lou629
October 25, 2006, 12:03 PM
I saw a sign posted on a fence one time that read:

Never mind
THE DOG
Beware of
OWNER

That would pretty much sum it up for me too. I have to say though, that if some lowlife were to deliberately try to hurt or kill one of my dogs, inside or outside, i'm not sure he'd be too long for this earth, regardless of "castle" or "property" laws, or the lack thereof, in my state. Some things you just can't be expected to swallow without a response, regardless of the law.

progunner1957
October 25, 2006, 12:17 PM
If an intruder is in your home with a gun, he is a threat to YOU and YOUR FAMILY and you should be in fear of your life. If you use lethal force, that needs to be your reason, and leave the dog out of it.

You will never convince a jury that a dog's life is equal to that of a person, even a criminal. But if he is in your house with a gun, it is the life of you and your family you are trying to defend.


What he said. If an intruder breaks in to an occupied home with people there, you must operate under the belief that he intends to do grave bodily harm to those in the home.

When the intruder breaks in to your home and has a gun, the lives of you and your family are at stake. Shoot to stop. Do not "challenge" him ("Drop the gun!") - that only gives him a chance to shoot first.

Seeing as how I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV, I would highly recommend that you buy a half hour of a real practicing attorney's time in your city or county of residence and have him give you valid legal advise on this. Don't trust the "internet attorneys" on any message board!

cortez kid
October 25, 2006, 12:26 PM
Someone breaks into my house, they will be shot. Guns are always near. My lawyers are very good.
kid

Arc-Lite
October 25, 2006, 12:35 PM
my large dogs are very smart, if someone breaks into my home...the dogs get out of MY way.

71Commander
October 25, 2006, 01:30 PM
Famine.......I'm in Michigan.

Okay, lets say he shoots the dog, sets down the gun, says he is sorry and starts to cry. Can I still shoot him? (This is starting to sound a bit funny.)

I live in Michigan as well. A new law went into effect on Sept 1st. A stand your ground law. Even if the bad guy was in your back yard and you felt threatened, you could shoot before he shot your dog. There is no more duty to retreat. Any place you have a legal right to be, you can legally defend yourself.

Veprman
October 25, 2006, 02:26 PM
I dont care what the law says. If someone kills my pet they are dead.

Blackfork
October 25, 2006, 02:48 PM
I've had dogs, admire dogs, like dogs. At the lakehouse, where 15 families live around a lake, people dump dogs all the time. Most of us have extras plus there is usually a pack building or being shot down to size.

You can't catch them. The county won't do anything. I've seen 19 in one years mixed breed pack.

I'm not happy about doing it, and I shoot the collared dogs last, but I have to say I- and other folks around the lake, regularly have to shoot dogs. Usually you are shooting them in your carport as they are wolfing down YOUR dogs food, shooting them out of the pack as they cross the lake road or shooting them out of a deerblind along the beaver swamp behind the lake dam.

We check with each other to keep up on the resident dogs and hold off if there is ANY question as to ownership. Don't want to shoot someone's dog, but the strays have to go.

Years ago when my retired mother moved to this lakehouse she couldn't stomach shooting dogs. By the end of the first year she was keeping a .22 Winchester Model 61 and extra hollowpoints at the back door.

On a related note: seems to be a trend the last decade or so of LEOs regularly shooting folks dogs. I think that's how the Davidian catastrophe started out- with the ATF sub-machining the dogs. Last month I read a report where deputies were killing dogs in a Florida suburb and the dogs were inside locked and fenced yards...the dogs just responded when the deputies shook the gate. No problem. The deputies were immune to prosecution. I think you can find those stories on google or www.theagitator.com

miko
October 25, 2006, 04:11 PM
If a trespasser is in my home with a drawn weapon, I would certainly consider myself in harms way.

On the other hand, you have no right to shoot an intruder even if he has just shot a human, let alone a dog if he does not pose a threat anymore - say, drops his weapon and surrenders.

miko

Autolycus
October 25, 2006, 04:17 PM
Ok...

if some guy breaks in and shoots my Tamagachi but doesnt point the gun at me can I shoot back? Lets say he also puts the gun to the gold fish bowl and threatens my goldfishs' life. Will I be able to shoot back?


If someone breaks into your home and kills your dog then you should probably assume that they are going to kill you. A reasonable person could make that logical leap.

Deanimator
October 25, 2006, 04:26 PM
If someone breaks into your home and kills your dog then you should probably assume that they are going to kill you. A reasonable person could make that logical leap.

If somebody breaks into my home with a WEAPON, I don't care what kind, they're getting shot.

c_yeager
October 25, 2006, 04:45 PM
He doesnt need to shoot your dog first. An intruder in your house with a gun is looking to get shot no matter what he does with it. Hell, and intruder in your house with a stuffed clown doll is probably a good shoot if he waves it around in a menacing enough way.

beerslurpy
October 25, 2006, 05:09 PM
I dont care what the law says. If someone kills my pet they are dead.

Lol internet tough guy. You will care what the law says when you are caught breaking it.

22-rimfire
October 25, 2006, 05:59 PM
Temporary insanity defense.... I can see it now. Attaching human qualities to any pet is stupid. If you killed someone for killing your dog, I hope I'm on the jury as you are headed to prison for a long long time.

Deanimator
October 25, 2006, 06:22 PM
Temporary insanity defense.... I can see it now. Attaching human qualities to any pet is stupid. If you killed someone for killing your dog, I hope I'm on the jury as you are headed to prison for a long long time.
Anybody who'd see his dog shot in his own home and not consider it likely that he was next, needs his head examined.

It's usually the anti-gunners who tell you to trust to the better judgement and forebearance of armed, violent home invaders...

jerkyman45
October 25, 2006, 06:30 PM
If they're on your property and shooting, drop them fast.

jnojr
October 25, 2006, 06:37 PM
Attaching human qualities to any pet is stupid.

You're right.

It's an insult to dogs to compare them to humans.

22-rimfire
October 25, 2006, 07:14 PM
I dont care what the law says. If someone kills my pet they are dead. I wanted to make it perfectly clear that my previous post was in reaction to this posting.

If you are in my house and you kill my dog, I think I would have very good reason to think my life is in danger.

Post has to do with posting dumb generalities and all encompassing statements.

Situation: Little cuddly dog walking down the street looking for other dogs or a place to pinkle.... man shoots dog and you see it happen. You draw weapon and shoot him for the act. Your life was never in danger.

txgho1911
October 25, 2006, 09:44 PM
If a person breaks in and kills the dog.
I think it would be wise to assume that person was neutralizing the most obvious threat to themselves.
My dogs would jump and hide. They do not like the sound of my pistol.

Art Eatman
October 25, 2006, 09:51 PM
A few thoughtful replies to a rather strange beginning. Unfortunately, there's a lot of macho posturing which reflects poorly on the intended purpose of this website.

Which is the main reason so many L&P threads get closed.

Art

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