Compact 45! Need your opinion!


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HeyRobi
October 25, 2006, 03:10 AM
I am looking at getting a 45 and have narrowed it down to 3! Can I get some feedback on these 3 models.

Springfield Armory 1911 Ultra Compact
http://www.gundirectory.com/more.asp?gid=20253&gun=Pistol

Colt Defender
http://www.gundirectory.com/more.asp?gid=20174&gun=Pistol


Kimber Ultra Carry II
http://www.gundirectory.com/more.asp?gid=20192&gun=Pistol

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Ala Dan
October 25, 2006, 08:53 AM
I have this very same pistol in the stainless steel version, and it has become
my everyday CCW piece~!:cool: :D

sjones63
October 25, 2006, 08:57 AM
I have one I just bought last week,had a few problems for the 1st 50 rounds then it smoothed right out.now it doesn't miss a lick and one of the most accurate guns I've ever shot.sj:D

10-Ring
October 25, 2006, 09:30 AM
I prefer the Colt, but you should try them in your hands. Although they are very similar, almost identical, they do have fit & feel differences. I would suggest fondling each prospect and getting the one that feels best to you. Also, if they all feel the same, get the one you can get the better deal on ;)

tegemu
October 25, 2006, 12:22 PM
I love my Kimber Ultra Carry II. It is my pocket carry gun. After break in, which kimber says is normal, it has been great.

Manedwolf
October 25, 2006, 12:37 PM
I love my Kimber Ultra Carry II. It is my pocket carry gun. After break in, which kimber says is normal, it has been great.

Yeah, for the price of Kimbers, I suppose something like expecting it to shoot to POA and not have any FTFs out of the box is absolutely out of the question. :rolleyes:

I'd vote for the Springfield...still think with Kimber, you're paying for the faddish name and not getting the pre-tuned performance you should get for their price.

HeyRobi
October 25, 2006, 01:06 PM
Man I was hoping more votes for the Springfield! I have a XD40SC and love it! I decided I wanted a 45 after seeing the defender. I have a Mustang .380 and love it too! (My two favorite guns) so I am torn! The Kimber looks basically the sames as the defender and I don't have a Kimber yet! Thanks for the feedback on the Kimber I will look at that one a little more!

Helstrm
October 25, 2006, 01:27 PM
Go check them out at a shop, see which one you like the best... The 3 you have listed are all great quality shooters and unless you get a lemon you can't go wrong with any of them. That being said any advice you get will more than likely be based on the model that each of us own.

Buy the one the feels the best in your hands and your budget. I also agree that the Kimber is a bit over priced but they are still fine weapons.

FTF
October 25, 2006, 01:42 PM
I have a Kimber Ultra CDP. Overall, I'm pretty happy with it, and I rotate it and my 642 for carry duty. You'll need wilson mags as the stock Kimber mags are crap. I had to put about 750 rounds through mine before I felt it was 100%. It's certainly accurate enough and packs a big punch for such a small piece.

I do, however, question my logic in spending almost 1000$ on a carry pistol. I've been thinking of trading it for a fullsize 1911 for range use and getting a bit of cash towards something like a Kahr .40.

Helstrm
October 25, 2006, 01:52 PM
I carry a full size 1911 everyday. I have no problem concieling in an IWB holster. Took about a week to get use to it.

Socrates
October 25, 2006, 02:34 PM
None of the above.

I had a Kimber Ultra Carry II, sold it. MY gunsmith, who worked at Colt for 9 years, said the design of a 1911 shrunk down, takes the tolerances out of it. You can get them to run, but, they might not when you really need it.

I like 4 inch barrels to get enough velocity out of a 45, and, the snubbies you list are 3 inches.

G36 glocks tempted me, since they have a 3.75" barrel or so, and it works really well, but, they also have a long history of problems, due to taking a full size action, and trying to shrink it.

My Kimber UC II busted the slide stop, and safety, MIM parts. replaced em with Ed Brown forged parts.

The new owner is finding the anodizing on the frame might have been polished, maybe ramped by the first gunsmith that had it, or, worn in by use.

He's looking at putting a steel ramp in, that add's another 150 dollars to an already expensive gun.

the ballistics out of these lil guns don't exactly light me on fire. Bullets tend to have limited penetration, due to lack of velocity, bullet weight, and, bullet expansion. Happens when you take a round designed or a 5", and shrink it to 3".

My ideal gun would be scandium, 4" barrel, maybe stainless frame if I wanted to shoot it, short grip, like the above, or, like the Detonics Combat Master,
and a limited beavertail.

The lighter guns are VERY nice for carry, but, they are still near 30 oz loaded.

With a good holster, I don't see that much advantage to not going with a Commander sized gun, in steel.

Depends on what kind of carry you have to do as well.

Also, do you really want a 1000 bucks sitting in an evidence locker, if you have to pull, brandish, or use your gun?

STI makes the LS 9, and it weighs 28 oz, and is very thin, in 40 S&W and 9mm.

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/ls/images/LSweb_800w.jpg

Considering their quality, the price is VERY reasonable, and, I don't think they use MIM parts.

www.stiguns.com

In 40 S&W it might be a good carry gun, but the barrel is fairly short.

This is my ideal, but it's heavy, and maybe a Scandium frame would help, and kind of expensive:

http://www.detonicsusa.com/servicemaster_compact.html

http://www.detonicsusa.com/firearms/servicemaster_compact_lg.gif

I currently carry a 360PD, since I don't have any choice, in Kali, and, with extended grips, it is shootable with 125 grain hps, at 1210 fps, on a chrono.

S

symr00
October 25, 2006, 04:06 PM
I carry a full size 1911 everyday. I have no problem concieling in an IWB holster. Took about a week to get use to it.

I agree. At these weights, you might as well go with the more reliable Commander or Full-Size 1911's.

Ala Dan
October 25, 2006, 04:38 PM
HeyRobi My Friend-

Have NO fear, as I own many Springfield Armory handguns myself; just
not in the compact format. Lets see, there are the 2X 5" WW-II G.I's, the
5" MIL SPEC, and the 4" service model XD-.45ACP~!:cool: :D

Shipwreck
October 25, 2006, 04:48 PM
The Detonics looks cool - but to do their signature slide cut, U are giving up sight radius on the slide. Only think I do not like.

fastbolt
October 25, 2006, 04:49 PM
There are some pleased owners out there for all of them, I'm sure ... and likely some unhappy owners, as well.

I've seen some variable results for a small number of the 3" Kimbers when they've come through the range. Some functioning issues might be ammunition related, some shooter-related and some lubrication-related.

The last couple of Defenders I can remember come through haven't exhibited any functioning issues.

I haven't handled and fired the shortest of the Springfields, or personally seen anyone shoot one, so I don't have any experience in that respect.

I also agree that most folks seem to benefit from using the larger 1911 platforms when it comes to overall functioning. I think the larger models may be more 'forgiving' of some shooter-related issues than the shorter ones, at the least.

I wouldn't recommend any reduced size 1911 to anyone unless they've personally put in some range time, using different factory-produced defensive ammunition, with the models they're considering.

The last couple of 1911-style pistols I've purchased, with an eye toward carrying upon occasion, have both been 5" models ... one with a stainless frame and the other with a lightweight (Scandium) frame. I own a 3.5" OM which has been modified/tuned, and has shown itself to be as reliable as anyone could likely desire ... but if I were to start carrying any of my 1911 pistols continuously, it would be either my Commander or one of the full-size pistols ... and most likely the full-size Scandium-framed model.;)

If I wanted to carry a little .45, I'd carry my 3.25" CS45. It's very reliable and accurate. Not really something always easily and frequently heard when the subject of diminutive .45 pistols comes up ...

Don't have "The Answer' to your question. Sorry.

Luck to you, though.

Autolycus
October 25, 2006, 05:01 PM
Check out a Sig 245 if you can find one.

Also check out an HK USPc .45

Manedwolf
October 25, 2006, 05:04 PM
Well, if you don't want a 1911 platform specifically, I'd say to look at the Taurus Millenium Pro PT-145 and PT-745, too, in stainless.

They're not $1000 BBQ guns, they just are really well-made and put a bullet where you point them, out of the box, each and every time. No "break in period" needed.

But for some people, if it costs less than $600 and doesn't have an OMG EXPENSIVE NAME on it, it can't be a good gun, so... :rolleyes:

GunNut
October 25, 2006, 05:18 PM
Out of the guns you are looking at, I really like the Colt Defender. I almost picked up a used one this weekend for around $600.

What I would prefer is a 4"+ barrel with a officers frame. IWB a 4" barrel will be more stable and the shorter grip will make it easier to conceal.

Right now, I carry a Glock 30 IWB. 10+1 round of .45ACP is a super compact albeit fat gun.

Steve

Clipper
October 25, 2006, 10:21 PM
Well, I passed up the Defender to go with an Ultra Carry. Nice gun, but I can't bring myself to carry a cocked pistol. Sold it and got the Taurus PT-145...And wouldn't give it up for anything. The best-kept secret in .45ACP. The 'Name gun' guys who wouldn't buy a Taurus anyway can talk all the trash they want, but those of us that have them love 'em.

bcurry
October 25, 2006, 10:29 PM
My vote is for the Springfield Ultra Compact. I have the V10 and love it. Great warranty and customer service should there be an issue.
Bruce

Minator
October 25, 2006, 10:30 PM
Colt.:neener: ........................The Colt has a bigger grip then the others which helps with accuracy and grip comfort which really depends on the size of your hands.

weregunner
October 25, 2006, 11:10 PM
Take a Ruger P97 or 345 and run it through the washer and then put in the dryer for 30 minutes on high without the mag in place:what: :p :scrutiny: This will give you a compact gun of miniature proportions. :banghead: :uhoh: Not really and don't follow my advice on the above. The P95 and 97 aren't real compact but mine have given good service and are more compact then some of their brethren.

rbernie
October 26, 2006, 12:23 AM
Sig 245, for when you want subcompact -and- dead-nuts reliable in a 45ACP chambering... :evil:

Ops Officer
October 26, 2006, 10:02 PM
I gotta' say the SIG P245 as well. Mine is absolutely reliable and scary accurate. If you want more mag capacity, carry P220 spare mags, which fit the P245 just fine.

The_Shootist
October 26, 2006, 10:13 PM
Great gun to carry and extremely accurate - when it works. Its just that mine would jam on 2-3 rounds out of 50 every range session (last bullet in mag wouldn't feed properly). I used Wilson mags, different hollowpoints etc, just couldn't get that gun to run well enough to justify CCW use.

As a concept its great. But you have to have stone cold faith in your CCW piece or whats the point? It ran well enough on ball ammo, but as I recall, even that wasn't perfect. Maybe someday I'll make a greater effort to make it run.

But with a full size 1911 or Glock 19 or hell even my SP 101 I'm not hurting for CCW carry. :D

jac714
October 27, 2006, 12:31 AM
Add my voice to the Kimber, I have an Ultra Carry and carry it when I need maximum concealment.

I have about 600 problem free rounds through it.

All of your choices are good, go to a range nad shoot all of them and find the one that works best for you. All of these should give you years of faithful service.

Good Luck.

BullfrogKen
October 27, 2006, 12:57 AM
As several others have mentioned here, 1911's with slides less than 4" have varying levels of reliability. Some perform fine, some do not. It can depend on the ammo used, the grip and shooting style of the user, and sometimes just plain old luck if you can get it to work all the time.


I'd suggest trying them out before buying one.


A Commander length 1911 is a good size slide length. The part one has a difficult time concealing is not the barrel, but the butt of the gun. The CCO, a Commander length slide on an Officer frame, is a great package, and probably the best overall merging of form and function. Its unfortunate that more models of this design are not available.

Chuck R.
October 27, 2006, 01:44 AM
A Commander length 1911 is a good size slide length. The part one has a difficult time concealing is not the barrel, but the butt of the gun. The CCO, a Commander length slide on an Officer frame, is a great package, and probably the best overall merging of form and function. Its unfortunate that more models of this design are not available.

I came to the same conclusion and this is the route I took. I tried a couple sub-4Ē guns, but didnít like the shootability aspect of the reduced sight radius and light weight.

I finally bought a Baer Stinger, Commander Slide, Officerís frame. At 34 oz empty itís heavier that the compacts by about 9 oz, but due to the extra weight and slide length I shoot it about as well as my 5Ē Baer. Iíve shot the same course with both using a timer and itís about a wash.

Chuck

jlh26oo
October 27, 2006, 01:57 AM
What kind of velocities are you getting out of a 3" barrel with only conventional rifling?

My choice would be a G36. 20 oz, 6 +1, 3 3/4" of polygonal rifling = 230gr >800fps... but I always fall for "too good to be true" packages that have spotty interweb reputations (kahr). No such thing as a free ride.

sjones63
October 27, 2006, 08:37 AM
I had my doubts too,I was planning to get an officer frame and 4 inch barrel but I couln't find one that felt light enough that I wanted to carry all day,every day.none just felt right.Then I picked up a kimber ultra carry and as soon as I did,I said this is the one for me,even with my doubts.I bought it and went straight to the range,well I had several premature slide lockbacks until I had about 50 rounds through it and ten it was fine.I went home and cleaned it real good and polished the ramp,ordered 2 wilson 7 round mags and back to the range yesterday.I fired another 100 wwb,20 win230sxt,20 fereral 165gr personal protection,all without a single bobble.Out to 15 yrds,I just chewed the center out of the 10 ring on a b27 target and putting them in the head was just as easy.I now have me a new carry gun,and one I will be carrying all day,not home in the drawer.I am very satisfied with my new gun and as soon as my new elk antler grips come in I will post pictures if I can figure out how to do it. sj :D

clown714
October 27, 2006, 09:33 AM
Ultra carry.

clown

Manedwolf
October 27, 2006, 10:10 AM
well I had several premature slide lockbacks until I had about 50 rounds through it and ten it was fine.I went home and cleaned it real good and polished the ramp

The question is still, for the price, shouldn't that all be done FOR you? Especially polishing the ramp? Especially when far cheaper guns can be taken out of the box and shot all day without a malfunction?

sjones63
October 27, 2006, 10:22 AM
Manedwolf,You are right about that,for the price we have to pay for guns now,any guns,they all should be fine right out of the box,but most are not.sj

HeyRobi
October 31, 2006, 06:08 AM
Thanks for all the feedback! I went with the Kimber CDM II Ultra Carry the deal is pending but I am making the payment in the morning so it should be finalized tommorow! :D

Mac Attack
October 31, 2006, 06:22 AM
Out of the three you posted I would go with the kimber.

Have you considered a Glock 30? It's a little bigger but packs 10+1 rounds and is a very accurate handgun.

Steve 48
October 31, 2006, 12:56 PM
I also had a lot of concern with the Springfield Ultra Carry because of all the bad posts. I went ahead and bought the Springfield Ultra Carry in the Bi-tone and was pleasantly surprised. I have shot every type of ammo and re-loads and it shoots everything I feed it and well. I have a Don Hume concealment holster for it and you can carry this gun all day and hardly know its there. Its a pricey gun but so is the Kimber and the Defender but I have had good luck with my Springfield's and have stayed with them. Steve 48

Socrates
November 1, 2006, 04:45 AM
Be VERY careful about polishing the feedramp. You can remove the anodized finish from this area, and the result is premature wear, as the rounds go through the gun. There are solutions, but, they cost more money: steel feedramp installed, reanodize the frame, etc.

S

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