Countefeit FN Hi Power


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Stephen A. Camp
October 25, 2006, 10:25 PM
Hello. Below are pictures and a description of a fake FN-marked Hi Power. I have read that these guns were made by FEG and secretly sold to Iraq during one of the embargos as FN pistols and that some got out onto the open market. I am not a historian and have no documentation for that so I'll only say that while the gun does have some of the characteristics of a fixed sight FN Hi Power from the '70's, it does not have all and I am convinced that it was not made by FN. The gun is very poorly fitted and the inside is covered in tool marks. The outside of the gun at one time must have looked pretty nice.

This gun groups very poorly.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/Firearms%201/FEGfakeFNtile1.jpg
It closely resembles a fixed sight FN Hi Power from the '70's. The serial number begins with a "B", which is well away from the five-numeral serial number following. This is located on the front grip strap and on the slide below the ejection port. The numerals are on the barrel, but not the "B". I removed the last three digits from view as this is not my pistol.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/Firearms%201/NewFEGFakeFNmuzzle1.jpg
The front bushing is "extended" like the classic Hi Powers' from about '75 and the front sight is staked on.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/Firearms%201/FEGFakeFNsafetyhammer1.jpg
The grips, spur hammer, and small single-side grip safety closely resemble the FN's.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/Firearms%201/FEGFakeFNrearsight2.jpg
Note that the rear sight notch is U-shaped rather than the rectangular notch common to fixed sighted Hi Powers of this time frame.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/hipowersandhandguns/Firearms%201/FEGFakeFNslidemarkings1.jpg
These markings are on the left side of the slide. I cannot find any proof marks anywhere on the pistol.

Hopefully, these pictures will be use in helping folks from getting "stung" if they consider buying one of these fake FN guns...regardless of who the actual counterfeiter was.

Best.

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Arc-Lite
October 25, 2006, 10:32 PM
who ever did this....has reserved a seat in hell...some things, you just don't mess with !!!!

Ohen Cepel
October 25, 2006, 10:34 PM
Good to know. I love HP's and would hate to buy a copy without knowing it.

Stephen A. Camp
October 25, 2006, 10:49 PM
Hello. That's exactly why this was posted.

Best.

Black Majik
October 25, 2006, 10:52 PM
Great post Mr. Camp.

Just curious how you got into possession of one of these pistols? Pretty interesting..

Stephen A. Camp
October 25, 2006, 10:56 PM
Hello. It belongs to a friend who bought it in another country several years ago.
I don't know much more than that about its history. It was carried much and shot little. The fellow couldn't get it to group, but he's not a pistol shooter. Another friend who is, couldn't get it to group and wanted me to look at it. I took the gun home and finally figured out what the deal was when I FINALLY saw (and the brain comprehended) the "B" in the serial number, a dead give away that it was a fake.

Best.

Marshall
October 25, 2006, 11:30 PM
I have heard of these but never seen one. Thank you very much, now we can spot them. :)

jonnyc
October 26, 2006, 12:14 AM
I'd love to have one of those. Great addition to a HP collection.

10-Ring
October 26, 2006, 12:24 AM
Stephen, you are the man! Thanks for the heads up & for being the ambassador for such a wonderful firearms standard! I've only had my BHP for a couple of years, but it has become a fave!
As far as fakes are concerned...it just seems like there are enough clones are out there w/ enough respect in the industry that fakes just seem like a desperate act by some pitiful low life :cuss:

Stephen A. Camp
October 26, 2006, 12:25 AM
Hello and thank you very much.

Best.

10-Ring
October 26, 2006, 12:33 AM
Stephen - just a question about these fakes. As a base for mods...is the steel any good? Would you consider one for mods? Is there any legitimate reason to purchase/ own one? :scrutiny:

Stephen A. Camp
October 26, 2006, 12:42 AM
Hello. I do not know about the quality of the steel or its heat treatment. IF FEG made these, they are well below typical FEG quality.

I wouldn't trust one of these counterfeit guns for a base gun.

Best.

Johnny Guest
October 26, 2006, 12:52 AM
Steve, just as a matter of curiosity, did you have a chance to fire this particular pistol during your evaluation? I'd be curious to know if YOU could get it to group. I've seen you shoot, Hi Powers and other handguns, and I'd imagine you could shot it if anyone could.

Any observations about the magazine that came with the pistol?

Best
Johnny

Stephen A. Camp
October 26, 2006, 12:58 AM
Hello, Johnny. I did not fire it on this latest "encounter" but had several months earlier. It won't group a tall. I didn't think anymore about it because the fellow was reportedly going to get a new Hi Power, but neither did I notice that it was a fake...at that time. I don't remember anything about the magazine from that time and when it was given to me to look over, it was without the magazine.

Best.

Gordon
October 26, 2006, 01:05 AM
Personally I think it is very unlikely FEG made it. Every FEG weapon I have seen since WW2 is pretty well put together, even IN WW2 for that matter!. Certainly the slide to frame fit is good on all FEG clones I've seen .

Kestrel
October 26, 2006, 02:30 AM
Stephen,

I appreciate the info. Might save some of us grief, if we were to run across one.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
October 26, 2006, 03:23 AM
Greetings, Mr. Camp;

Were these supposedly produced in a quantity that would rule out manufacture in the Pashtun/Pakistan areas by small shops? I've seen some of the 'replica/faked' arms made there - AK's, Enfields, etc. The lack of proofs might be a clue, but then, a 'sterile' arm might not have them anyway.

Regards,
Rabbit.

BHPshooter
October 26, 2006, 03:23 AM
Personally I think it is very unlikely FEG made it. Every FEG weapon I have seen since WW2 is pretty well put together, even IN WW2 for that matter!. Certainly the slide to frame fit is good on all FEG clones I've seen .

I would have to disagree... I think it's almost certainly an FEG. The serial # is a dead giveaway, as is the location at the barrel/slide. And the FEG that I owned, as well as the one that we've got in the shop, aren't put together very well. The fit is a little iffy in spots and there are tool marks all over the inside and in inconspicuous places on the exterior. Personally, I've learned to steer clear of the FEGs. If I want a clone, I'm going straight for an FM-Argentine.

On top of all of that, FN (unless under Nazi occupation ;) ) wouldn't let a gun get out of the factory with such sloppy fit and internal finish. We've got a couple of similar-era Brownings in the shop that are much better fit than the imposter in question.

who ever did this....has reserved a seat in hell...some things, you just don't mess with !!!!

Amen, brutha!

Mr. Camp, thanks for posting! Good to know that we need to watch out!

Wes

Dr.Rob
October 26, 2006, 04:18 AM
One of my FEG's has a B prefix on the slide but not the barrel... I'd have to take the grips off to check the frame. Th sights on both mine are U notched, though deeper, and the front sight is different.

Maybe FEG parts sent to Iraq? And assembled there?

FEG supposedly built Mauser marked HP's the SA-80. I'm pretty sure Iraq used the BHP as its main sidearm, and did a lot of trade with eastern bloc nations. According to Shotgun News many of their arms, while looking Soviet, were built 'in country' like their version of the Dragunov.

My first FEG had some rough tooling inside but the frame/slide fit was better... then again mine hasn't been subjected to sandstorms. And mine shoots great.

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