About the .38 Super

[FortyFive70]

Anyone shoot this caliber anymore?

I used to own a Springfield Armory 1911 and Colt Commander in .38 Super, but sold them both years ago. I'm left with a large quantity of .38 Super ammunition.

Does anyone even make a gun in the caliber anymore? It never was a really popular round, but I liked it and would like to get a good quality gun in the caliber.

By the way, I've noticed that the .38 Super round, being semi-rimmed, will chamber nicely in my .357 magnum Ruger GP100. I've never tried to fire it, and I know the .355 inch diameter bullet would probably produce lousy accuracy in a gun intended to fire .357 inch diameter bullets. Nevertheless, is it possible to safely fire the .38 Super round in a .357 magnum? Anyone ever done it?

Thanks.

[SaxonPig]

You can shoot Supers in a .357 revolver. It's been done.

I like the caliber and own a couple of Supers. My carry load is a 115 JHP at around 1400 FPS. Works fine in my guns. I have gone as high as 1525 but got serious pressure signs and backed off.

Here's one of my Supers. A Colt Series '70. I like ivory and have it on all of my 1911s.

http://www.fototime.com/8E60DBB105F66D4/standard.jpg

[Redneck with a 40]

Taurus has a pistol chambered for 38 super as well. Personally, I believe the 38 super is an excellent round, too bad it never gained popularity, the 10mm is in the same boat, breathing its last breath. I wonder why the 357 sig was created when the 38 super was already out there and it has very similair ballistics to the 357 sig.

[FortyFive70]

Since I posted this, I've been perusing Colt's, Kimber's and Springfield Armory's sites. All have guns chambered in the round, and Colt actually has a suprising number of new 1911's chambered for the .38 Super. I looked at Taurus and they have some DA guns in .38 Super. Frankly, it looks like more guns are available now in the caliber than there were when I bought mine. I'm wodnering if there migh be some resurrgence of the caliber?

I particularly like the Kimber target model with adjustable sights. I've never owned a Kimber, but they look like impressive guns.

[eerw]

also look at STI and SV..both make guns for 38 super..
and no problem finding a gunsmith to build a nice custom either...

[FortyFive70]

Thanks, I hadn't thought about SV or SVI.

[smack2223]

Sig makes p-220 in 38 Super.

[Falconeer]

Sig makes p-220 in 38 Super.
Once upon a time they did, but they don't currently.

Here's (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=59120224) a link to a used P220 in 38 Super on Gunbroker.

[timn]

For a while I was hot for a 38 super on a 1911 frame. There is very little not to like about this round. But, at a gunshow, a smith that had several told me that reloading was generally a bad idea on this round. According to him, the pressures were just too hard on the brass. It didn't make a lot of sense to me since the brass is supported by the chamber. I have since put my Super lust on hold.
Do those of you that shoot this caliber reload? Any bugaboos about reloading?

[dragongoddess]

I know IPSC shooters use the round. I was told that the reason is the 38 suoer moves the slide faster than a 45. In other words they can fire more rounds in less time then they can with a 45.

[owen]

Goddess,

There is a bit more to it than that.

First, the .38 super is a smaller diameter cartridge. that mean that a big double stack magazine will hold 5 or 6 more rounds than a .45. Currently I belive the big sticks hold 23 or 26 rounds. (I'm not an open gun shooter, so I'm not sure)

Second, .38 Super is amenable to being loaded with slow powders, which have a lot of volume, and make a lot of gas. In addition the slow powders push the peak pressure out towards the muzzle, where the compensator is located. Large volumes of high velocity, high pressure gas are important for working the compensator. With .38 super the case is almost filled with either a very slow pistol powder or a fast rifle powder. In contrast, a .45 case is nearly empty with a very fast powder.

Third, the bullets are fast. This means they shoot very flat. In other words, the aiming point doesn't change for 5 yard head shots or 50 yard head shots. Kinda useful when a stage can include both.

[Cowboybootnut]

EAA also mades a DA .38 Super.

I have reloaded the .38 Super for the Colt and Auto Ordinance 1911 models for years and never had cases to go bad after reloading 4-5 times. Of course, I don't go for the super high pressure loads, just enough to function and be accurate. I have never heard or read of any problems reloading the .38 Super, as long as you use normal caution, as you should with any cartridge. If there is something in the literature, or experience, I hope someone would share it.

I love the cartridge and would like to buy a Taurus or EAA in that caliber in the near future.

[Cocked & Locked]

I've got two .38 Super 1911's, both by Rock Island Armory. I hand load both jacketed and cast lead bullets for both.

RIA parkerized...
http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL523/3082611/9381895/196893517.jpg


RIA factory hard chrome
http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL523/3082611/9381895/193409822.jpg

[bowfin]

Para Ordnance also makes a couple of different models, and High Standard makes an AMT model in .38 Super. I believe Taurus make two different models, a 1911 clone and another model whose exact designation escapes me.

I have found that the .38 Super is offered in a somewhat startling amount of makes and models by a lot of different manufacturers.

[atblis]

9x23 Winchester. I lump it together with 38SA even though it is slightly different.

You get much thicker brass.

115 at 1500 FPS. What's not to like?

[SaxonPig]

PS- Note that factory fodder for the Super has been down-loaded in recent years. I used to clock 1250+ FPS from Winchester 130 FMJ 15 years ago but more recently I am getting 1090 from the same ammo. Due to the old .38 ACP guns still out there and lawyers worried about lawsuits. The Super wouldn't interest me much if I couldn't reload.

[browningguy]

EAA makes the Elite Match in 38 Super also.

[BullfrogKen]

FortyFive70 said: Nevertheless, is it possible to safely fire the .38 Super round in a .357 magnum? Anyone ever done it?

I have done it. I can't attest to its safety, but I'm still here, and so is the model 66. Note that Ruger has a Blackhawk convertible allowing you to shoot .357's and 9mm's through it by simply changing the cylinder.

timn said: But, at a gunshow, a smith that had several told me that reloading was generally a bad idea on this round. According to him, the pressures were just too hard on the brass. . . . Do those of you that shoot this caliber reload? Any bugaboos about reloading?

I reload it. Thousands of competitors reload it each year and push it to the edge to make sure it makes major. Occasionally one has a problem, but if you're not loading it to peak pressure, you won't have a problem. Its fine.

The 38 Super recoils a lot less than the .45 ACP, so follow shots come quicker. And, its cheaper in components to shoot, which can make a difference to those who shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year.

I've had my 9x23 Commander fitted with a spare 9mm barrel. I can practice with 9mm's very cheaply, or reloaded 38 Supers, and carry the more powerful 38 Super or 9x23. I'm not the only one to do it. I know of half a dozen others that do the same in my circle of friends.


Its a great round. Colt still offers a 38 Super lightweight Commander. I love mine.

[Cocked & Locked]

The .38 Super cartridge has an interesting history and rates high in the "cool factor"...especially in a 1911 style gun...at least to me!.

I'm a 1911 fan, obvious by my forum name I suppose, and like'em in all calibers. But, there's something special about a .38 Super 1911.

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL523/3082611/9381895/145674100.jpg

I agree with Saxon Pig...handloading this caliber is a great thing.

[FortyFive70]

Wow, thanks for all the information. I knew the .38 Super was "cool," too.

I don't hand load. I have about 10 boxes of UMC FMJ rounds. I have a couple of boxes of Winchester Silvertip Hollowpoints. I think that justifies a new gun ;)

I hate to admit it, but I really like the Springfield Armory highly polished 1911 milspec gun. It's pimped out with pearly handle grips.

BTW, I never owned a nickel plated gun. Is it a durable finish??

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/PB9114LLarge.jpg

[stealthgoat]

I love the Supers.
The new Colts are very nice. This is the older enhanced version, mine handles 38 Super or 9x23mm with just a spring change.

[FortyFive70]

The enhanced version, in Commander length, was exactly what I had. I had put a Videki trigger on it, Wolf Springs, cocobolo grips, and a Bar Sto barrel. I'm kicking myself for ever selling it.

[Standing Wolf]

BTW, I never owned a nickel plated gun. Is it a durable finish??

Nickel is a more durable finish than blued steel, but tends to need a bit of pampering. Cleaning solvents with ammonia, for example, are out of the question: any least imperfection in the nickel plating will allow the ammonia to attack the underlying copper. In very short order, both the copper and nickel will flake off.

Having answered a question, I'd like to ask one, if I might.

Are the .38 super and 9 x 23 cartridges interchangeable?

[cbsbyte]

S&W Performance center makes a .38 Super 1911.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14811&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

[BullfrogKen]

Standing Wolf said: Are the .38 super and 9 x 23 cartridges interchangeable?

Short answer - sometimes.


The 9x23 operates at much higher pressures, but it has a much stronger case. Some have found they can fire a 9x23 in a gun set up for 38 Super. The rounds are so similar in dimension that most chambers will accept it with no difficulty. The concern is the strength of the gun and the chamber.

Mine was set up by my smith with the intention of firing the 9x23, but also take the 38 Super for practice. I'd take the time and expense to have someone knowledgable look at what you have and make that decision. But, many with 38 Supers have simply bought a box of 9x23's and ran them through it. It can be done, but it might not be especially prudent.

[stealthgoat]

BullfrogKenBut, many with 38 Supers have simply bought a box of 9x23's and ran them through it. It can be done, but it might not be especially prudent.
I agree 100%. However in my very limited experience it seems like the Colt enhanced 38S chambers are generous, as are Barsto, and mine work with either using just a spring swap. I also have a Colt enhanced 9x23mm factory barrel that feeds 38S perfectly. Winchester brass is supposed to be much stronger.

FortyFive70 The enhanced version, in Commander length, was exactly what I had. I had put a Videki trigger on it, Wolf Springs, cocobolo grips, and a Bar Sto barrel. I'm kicking myself for ever selling it.
Was that LW or steel combat commander? I wish you sold it to me! I have been looking for a flattop 38S commander for a couple years now, can't seem to find one, I wasn't sure if they were even ever made.

[BullfrogKen]

stealthgoat said: Was that LW or steel combat commander? I wish you sold it to me! I have been looking for a flattop 38S commander for a couple years now, can't seem to find one, I wasn't sure if they were even ever made.

I noticed your thread in the for sale forum, looking for one. Have you tried GunsAmerica? There are many listed there, varying degrees of pricing, quality, and versions.

What did you want? A LW alloy frame, or steel?

[TonyT]

S&W currently chambers their 1911 in 38 Super, as does Springfield Armory. S&W also chambered an 8 shot 627 and a 6 shot 686 in 38 Super.

[FortyFive70]

Was that LW or steel combat commander? I wish you sold it to me! I have been looking for a flattop 38S commander for a couple years now, can't seem to find one, I wasn't sure if they were even ever made.


Steel.

[Cowboybootnut]

My .38 Supers, Colt Series 80 on left Auto Ordinance on right.

[MatthewVanitas]

Not drifting the thread, just tossing in a closely-related question: what's the cost per round for .38 Super for us non-reloaders?

This question (.38S ammo costs) hasn't had its own thread since 2003. My vague impression is that (in bulk) it's pricier than 9mm but cheaper than .45

EDIT: Ooh, Metalform makes Officer-length .38 Super mags! I could get a CCO-size .38 Super...

-MV

[soutex50]

Good Luck, I've been trying to find a 38 super in officer's length for years now......nothing. even requested some manufacturer to make a barrel to no avail. But let me know if you find one.

[willbrink]

"S&W Performance center makes a .38 Super 1911. "

I own two SnW 1911's (and I found them to be great guns for the $$$) , but $2300 + for their .38 super? :eek: I had a full house custom Ti Caspian 1911 built for less then that. :scrutiny:

[Cocked & Locked]

My .38 Supers, Colt Series 80 on left Auto Ordinance on right.

How is the AO .38 Super...quality and function OK? Does it have a ramped barrel? Is it a Kahr or a pre-Kahr?

Sorry to be so nOsEy! :scrutiny:

[MatthewVanitas]

Good Luck, I've been trying to find a 38 super in officer's length for years now......nothing. even requested some manufacturer to make a barrel to no avail. But let me know if you find one.

Actually, I was thinking CCO-sized: Commander slide with Officers grip. Concealability of a Officers, but with sight-radius of a Commander. Since more barrel is easier to hide than more grip, this seems a good balance.

Caspian makes .38 Commander slides and Officer frames, Metalform makes .38 Super Officer magazines, and Barsto makes .38 Super Commander barrels. All premium parts, now get a guy to assemble them for you and you're golden. Those parts total about $600, then add in the cost of all the springs-n-pins, and a gunsmith to put them together.

Pricier than if you could buy a stock .38 Super CCO, but at least you're getting deluxe, and not really any more expensive than a custom .45 would be.

-MV

[Cowboybootnut]

Cocked & Locked,

It is an older one that I bought in the mid-1980s. It had a ramped barrel, that I had smoothed out. It always functioned pretty good, but I had a lighter combat trigger and extended safety put on later.

Quality wise---it ain't a Colt of that time, but then, it was about 1/2 the cost too. I think you could say that for a lot of the 1911 clones of those days, it wasn't a Colt, but if you had a couple hundred $$ work done on it, it came close.