(AK) Officer shoots himself in foot ( w/ shotgun)


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Drizzt
May 17, 2003, 08:53 PM
Officer shoots himself in foot

An Anchorage police officer was hospitalized this morning after he accidentally shot himself in the foot.

It happened around 9:30 in a Turnagain neighborhood near Earthquake Park. Police were in pursuit of a man wanted by U.S. Marshals.

The officer had pulled out his shotgun to assist in the pursuit when he accidentally shot himself in the left foot. Officer Paul Morino is recovering tonight at Providence Hospital.

Anchorage Police were called in this morning to help U.S. Marshals track down a probation violator.

Police say marshals found the 31-year-old suspect, Shelby Ward, at a home on Carleton Avenue. They also found cocaine.

Police say one of the marshals got into a physical struggle with Ward at the home. Ward managed to flee the scene.

APD was called in to help. When Officer Morino arrived, he parked his cruiser near Woronzof Drive. He grabbed his shotgun and that's when it accidentally went off hitting him in the foot.

He is a member of a task force, a DEA task force at the police department. He's been with the department for 18 years. He's a veteran, one of our more senior officers. He's been doing it for a long time and he's quite good at it, said Ron McGee, APD.

Authorities did arrest Ward this morning. He was found hiding in a ditch on Kissee Court.

Police say Ward is on probation for three convictions dating back to 1994 primarily on drug related charges.

Police say Morino was alert and awake hours after the shooting. Providence Hospital says Officer Morino requested that his condition not be released.

Its standard procedure for APD to investigate anytime an officer discharges a weapon. Police are looking into whether Morino's shotgun accidentally discharged or he had his finger on the trigger.

http://www.ktva.com/Stories/0,1413,163%257E6884%257E1394176,00.html

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tyme
May 17, 2003, 09:23 PM
Confucious say:
Enforce drug laws and your foot may be shot.

Feanaro
May 18, 2003, 12:55 AM
Don't you feel safe knowing this man is watching your street?

MicroBalrog
May 18, 2003, 03:34 AM
Obviously these are the people who should have a monopoly on firearms. Don't you see how skilled they are?

Wildalaska
May 18, 2003, 04:10 AM
Hes a fine Officer, accidents happen and the rude comments about it are disgusting.

And I am proud knowing he is out there putting himself on the line for us. Which is more than can be said for others.

:fire:

Andrew Wyatt
May 18, 2003, 04:42 AM
Hes a fine Officer


this may sound callous, but shooting yourself in the foot with a long arm is not the way to show you're a fine officer.

unless there was an actual problem with the firearm, there is no excuse for having an ND. (and even a broken gun is not a good excuse).

Feanaro
May 18, 2003, 04:48 AM
I'm with Wyatt. I'm sure he tries very hard and there are few callings more noble than to put your life on your line for the public. But I know idiots that border on mentally defective in my local police department that manage not to shoot themselves at ranges, practice, routine chases and such. "Accidents happen" doesn't cut it when it comes to weapons, especially one as deadly as a shotgun. What if he had been a little higher and maybe, say, over to the left. He might have taken someones leg off. Accidents happen, yes. But he's not only a veteran but he's supposed to be "very good".

I hope he gets well soon. And practices a little more safety, such as keeping your finger off the trigger.

duckfoot
May 18, 2003, 05:44 AM
You may do a lifetime of good deeds, but be remembered for one mistake!

Jim March
May 18, 2003, 05:46 AM
Every cop needs to spend enough time at the range that he can't even *imagine* not tracking muzzle direction 100% of the time they've got a gun in their hands.

Muzzle direction is in my opinion even more critical than the finger on trigger issue, although both are of course important.

280PLUS
May 18, 2003, 07:28 AM
i'm with jim on this one.

muzzle direction, always...

thats the first thing that should be taught,

just before finger off the trigger

if i'm not mistaken, however, back n the old west etc when everybody was totin', more people died from negligibles than actual gun fights.

m

hope he recovers ok:(

Feanaro
May 18, 2003, 07:34 AM
I should have mentioned muzzle control. I guess that's too instinctive for me. Even as a kid I was always thinking about where I pointed the gun. Finger off the trigger still gets to me though. I find my finger going for that trigger, like steel to a magnet.

coonan357
May 18, 2003, 09:53 AM
got to love this quote :He's a veteran, one of our more senior officers. He's been doing it for a long time and he's quite good at it, said Ron McGee, APD.

I am suprised he has any feet left at all .:rolleyes: :D

TarpleyG
May 18, 2003, 11:14 AM
It happened around 9:30 in a Turnagain neighborhood near Earthquake Park.
Never mind about the officer, who in their right minds would live in or around a place called Earthquake Park?:what: Get out of there people! There's probably a reason why it's called that.

GT

Keith
May 18, 2003, 12:25 PM
People who handle firearms with their finger on the trigger are going to have an ND sooner or later. Better his foot than some innocent bystander.

winstonsmith
May 18, 2003, 12:28 PM
I agree with keith. But better he get some real firearm safety training then hurt ANYONE, even himself.

I hope he recovers fast.

MicroBalrog
May 18, 2003, 12:36 PM
Which is more than can be said for others

Wildalaska, do you mean me? FYI I am to begin my term of service in the Israeli Defense Force soon (17th of August). No, that is not going to be frontline service, but still...:fire: :fire: :fire:

Erik
May 18, 2003, 01:14 PM
Hope he heals up soon and without any carrer-ending or long-term side effects.

Just like I would for anyone else who wounded themselves in a shooting incident, LEO or not.

---

Some of you seem to have let your politics interfere with the good-naturedness typically so evident in the shooting community. That's a shame.

Matt G
May 18, 2003, 01:15 PM
I'm seeing very little that is constructive, here.

Folks, I'm not seeing most of y'all addressing the real issue: Firearms safety.

The Four Rules apply always. I think the reason that Drizzt posts stuff like this is to draw your attention to the fact that These Things Do Happen if you don't maintain constant vigilance.

This is NOT about stupid cops, the War On Drugs, or even the merits of a pump SG vs. a SA SG vs. a sidearm vs. an MP5 vs. a Star Trek phaser.

SAFETY. (http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html)

justice4all
May 18, 2003, 01:17 PM
Considering how the police are so often the innocent victims of the war on drugs, it amazes me that so many of them are so supportive of it. But I guess getting to play Rambo with the latest military hardware makes it all worthwhile.

Keith
May 18, 2003, 01:46 PM
If I shot myself in the foot in a public place due to unsafe handling of my firearm, the incident would result in the immediate termination of my CCW. And rightfully so, because it's clear evidence that I am a threat to public safety!

Why was his finger on the trigger? Why was the gun pointed at his own anatomy? Shotguns have safeties, why was his "off"?

But mostly; Why are cops always held to a lower standard than the general public in shooting incidents of any kind?

It's one thing to have an AD/ND in a time and place where you are obeying all the other rules - you're checking the cycling or practicing a clearance drill with the firearm pointed in a safe direction, etc.

It's quite another to have an ND in a quiet neighborhood in broad daylight. And yeah, 9;30 is broad daylight in Alaska and the kids are running around everywhere playing, people are mowing their lawns, etc.

Wildalaska
May 18, 2003, 02:54 PM
Why was his finger on the trigger? Why was the gun pointed at his own anatomy? Shotguns have safeties, why was his "off"?

We do not know what happened from the article do we? Nor do we know what disciplinary action will be taken yet.

WildnorushtojudgementAlaska

Keith
May 18, 2003, 03:23 PM
We both know what happened. Guns don't just "go off" unless you press the trigger. And they don't shoot you in the foot unless you aim them at your foot.

That's two of the four cardinal rules of gun safety broken right there.

I'll even excuse him having the safety off, since we don't know the exact situation - maybe he was expecting an armed perp to leap from behind the nearest rhododendron bush at any moment.

My issue is that police agencies don't hold police to the same standards as they do the general public. This guy will get some little reprimand and remain on the public payroll, carrying a gun.

If it was me or you we'd lose our CCW at a minimum and perhaps face criminal or civil charges for negligence, endangerment, etc.

I'm not a cop basher - really! I like and respect cops. I just firmly believe that all citizens should be held to the same standards. If I said that rich people or white people should be given a "pass" over poor people or black people, you'd (rightfully) characterize me as a bigot.
Yet, when I argue that cops should be held to the same standards as the rest of us, I always have a number of people argue to the contrary...

I don't get it?

Keith

Jim March
May 18, 2003, 04:36 PM
Correct, we don't know why the gun went boom. Might be a finger issue, might be a loose sear, God only knows.

But we damnsure know the muzzle's direction. :scrutiny: With a great deal of certainty.

:rolleyes:

Arkady
May 18, 2003, 06:27 PM
Police are looking into whether Morino's shotgun accidentally discharged or he had his finger on the trigger.

Personally, i'm pleasently surprised to see someone drawing a distinction, here.

4v50 Gary
May 18, 2003, 06:44 PM
What Jim March says. We know not why the discharge but we do know there was little in the way of muzzle control.

El Rojo
May 18, 2003, 07:52 PM
Nothing changes around here. It is like a school of sharks. As soon as they smell blood, they start circling and getting into a frenzie.

The guy accidently shot himself in the foot. Why is everyone so happy or at least give off the impression that they derive some sort of sick satisfaction from this? How many of you have had an accidental or negligent discharge? I doubt it has ever happened to those so vocal on this thread. It has happened to me. I learned from it. One of the first thing I stopped doing after that was assuming that anyone who had a negligent discharge is a complete idiot and it only happens to idiots. Everyone makes mistakes. Allow people to learn from them and move on.

Then we have all the hub-bub about how a CCW holder would lose their license and probably be prosecuted. Anyone making such a claim care to provide some evidence to this generalization? I would accept some news articles of cases of CCW holders having a negligent discharge and then being prosecuted. Or is that just what so many of the paranoid, anti-cop type just figure will happen to them? Again, lets quit the liberal minded approach of discussion of jumping to conclusions and basing your thought process on emotion and what ifs. Someone give some facts on the number of prosecutions and CCW confiscations due to negligent discharges. Thank you.

I seriously tire of the negative attitude towards law enforcement on this board. Sure take the "I want all rules applied evenly" cop-out. You guys are so upset about losing your rights, that you are willing to give legitimacy to our loss of rights by justifying such rediculous laws and situations when you say cops should be prosecuted for the same things you wouldn't want to be prosecuted for yourself. It is simply a childish game of "if I can't have my way, nobody should have their way either." I just don't understand why instead of getting all torn up about this cop shooting himself and demanding he be prosecuted and thrown in the slammer, you handle it the same way as if it might have happened to you. Your pride would be hurt, you would have to suffer redicule from your peers, but you would be a heck of a lot safer in the future. Instead, people use their anti-cop bias to air their own little hate agenda.

Seriously, these responses are so typical and so tiresome from this discussion board. They disgust me.

zahc
May 18, 2003, 08:01 PM
"accidentally went off"

Got another self-firer here.

Powderman
May 18, 2003, 09:31 PM
And I am proud knowing he is out there putting himself on the line for us. Which is more than can be said for others.

Thank you.

redneck
May 18, 2003, 09:33 PM
No excuse for not following the 4 rules, but I'd say shooting yourself in the foot with a 12 gauge is punishment enough in this case! If it was pointed at his foot he obviously was practicing somewhat safe control of the muzzle. You guys act like he had it pointed at a school bus!
As far as finger on the trigger, you don't know how it went off so there's nothing to say about it.

Wildalaska
May 18, 2003, 10:24 PM
Bravo El Rojo!

Keith, Ive never heard of anyone losing a CCW in Alaska becasue of an AD..

I also note that one does not have to have his finger on the tirgger for a gun to go bang. Ask anyone that owns or works on Remington rifles.

And I personally know of this cop, hes a great guy.

WildnuffsaidAlaska

Blain
May 18, 2003, 11:14 PM
"And I am proud knowing he is out there putting himself on the line for us. Which is more than can be said for others"


Ywah, I'm proud knowing that there are people out there that feel fine ruining other peoples lives for victumless crimes. I consider that the most evil of all evils. How would they like being attacked and imprissoned for enjoying a beer or a smoke? What difference should it make to them what other people do as long as they don't bother them? Oh, I forgot! "It's the law"!!!

Albert Eichman!

redneck
May 19, 2003, 12:02 AM
I've seen more than one person that was a victim of drug trade. Just because you don't have someone standing there screamin help, or being traced on the ground with chalk doesn't mean there isn't a victim.
But this is a gun board and thats a totally different argument.

Sunray
May 19, 2003, 01:28 AM
Cops are without a doubt the most incompetent users of firearms of any kind. Up here, most of 'em, certainly not all but most, see their service piece as just another heavy piece of equipment they're told they have to carry. Most have never seen a firearm before they get the job and don't care if they know how to use it or not. Their training is minimal and unless they have to they don't ever fire their service piece. They're required to qualify twice a year. It was 12 when they had revolvers. I'm guessing two mags now, but I'm not sure. Mind you, it wouldn't surprise me if it was still only 12 rounds.
I know a guy who was a cop in Toronto, years ago. He and his partner got assigned to the "bank car" one day. It was the only car with a pump shotgun. Neither of them could even load it. In two separate incidences, plain clothes cops came into the gun store I worked in long ago looking to change grips. One guy's revolver was rusted shut. In the other case, one guy reached for his gun and didn't have it. Holster but no gun. His partner went nuts. Rolled into the club I used to shoot in one night and there was a Glock with ammo and mags sitting at one of the positions. We call the locals and they sent a guy to collect it. Turned out it belonged to some cop who had been shooting in the afternoon. He had left and just left it there. I've even seen a cop directing traffic with a very obviously empty holster. Told two other cops about it about 5 minutes later and they didn't seem the least bit concerned.
The worst ones are the SWAT types. They're forever having accidents where other cops have been killed due to negligence. They caused the only public range near TO to be closed, as well. They were training with SMG's one day, fired over the back stop and at least one round landed next to a guy doing his roof far behind the range. They ignored range rules at CFB Borden. Left ALL their brass behind for the next user to pick up. I just happened to be the next RSO on that range. Sad thing was the primers were lacquered in or otherwise impossible to get out. There were thousands of good 9mm brass.
And the anti's and our government think only the military and cops should have guns. Cops get really upset when I tell them to serve me, I'll protect myself too.

Dave Williams
May 19, 2003, 03:43 AM
It's a huge generalization to say that all cops are unknowledgeable or unsafe or unskilled with/about guns. Many are however. I'm not, and I'm lucky to work with a group of fine, motivated officers that like to train(a small % of the dept). Most of these guys would finish easily at the top of a local type IDPA shoot

I don't disagree with some other points. The notion that police protect people is preposterous. You gotta protect yourself in this world. Duh!

And for the record, Anchorage PD has an outstanding firearms training program. I wish my department had such a good program. Accidents happen people, if you think it can't happen to you, you are wrong. I hope the officer involved makes a full recovery.

Dave

280PLUS
May 19, 2003, 09:33 AM
is that we're all human, LEO or not...

and (knocking on my wooden head)

in the 34 years i've been handling firearms i've never had a nd

that doesn't mean i'm immune

and neither are you

m

Keith
May 19, 2003, 12:04 PM
I've been asked to back up my statement that an ordinary citizen would lose his CCW permit and face criminal charges had the incident happened to them.
This link: http://www.dps.state.ak.us/ast/achp/IMAGES/achplaw.pdf

takes you to the Alaska statutes, and if you scroll to the bottom you'll find all of the "Misconduct Involving Weapons" statutes which will get your CCW jerked. Of course, these are what they hold citizens to, police don't have to maintain the high standards of an ordinary armed citizen.

Keith

Erik
May 20, 2003, 06:35 PM
And have they actually prosecuted someone for a ND under said statute?

---

"Oh, I forgot! "It's the law"!!!"

You also seem to have forgoten that lew enforcers are expected to enforce the law. (It seems simple because it is.)

I know, I know. They shouldn't. At least not the ones some folks don't like, in this case some gun owners. But.... Then which laws would be enforced? After all, someone always disapproves of the law, especially those who break them.

---

By the way, angry folks should contact their legislators. You know, the ones who make the laws.

LiquidTension
May 20, 2003, 06:56 PM
Considering that the guy was a member of a DEA task force, I don't feel the slightest bit of pity for him. The DEA is one of the most horrible government agencies to plague our country, and the fact that he is voluntarily employed by them makes me feel like karma is responsible for this "accident."

I will not apologize for this, not even to any board members that are employed by the DEA. It is an evil gestapo-like organization that should be destroyed.

I may sound a little harsh, but I am incapable of empathizing with those who wish to rob good people of their freedom.

Wildalaska
May 20, 2003, 07:04 PM
I will not apologize for this, not even to any board members that are employed by the DEA. It is an evil gestapo-like organization that should be destroyed.

Just the type of attitude us law abiding gun owners need! Goes real well on this Board. Support your local illegal dope dealer....

:barf: :barf:

WildjustsaynoAlaska

Wildalaska
May 20, 2003, 07:08 PM
Keith with all due respect an AD is not covered by the misconduct stautes.....

12-34hom
May 20, 2003, 07:13 PM
El Rojo, my thoughts exactly...

Mike Irwin are you reading this... :neener:

12-34hom.

spacemanspiff
May 20, 2003, 07:14 PM
yeah, its all the DEA's fault, they are to blame for the overinflated cost of illegal narcotics, and its their fault people become addicted to substances and its their fault families suffer because addicts care more about getting their fix than providing for their loved ones.

liquidtension, do you dance on the graves of DEA officers that are killed in the line of duty? sounds to me like you do. thats sad.

Mike Irwin
May 20, 2003, 11:03 PM
Yes, I'm reading the thread.


The guy violated Irwin's Prime Rule -- Don't be a frigging moron.

I've got something the rest of you don't have...

A picture, supposedly of the aftermath...

Very little apparent blood.

John G
May 20, 2003, 11:12 PM
Thank God he only shot himself.

LiquidTension
May 20, 2003, 11:25 PM
I knew that you guys would react like this to my comments :rolleyes:

I do NOT rejoice when anyone is killed. I just do not feel pity when bad things happen to people that do bad things to other people. Yes, the DEA IS responsible (in part) for the overinflated cost of illegal narcotics. How much do you think a bag of weed would cost if you could just go out into your back yard and pick what you wanted? Yeah.

Many drugs should be illegal. I have no problem with busting crack dealers and the like, but the DEA spends FAR too much time and money going after marijuana offenders. Marijuana is not a drug, it is a hobbie. I know many respected members of the community (including law enforcement officers) that smoke. They are not bad people, but the DEA would put them in jail just the same as someone that sells crack to kids.

Wildalaska and spacemanspiff - I find it funny that you jump to conclusions and assume that I support illegal drug dealers and gain pleasure from the death federal agents. The fact that you put words in my mouth is, to quote spacemanspiff, sad. Nothing I said supports the conclusions that you two came to. All I said was that the DEA is bad, which MANY people will agree with me on, and that I do not feel bad when bad things happen to bad people. Would I care if a meth cooker blew himself up in his lab? Nope. Would I care if a crack dealer ODed? Nope. Would I care if a federal agent that works to enforce awful laws got injured while on the job? Nope. I do not wish for anyone to be hurt or killed, I'm just not gonna get upset when it happens.

Karma can be a b*tch.

El Rojo
May 21, 2003, 01:54 AM
KeithThank you for that link. I didn't find much to support your the claim that a law abiding citizen would lose their permit for having a negligent discharge in public. Here is what I did find (any reason why you weren't more specific and I had to do all the research?).

AS 18.65.705 Qualifications to obtain a permit [Page 6]
(4) Has not been convicted of two or more class A misdemeanors of this state or [of another state withing six years].

AS 18.65.735 Suspension of Permit [Page 8]
(a) [If the person becomes ineligible under AS 18.65.705]

AS 11.61.195 Misconduct involving weapons in the second degree [Page 22]
(3) discharges a firearm at or in the direction of a
(a) a building with reckless disregard for a risk of physical injury to a person; or
(b) a dwelling.
(B) Misconduct involving weapons in the second degree is a class B felony.

AS 11.61.210 Misconduct involving weapons in the fourth degree [Page 25]
(2) discharges a firearm from, on, or across a highway;
(3) discharges a firearm with reckless disregard for a risk of physical injury to a person under circumstances other than those described in AS 11.61.195 (a)(3)(a).
(D) Misconduct involving weapons in the fourth degree is a class A Misdemeanor.

So what does all of that mean? Well first, the only thing this officer could be charged with as a civilian would be a violation of AS 11.61.210 (2). That would be discharging a firearm from, on, or across a highway, assuming his car was on a public road or street. I don’t think you could get him for reckless disregard for a risk of physical injury or a dwelling because I don’t think he was aiming at a building. So the biggest thing you could get him on would be a “Misconduct involving weapons in the fourth degree”. Now such a crime is merely a CLASS A MISDEMEANOR. And what are the conditions of the permit? You can’t have two class A misdemeanors [AS 18.65.705]. He would only have one.

In conclusion, under the supplied evidence by Keith, there is no conclusive evidence that had this officer been a civilian that had a negligent discharge while exiting his vehicle on a public road or street, he would not have had his concealed weapon license revoked by the applicable Alaskan authorities. Further, I ask that all further claims and broad generalizations that such a negligent discharge by a civilian would result in the revocation of a CCW permit be prohibited from being dispersed by individuals of sound judgment and rational thinking. Those who continue to spout off the above mentioned rhetoric shall by default label themselves emotional, anti-gun, liberal types that have no regard for reality or the law and wish to further their agenda by any lies or misconceptions possible all for the safety of the children. Thank you. :D

LiquidTension I am failing to understand how the DEA is to blame for the legislative efforts of the government? Don’t law makers make the laws? Aren’t they responsible for creating the current prohibitions against drugs? Aren’t executive bodies like the DEA subject to the control of the legislative purse strings? I believe that if a body of congress decided that they did not want the DEA to enforce marijuana prohibition, they could either pass a law making marijuana legal or they could cut the budget of the DEA until they comply. Further, isn’t it citizens that vote and contact their law makers and tell law makers that they support and encourage the ban against marijuana?

Yeah karma is a real bitch. I guess your apathy towards the harm on DEA officers is equaled in karma by my apathy towards dope heads that get busted for enjoying their hobby. Oh wait, I don’t believe in karma so I guess it doesn’t apply now does it? It just plain sucks for the 420 clan since karma won't be changing anything. You want to make a difference, get the situation sorted out and realize the DEA doesn’t operate without authority. They don’t make the laws, they just enforce them.

Covey Rise
May 21, 2003, 03:18 AM
I hunt with at least 40 different people a year on bird hunts, go to skeet shoots, and other shotgun activities, and I have never seen a AD/ND. Most of these guys only handle their guns about once a year, and still they don't have ND's.

I just wonder how he still has a foot, it must have been a near hit.

TheeBadOne
May 21, 2003, 04:04 AM
El Rojo; 2 damn credible posts http://www.thehighroad.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

LiquidTension
May 21, 2003, 11:35 AM
El Rojo - your last sentence made my point for me. There are many laws that are not enforced - discretion is the key. They simply choose to enforce laws that are garbage. Yes, others write the laws, but they still have the option of not enforcing them.

If you don't like potheads, that's fine. Pot makes you stupid and lazy (from what I've seen, anyway). Your opinion is just as meaningless as mine :D I just feel the way about the DEA that many board members feel about the ATF. Whatever, I'm not afraid to go against the flow.

I am also philisophically opposed to drug tests for employment. If someone wants to do drugs at home but can still perform their job at work, why mess with them? The restaurant industry is the only industry that seems to have grasped this concept. Next time you go to a restaurant, just remember that the cooks are usually high, and the server is high about 1/4 of the time. This I know from working in 4 different restaurants ranging from meat and three to semi formal dining. Could be that it's just a Columbia thing though. One of my managers told me one time that the company would never drug test anyone unless they were injured on the job, because they'd lose 95% of their employees :what:

It's very interesting that board members here will unite when the ATF raids a gunshop and takes the owner's freedom away because of a lapsed $25 permit, but people start crying when I complain that the DEA takes people's freedom away for enjoying a joint, which hurts no one but themselves. Hmm, gun dealer hurts no one, gets support. Smoker hurts no one, gets the ire of the board. Oh well, opinions vary.

Anyway El Rojo, if you don't believe in karma, do you believe in the golden rule? How would you like it if someone busted down your door and took you to jail because of improperly stored firearms or some such nonsense? It is the same thing as the DEA busting pot smokers. They technically break the law, but do they really deserve jail time? No. They hurt no one, and they help the economy by buying Doritos and other munchy foods. What I'm trying to say is, you wouldn't like it if the same ridiculous standards that you seem to preach were applied to you - being busted for harmless infractions of the law. C'mon, you live in Kali. Do you really abide by EVERY silly firearms law there, or do you occasionally let one slip? I know they have laws about safe storage of firearms over there, that's why I brought that one up. I'm not accusing you of breaking laws, I'm just saying that the DEA nitpicks little things to bust people and take their belongings. So, do unto others, blah blah blah.

Kinda rambling, but I'm still asleep.

Erik
May 21, 2003, 12:12 PM
I like many, many Americans do not share the belief that enjoying illegal drugs is a harmless recreational activity which leads to nothing more than moderate depletion of one;s bank account.

---

Does anyone here really believe that DEA agents have, but choose not to excercise, discretion regarding enforcing drug violations?

The same thing but for BATF agents and firearms?

How about IRS agents and tax code violations?

My point? There are some things LEOs are allowed to excercise discretion on and soms things they are not. That goes for every department everywhere, no matter how liberal their discretion policies may be. (Basically, when higher-ups want enfoprcement on a perticular matter, they get it.)

Who are those higher-ups? Ultimately, when you think about it, the people of a given community, be it municipal or national.

Keith
May 21, 2003, 12:55 PM
El Rojo,

He would clearly be guilty of (at least) two misconduct charges:

(2) discharges a firearm from, on, or across a highway;
(3) discharges a firearm with reckless disregard for a risk of physical injury to a person under circumstances other than those described in AS 11.61.195 (a)(3)(a).

Thus his CCW would be pulled.

Keith

TheeBadOne
May 21, 2003, 06:17 PM
SaxonPig it's nice to hear another voice of reason on here.

El Rojo
May 21, 2003, 07:16 PM
Keith. I don't think that you would be able to charge the officer with discharging a firearm with reckless disregard for a risk of physical injury. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but reckless disregard for a risk of physical injury would be if he intentionally discharged his firearm in a manner that would risk physical injury towards someone else. I don't think shooting yourself in the foot is reckless disregard. If he drove down the street shooting his gun in the air, yes. If he shot himself in the foot exiting his vehicle, hardly reckless disregard for a risk of physical injury.

So remains, one class A misdemeanor. He keeps his license, if they even would charge him as it is.

LiquidTension. Thank you for the private message of good will. Despite my disagreeing with Liquid Tension, I think he has been rather civil and polite about his beliefs and I respect him highly for that.

That being said, I think it would be far off topic to discuss the legalities of marijuana and other "harmless" drugs on this thread. However, we can address the idea behind the BATF busting me for some dinky weapons charge. Of course I am breaking now laws, but if I were, I would take the risk of being caught for it. I can't blame the law enforcement officer or agency for arresting me for violating a "senseless" law. True, they could have used discretion. Same for a speeding ticket. Often people get mad at the officer when they get caught for breaking some minor law that the officer could have let them off for. However, the law is the law. By breaking it, you should accept the risk involved and be willing to accept the consequences of your actions. I once parked in a handicap spot so I could unload my equipment for the soccer team I was coaching. I was the only car on the entire block. Along comes local PD captain on a mission to take a bite out of crime. Despite me being right there by my car and asking him if he wanted to move my car, he said, "I'll have it moved, I'll have it towed." Yes, he was not having a good day or he didn't like anyone who would park in a handicap spot, regardless of its location. I was mad. Why? It was $282! I wanted to fight it. I was stark mad. However, I eventually accepted that I had broken the law. I could fight it, but the fact remained, I had violated the rules of the State of California. I paid my $282. I accepted the responsibility for my actions.

If I were to get busted for some minor firearms violation, I would have to do the same. I might be upset at the officer for busting a "mainly" law abiding citizen, but the law is the law. He doesn't make the laws, he just enforces them. Why he busted me doesn't matter. He might be in a bad mood, he might have a personal agenda, or he might not like the way I look or act. The fact is, he has the duty to enforce the law. If he does his job, it is hard for me to justify any ill-will towards him because I knowingly broke the law. Marijuana smokers know that they are breaking the law. It is a risk they accept and a responsibility they need to accept if they get caught doing it.

Now if I want to do something about it. I can write my legislators, write my local press, and try to organize a movement to change the public consensus, or at least the consensus of voters. Getting mad at law enforcement for doing their job is not going to acomplish anything.

As far as the golden rule goes, I don't see how it could possibly apply to criminals and law enforcement. So as a criminal, if I am willing to break the law, should cops be willing to break the laws too? Is that what you mean by the golden rule? Since I disregard the laws of the land, so should cops when arresting me? Should they plant evidence or beat me around a bit while I am handcuffed? That is probably not what you meant right? Some cops do let things go. Some do not. Hating a whole group for the actions of some is not going to get anything changed. I know police officers who have seen people with illegal weapons in this state. They politely inform them that that is illegal, and that they should be be carefuly who they have that around or fix it. It varies from case to case. We can both give examples of both ways; however, the point remains, the legislature makes the rules, the LEO enforces it. Don't fault a cop for doing his job according to the laws of his jurisdiction. Fault the system that asks him to enforce the laws he is enforcing.

And really, the best reason not to support the illicet drug trade is because terrorists sell drugs to front money for their terror campaigns! I saw that on a commercial once! :D Have a good day everyone.

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