Why do we use NewSpeak?


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badgerrr
May 18, 2003, 01:49 AM
Hope this is in the right section. This pertains to Political strategy so .....here goes....
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Why do we use NewSpeak?
Methinks most members of this board would quickly agree that the PC (Politically Correct) are overwhelmingly negative entities in our times. They are always pushing bad stuff.

Also think that most of us would affirm that this same P.C. group mints up all the stupid NewSpeak termanology we keep getting shoved into our faces. (Gay, African-American, Native-American, this-American, That-American, Sexual Preferance, Homophobic, Gun-Culture, Racism, Sexism, This&Thatism.....)

But the thing that confuses me to no end is: Why do we empower these characters by using their bastardizations of our language?

Seems like every freshly minted NewSpeak term is common parlance in a matter of months. And we use the words too. Why are we doing that? :confused:

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BigG
May 18, 2003, 04:21 AM
I try to avoid loaded words but sometimes goof up. I think it's smart not to allow the bad guys to define the language.

444
May 18, 2003, 08:19 AM
I agree. This is one of the reasons that I have made comments here and there about using correct gun terminology. Refuse to use the term Assult Rifle incorrectly by using it to identify a semi-auto rifle. Refuse to use the term HI-CAP magazine when referring to a magazine that the gun was disigned and built to use. Refuse to use the word clip when you mean magazine. Refuse to use the word bullet when you really mean cartridge. Don't allow the idiots of the world to influence how you speak.


The PC phase that gags me is the word "community". Black community, gay community, cat community, dog community, gun community, ........................................................... :barf: :barf:

another okie
May 18, 2003, 03:04 PM
Using the language of morality and responsibility makes you sound like an old fogy preacher. People will shut you out immediately. It's fine to talk that way at home, but if you are in a policy debate you need to sound modern.

Just use the language as a tool. For example, "The self-defense community..." And talk about our feelings, our heritage, our traditions, about our role in a diverse society. That is far more effective than talking about rights, though that has its place as well.

It's sad that the United States is such a touchy-feely, emotional, non-judgmental place, but we have to live in the real world.

Read Machiavelli if you want some perspective. He talks about the need to pitch your ideas to people in their terms - religion, family, and so on. Anger, self-righteousness and preachiness will get us nowhere.

Denny Hansen
May 18, 2003, 07:57 PM
This thread would probably be better in Legal and Political. Moving it over there.

Denny

Malone LaVeigh
May 18, 2003, 08:23 PM
:confused:
You seem to be saying that terms like (Gay, African-American, Native-American, this-American, That-American, Sexual Preferance, Homophobic, Gun-Culture, Racism, Sexism, This&Thatism.....) are not "politically correct" from your POV. What terms would you approve of?

Sir Galahad
May 18, 2003, 08:33 PM
Yeah , Malone, he must be a racist. Silly him, thinking people ought to just be "Americans" instead of using a hyphen to show they're divided Americans. Yeah, sounds just like racism. I wonder how it'd be received if some people started calling themselves "White-Americans" or "Indo-Euopean-Americans".

"Today's lecture, class is on the culture of White-Americans. We will be looking at such cultural icons as velvet Elvis paintings, paintings of dogs playing poker, and such ethnic cuisines as macroni and cheese, Jell-o, chili mac, and TV dinners. We'll explore the language of White America like "Hi, honey, I'm home!" And we'll explore the arts and theatre of White America through such epics as Leave It To Beaver, My Favorite Martian, and Father Knows Best. Please, no racist remarks of assuming all white people want to be called white. They are White-Americans."


Really, Malone. Stop seeing elephants in your refrigerator.

Malone LaVeigh
May 18, 2003, 09:24 PM
Oh, really? Whenever I need to, in the context of conversation, refer to my ethnicity, one of the terms I might need to use is "Italian American" or even "Italo-American." What would you prefer? "American" might be true, but it doesn't get the point I'm trying to make across. "Italian" isn't true. So what's the PC term?

Red-blooded, God-fearing, born-in-Dixie, kick-yo'-*ss, Amurrican, some of whose ancestors happened to come from Italy?

Standing Wolf
May 18, 2003, 09:38 PM
Those who define the terms of discussion usually lead it.

I never refer, for example to "liberals." I call them what they are: leftist extremists. I never refer, for another example, to "gun control," but always to "leftist extremist so-called 'gun control'."

Delmar
May 18, 2003, 09:47 PM
You can tell Malone ain't from Texas-we're all "murricans" here:D
I for one have had a belly full of this new speak when it comes from the snivelers. To me, its nothing more than empty filler designed to lessen the the true impact.
For example, "acceptable casualties" to a general says absolutely nothing to the grunt in the field who has just seen his best buddies head taken off.
The liberals have a whole new vocabulary to describe all kinds of things in ways which take away the impact of what they are trying to describe.
We get this stuff all the time at work about how to be "diverse" and a thousand other terms which makes me want to puke in their pocket.
Personally, I find no enjoyment in using ethnic or racial slurrs-there is much more satisfaction in hating an individual than to blame it on their ancestors. Besides, I learned long ago that everyone is pretty much my friend unless they care to prove otherwise.
I ain't buying any..............

matis
May 18, 2003, 09:58 PM
We should refuse to go along with their perversion of language.

Gay people ain't so gay -- much higher incidence of AIDS and other diseases, watch so many of their friends die. Even with the political muscle they now have, more people are put off by their sex practises than accept them.

I would NEVER attack them or deny them their civil rights. But to have them as role models for my children, scout masters and so on. I'm against that. And I'm not homophobic -- that is I don't fear them. When I lived in Hollywood and attended college I attracted homosexuals because I at first majored in English literature, loved poetry and was oh so sensitive. And I was naive, didn't see them coming. So I had a number of homosexual friends. But I learned what the girls felt like when they would say to me ...(ugh), " can't we just be friends?"

I got along well enough with them, then.

Now I'm raising a daughter and I don't want her to think that their's is just another life-style. I oppose their agenda. Sorry, but I do still have that right, do I not?

Wetlands are really swamps.

Rain-forest is the euphemism for jungle.

Homeless we used to call bums. Instead of teaching self-reliance and thrift and self-discipline -- we're taught that they are "less-fortunate" vicitims of society and more such socialist crap. So we get more of 'em.

Anyway, to those who object to my rejection of their PC mind-twisting word games I say,

"If you don't like it -- you can go be intimate with yourself!"

How'se that for sensitivity?


Matis

Wildalaska
May 18, 2003, 10:07 PM
Why do we empower these characters by using their bastardizations of our language?

Yet you use a term like"empower"

Gay people ain't so gay -- much higher incidence of AIDS and other diseases, watch so many of their friends die. Even with the political muscle they now have, more people are put off by the sex practises than accept them.

O really? Got a little purient interest in other peoples sex practices? What difference dsoes that make? Maybe gay men are put off by hetero practices...

But to have them as role models for my children, scout masters and so on. I'm against that.

Right...they might do something perverted to the kiddies..better send the kids somewhere safe..like a Catholic Church:neener:

WildwhatasillythreadAlaska

sonny
May 18, 2003, 10:07 PM
Homeless we used to call bums.
Funny thing.....I used to give bums spare change years back,not anymore!....I'm sick of hearing about how in some way it's my fault that they are their present condition.
BRING BACK THE BUMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

matis
May 18, 2003, 10:27 PM
Wildaslaska said:
O really? Got a little purient interest in other peoples sex practices? What difference dsoes that make? Maybe gay men are put off by hetero practices...
________________________________________________

Well, I certainly have my share of prurient interests, don't you? But after my misspent youth, I've kinda narrowed them down somewhat.
----

Wildalaska said:
Right...they might do something perverted to the kiddies..better send the kids somewhere safe..like a Catholic Church
____________________________________________

Funny you'd mention that, wildalska. That's no longer a safe place, I'm afraid. Not criticizing the Church at all, but having allowed homosexuals to infiltrate they now have first hand experience with the high incidence of pedophiles among "gays", don't they?

With most American instititions captured by the left, certainly the media -- you don't often see reporting of the true, much higher incidence of pedophilia among homosexual men. Much higher!

The Catholic Church has a big job on its hands to clean this terrible mess up.

The left-extremists and religion haters love to blame the church as a whole for this pedophilia. They cover up who the real culprits are. Wouldn't be PC to tell, would it?


Matis

badgerrr
May 19, 2003, 03:06 AM
GadZooks!

Lots of response on this thread since the last time I seen it. So much to respond to - but there's danger of getting off gun topic here big time. So I'll try to be concise.

444- Dude! I'm with ya on the Newspeak use of the word "Community". Frosts me to no end. Homeless also rubs the wrong way.

Regarding the word "empower"....like most Newspeak words.... it came from real English. If one diverts 15 cannon to the Italian forces to empower them to knock out enemy resistance on a hill - that's English. If one diverts incredible amounts of money to "empower" disadvantaged Gay&Lesbian African-Americans....that's PC.

"are not "politically correct" from your POV. "

Politically Correct isn't about My or anyone elses POV. Go to most anyone who edits any kind of paper and ask him what's P.C. They are the ones who must bow to it most slavishly.

The individuals who craft Newspeak today have many irons in the fire. Destroying the 2nd amendment is one of them. I submit that we need to watch how they craft this language, to make the absurd seem sensible, and how it is used to divide us against ourselves. :(

Pendragon
May 19, 2003, 03:43 AM
I think being "PC" is much more about what you are willing to talk about and bring up than using terms like "Italian-American".

Sure hyphenated terms can be annoying, but if you called anyone on my moms side a WOP, they might kick your anterior - and repent at their protestant church the next day.

There are a lot of ugly terms that we could use to refer to our fellow Americans of various backgrounds - if you are so enamored with those words, by all means, use them.

You will quickly be marginalized and forgotten.

We have a lot of Gay people on this forum. I like the word Gay because it is shorter to type than "Homosexual".

I swear I do not understand people who get uptight about gay people. We have many here in our "community" and there are many who vote libertarian and republican and many who live out their lives as contributing, honorable citizens. I know a few who are very depressed by the circus that goes on in San Francisco - but so what?

Newsflash: Homosexuality was not invented to usher us all into the NWO or the Illuminati or whatever. It's just people doing what they want to do - it's called freedom. Get over it.

The language will continue to evolve and change - we need to choose our battles and not just stupidly rebel against every convention of society we dislike. We are alreaday percieved as racist rednecks most of them time anyway.

What we need are more gun owners who can speak in a way that is percieved as civilized, educated, tolerant and sensitive by most of society. No matter how right you are otherwise, if you come off as anything else, most people will just get hung up on how much they do not like you, do not want to know you and do not want to be you.

Notice one of the more effective techniques over at DU lately is framing the gun debate in terms of "pro-choice" - very much a PC term that irks a lot of people.

This is effective because it deals with the problem in terms and language they understand and are sympathetic towards.

Then again, maybe we should just scream "from our cold dead hands!" - of course, they may just agree to those terms...

general
May 19, 2003, 04:26 AM
puke in their pocket
OK I'm in.. new PC term "Pocket Puker"
All these terms sneak out and infiltrate the language so subtly.... I am an American.... (I have Indian, Irish, Spanish and several European bloodlines in my family history) But my family has been in America for over 200 years....
Am I a Mongrel-American?
No - I am an American. All these Hypenated-Americans make me wonder - I don't want to deny them their family history... far from it, we should be happy America was created by immigrants, it couldn't have been created any other way. But, come on , at least be American first. After all, I was born in this country - I'm no more Irish than Bill Cosby. It would be foolish for me to call myself Irish-American (American-Irish). So, to me, it seems like so much PC hogwash for the pocket pukers.
I really try not to use the PC language in RL. But like Pendragon said...
The language will continue to evolve and change - we need to choose our battles and not just stupidly rebel against every convention of society we dislike. We are already percieved as racist rednecks most of them time anyway.
What we need are more gun owners who can speak in a way that is percieved as civilized, educated, tolerant and sensitive by most of society.
We need to speak to people in their own language... the language they understand... We need to do more to change that language to be more reflective of reality, too. How? You got me.

Delmar
May 19, 2003, 04:33 AM
General-I think you might want to check with the "pocket pukee" to find out if the act is "PC":D

WonderNine
May 19, 2003, 05:00 AM
That makes sense, considering political correctness was invented by communists in the 1920's....

JimR
May 19, 2003, 07:33 AM
I agree, and you'll get my Homeland Defense Rifle when you take it FMCDH. http://www.thehighroad.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

buzz_knox
May 19, 2003, 08:27 AM
Red-blooded, God-fearing, born-in-Dixie, kick-yo'-*ss, Amurrican, some of whose ancestors happened to come from Italy?

How about American of Italian descent and only when ethnicity is required to be identified? Hypenated Americanism was developed to separate and divide groups, making it easier to engage in class warfare arguments.

mjydrafter
May 19, 2003, 09:05 AM
To me, "homeless" means that for some reason (flood, twister, destroyed by war, ect.) you no longer have a house. It evokes a temporary feeling.

None of the few "homeless" around here appear to be in a temporary situation. Most, it would also seem, are in a situation of thier own creation.

winstonsmith
May 20, 2003, 11:52 PM
There is a lady at my school who is hyper PC. I was talking about three black guys who mugged me and she came up, interrupted my conversation, and said "Don't call them black people, thats racist." I retorted "But they call me white?" She said afterP@"Thats not racist because you are." I said to her politely but very firmly, "Please don't but into my private conversations, especially if you choose to participate with hypocrisy." As she backed away slowly I felt the soft glow of victory.

Im proud of that. I'm tired of white guilt. I didn't do anything to anyone, so if they want me to spend my life being guilty, they can take a number.

By talking about differences, and by celebrating each others ancient cultural roots, and having a latino club and a chinese club and so on (course a white club would be racist, I asked) we are just putting up barriers between us. We are all people. Black, white, yellow, red, purple, green or rainbow. Who cares?

Oh yes, and a comment about gay people. Someone said "the prevalence of HIV." You make it sound like people are dying in the street, which isn't true. Trust me, I live in San Francisco. The biggest AIDS crisis is in Africa, where it is spread generally by straight sex. Homosexualism is just another life style, and having one as a role model for your child is not going to corrupt him/her. It's not a disease. It's not contagious.

Oh wait.. If I accept that people should be able to do what they want in the bedroom that makes me an extreme lefty....

dev_null
May 21, 2003, 12:02 PM
Always cracks me up, BTW, when I hear someone rant and rave about "PC" this and that, or against revisionism in terminology... and then start talking about "The War of Northern Aggression," a term coined by skinheads and racists within the last few decades. :rolleyes:

-0-

Tamara
May 21, 2003, 01:15 PM
Yeah, we used to call it "When the North invaded America". ;)

444
May 21, 2003, 07:47 PM
"a term coined by skinheads and racists within the last few decades. "

Yeah, just a few.
The decades since about 1860.



:scrutiny:

Malone LaVeigh
May 22, 2003, 02:39 AM
Yeah, we used to call it "When the North invaded America".We used to call it the "Second American Revolution (Unfinished for now...)"

dev_null
May 22, 2003, 01:41 PM
The decades since about 1860.BZZZTT!!!
Next contestant.

Please provide a reference to this term being in common usage at that time. I have no problem with making public apologies if I'm proven wrong.

-0-

444
May 22, 2003, 03:11 PM
I got a better idea; since you are so interested, you research it. I have no interest in proving anything to you at all.

dev_null
May 22, 2003, 03:18 PM
QED

If anyone has anything *useful* to add...?

-0-

Tamara
May 22, 2003, 03:23 PM
By the standard rules of logic, the burden of proof is on the one who makes the positive assertion.

You have stated a positive assertion, so please provide some proof. (I honestly would be interested in reading it, BTW...)

sonny
May 22, 2003, 03:23 PM
I did a quick search and came up with alot of hits including this one....http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War
As far as proving it was in common usage at the time of the war?......That may take a little reasearch

sonny
May 22, 2003, 03:28 PM
The second paragraph states....
The war was and is also known in the South as The War Between the States, The War of Northern Aggression, The War of Southern Independence, or simply as The War. More obscure southern names for the war include The Second American Revolution and The War in Defence of Virginia. Northerners often referred to it as The War of the Rebellion, The War to Save the Union, or The War for Abolition.

Note where it states....The war WAS AND IS ALSO KNOWN IN THE SOUTH AS...Bla Bla Bla

That search took me all of 2 minutes

dev_null
May 22, 2003, 04:00 PM
I sit corrected.

Honestly, I'd never heard it called anything but the "Civil War" or sometimes "The War Between the States," and my ex's family was from Alabama and I've lived in Virginia off and on all my life... It's been only in the last ten or fifteen years that I've heard anyone call it the "War of Northern Aggession" (so called because of their underhanded attack on Fort Sumter, no doubt ;) ).

444, you were correct. "Bzzt" retracted.

-0-

Ewok
May 22, 2003, 05:56 PM
Back home, we just call it the recent unpleasantness. ;) I seem to recall some colorful terms used by Granny in The Beverly Hillbillies, from the mid 1960s.

spacemanspiff
May 22, 2003, 06:40 PM
why do we use newspeak? to keep our interactions with the easily offended as civil as possible. as much as i hate anything PC, i would rather not have those around me constantly up in arms over what comes out of my mouth.

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