What RSC to purchase?


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refresh248
October 28, 2006, 04:44 PM
After reading the threads in regards to RSC's I am a little confused on what to purchase. I can not afford a $1,000.00 plus RSC and after reading the threads feel I should not waste money on a high end RSC. Am I better off just getting a Sentry 14 gun RSC from Wal-Mart or is it better to purchase a Liberty Centurion or Amsec 17 CF safe for $200.00 more? My options are the Liberty Centurion 17 CF or the Amsec 5517 both for $750 delivered and installed. I can also purchase a Sentry at Wal-Mart for about $400.00 or a Winchester at Sams for $600.00 and have to transport and install myself. My last option is a Cobalt 17CF also, which I never heard of, for $600-$700 depending on delivery. Any opinions would be appreciated. Thanks

P.S. I am well aware of the limitations with RSC's!!!

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CB900F
October 28, 2006, 05:08 PM
Refresh;

Personally, if it were me, I'd go with the Winchester at Sam's. No sense paying any more than you have to, the protection levels among them don't significantly differ IMHO.

I'm not fully conversant with the Sentry you mentioned, but I know the Winchester is built by Granite in Texas. I very much suspect the actual manufacturer of the Sentry is offshore. I regard the Winchester as a decent unit for the money.

900F

refresh248
October 28, 2006, 09:40 PM
Thanks for responding cb900F. I forgot to mention that the Winchester comes with an electronic lock. Does that change your opinion? I did not want an electronic lock based on what I have researched, but I would reconsider if you still think that this RSC is best out of the bunch. The Sentry RSC I mentioned is the generic 14 gun 200 pound RSC found at Wal-Mart. It is listed at $350.00 and has an electronic lock as well.

lawson4
October 28, 2006, 11:51 PM
I have an electronic lock on my Browning safe and like it. If the battery goes dead, I can insert a new one and get it open in less than a minute.

lawson4

CB900F
October 29, 2006, 11:13 AM
Refresh;

If the electronic lock on the Winchester is a LaGard or S&G, then I have no reservations about it. However, as with any security device, the cheap stuff is frequently junk. I have used electronic locks on my personal safe(s) for years with no problems.

Lawson brings up a valid point. Make sure the electronic has an external battery that can be changed with the door shut, not that that's a good idea. But be sure that the battery or batterys are outside the interior of the unit. With a burned memory lock, you could leave the battery out for a year, stick a new battery in & open the container.

900F

GeneS
October 29, 2006, 11:44 AM
The Winchester at Sam's is nice. Actually, it's a bit nicer than a Browning I paid a lot more for 15 yrs. ago.

Dick Flanagan
November 1, 2006, 10:56 PM
CB9000F:

You stated that LaGard and SGC electronic locks are good. I have a more basic question....

I am looking at Amsec BF safes and they state they use "U.L. listed group II locks." What does that mean? What are the properties of a UL group II lock?

I checked the U.L. web site and now I am more confused than ever.

a1abdj
November 1, 2006, 11:31 PM
The "Group 2" and "Group 1" designations relate to a lock's manipulation resistance.

There are both "Group 2" and "Group 1" mechanical locks, but only "Group 1" electronic locks.

As far as gun safes go, you would be well served with a Group 2 mechanical or a Group 1 electronic lock. I do prefer the mechanical locks myself, but have many happy customers using electronic locks.

Dick Flanagan
November 1, 2006, 11:58 PM
Thanks, Frank. Can you give me an idea of the different capabilities of Group I and II locks? I.e., what could a Group II survive that a Group I couldn't?

I like the reliabilty of mechanical locks, but I really like the Wrong Try Penalties offered by the electronic locks. I like the extra security of key-operated mechanicals, but I like the speed of opening electronics.

My safe will be residential and only opened once or twice a day, so I will probably go with a mechanical, but I am still curious about the Group I and II differences.

RNB65
November 2, 2006, 12:01 AM
AMSEC if you can afford it, Cannon if you can't. Why? Because they're all about the same.

a1abdj
November 2, 2006, 01:59 PM
Group 1: Minimum of 1,000,000 possible combinations. Resistant to expert manipulation for 20 man-hours.

Group 1R: Minimum of 1,000,000 possible combinations. Resistant to expert manipulation for 20 man-hours. Resistant to radiological attack (x-ray) for 20 hours.

Group 2M: Minimum of 1,000,000 possible combinations. Moderately resistant to manipulation.

Group 2: Minimum of 1,000,000 possible combiantions. Reasonably resistant to unauthorized opening.

ramon
November 2, 2006, 09:13 PM
So what is the price difference between a Group 1 and 2 lock? Why don't more rsc's or safes use Group 1's? I've never acutally seen a group 1 mechanical on a box or even a TL 30 safe.

a1abdj
November 2, 2006, 10:52 PM
So what is the price difference between a Group 1 and 2 lock?

A Group 1 mechanical lock runs about 3 times the cost of a Group 2 mechanical lock. Depending on the lock, this could be in the hundreds of dollars.

Why don't more rsc's or safes use Group 1's?

There are many commercial and government rated safes which do use Group 1 locks.

You don't see them on gun safes, because 90% of those shopping for gun safes want to spend as little as possible. Putting a $200 lock on a $500 safe doesn't make much sense. Most burglaries involving gun safes are brute force attacks, and not a skilled lock manipulations. I'm a professional, and am not very good at manipulation myself.

I've never acutally seen a group 1 mechanical on a box or even a TL 30 safe

Mosler used to use them on some of their TL-30 round door safes. They are also seen on many of your older GSA containers. Some of your higher rated jewelers type safes also use them.

More often than not, the locks on your bank's vault door are Group 1 mechanical locks.

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