coyote


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musky hunter
May 18, 2003, 10:54 AM
I was wondering if .270 win would be too powerful for coyote?

In Ont, there is a restriction that you cannot hunt small game with a larger than .270 bullet.

So a .270 Win would be the perfect all around caliber. I am dumping my 30-06 idea.

The problem is i dont reload and I cant find any 100 gr. factory cartidges for the .270. Is hunting a coyote with a solid 130gr bullet excessive?

Is the .270 win with a super power point 150 gr with 2900 ft-lb capable of hunting black bear or moose?

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tango3065
May 18, 2003, 11:27 AM
270 will work fine I use my 243 for coyote but im in the process of buying a 270 for my new deer rifle and I also plan to use this on coyote.

rugerfreak
May 18, 2003, 11:30 AM
.270??

About right for the black bear.

A little small for the moose.

A bit much for the coyote.

It will take all if the shooter does his part.

Art Eatman
May 18, 2003, 11:57 AM
I sorta doubt you're gonna be eating coyotes, so ruining meat's not an issue. If you're gonna save the hide, a .270 might not expand as explosively as a .243, so you wouldn't have much of a hole to sew up.

Otherwise, then, what difference does it make?

:), Art

cratz2
May 18, 2003, 04:04 PM
I've taken at least one coyote with each of the following: 22 magnum, 223, 243, 25-06 and 270. Using Winchester Supremes with the 22 and VMax with the 223 and 243 and SSTs with the 25-06 and 270. There was less damage with the SSTs, as expected but the increased loudness and recoil weren't worth it in my book. While target shooting, hearing protection is always used. In the field, esp when with others, you can't always be 100% sure you will be completely forward of everyone else and oftentimes you won't have time to put on your ears.

If I were hunting alone, I would take whichever rifle and load I was wanting to try out. If I was hunting with others and I was expecting no shots past 100 yards, I'd take the 22 magnum. If I was hunting with others and was expecting plenty long shots, I'd probably take the 243 just because I have a lightweight one and I don't have a lightweight 223. If I only had a 270 and wanted to go out, I'd grab it without hesitation even if all I had was 130 Gr Power Points though I'd rather have something with a bit more consistant expansion like either the Winchester Silvertips or Federal Ballistic Tips. More than likely, you'll see less damage than you will with 75 Gr Ballistic Tips in a 243.

In my personal experience, which isn't all that considerable, I am comfortable shooting a 26" barrel 223 without hearing protection or more likely than that, standing behind someone shooting the same. My 22" barrel 243 is a whole nother level of loud.

As far as black bear or moose, I have no experience at all with them but would rather have something larger than 270 personally. I would think that if I were going to use a 270 for either of them, I'd definately go with premium, controlled expansion bullets. Probably X Bullets, Nosler Partition or Fail Safes or something like those over the Power Points.

El Rojo
May 18, 2003, 09:20 PM
If .270 were overkill, then I should stop using .308 110 gr. V-max on squirrels and .308 125 gr. Speer TNT-HPs on coyotes. The one thing you want to take into consideration is what that bullet is going to do after it hits your target. If I were to use 150 gr. big-game bullets on a coyote, that bullet will probably go through and potentially keep going. I have to be darn sure of my back drop. More likely to happen is if I miss. Then that 150 gr. energy retaining bullet is going to skip along flat ground for a while. That is why I like using the smaller varmint bullets. I hit a coyote with a 125 gr. TNT-HP right in the middle of his chest as he was facing me. No exit wound!!! Man did he drop like a ton of bricks. That 125 gr. TNT-HP stopped inside of him somewhere. I could only imagine what his insides looked like.

Try to use varmint bullets when you can. Misses and hits won't go as far beyond your backdrop. When hunting on flat land, this is pretty important.

As far as being over kill, I like when I hit a coyote with my .308 that it doesn't go further than 5-10 yards, even if I don't get as good of a hit as I would have liked.

dakotasin
May 18, 2003, 10:23 PM
i dump a coyote w/ whatever tool i have at the ready, and that runs about everything up to and including 338 win mag. no such thing as overkill, especially concerning coyotes.

btw, on the way home from load development yesterday afternoon, i happened across a fox. all i had was the 308 i was working w/... boy, them hornady a-max's do a number on a fox out of a 308 win.

rugerfreak
May 18, 2003, 11:15 PM
You should see what my pickup did to a fox pup the other day----lol.

NO---I didn't hit it on purpose----the whole litter crossed the hi-way-----when the one got spooked and ran the way he came from--------right into my truck.

Sunray
May 19, 2003, 03:09 AM
musky hunter, nope. It's a case of using what you have. Try and find a lighter bullet but don't worry about it. Try LeBaron's. Or if you're up for a wee drive Shooter's Choice 671 Colby Rd, I think, in Kitchener. It's off King St. Tuesdays or Saturdays are the days to go. The St. Jacob's Market is just up the road. You will need full cammo, etc for coyotes though and Shooter's Choice has it all. Nice people too. http://www.bow-shop.com/Default.htm
Same people with a map.

Art Eatman
May 19, 2003, 09:22 AM
Sunray, I gotta disagree about the camo. Any old dull clothing will do, in my experience. Coyotes are like deer in that their eyes just see varying shades of gray. Motion, however, is a giveaway.

Birds see colors, so camo is needed--or very helpful--in turkey hunting. I have read that doves specifically dislike blue colors; dunno why, but you'll do better with khakis than with blue jeans.

:), Art

KMKeller
May 19, 2003, 10:12 AM
Sunray, I have to agree with Art. I hunted coyote from horseback for years wearing jeans and a denim jacket over whatever shirt.

TechBrute
May 19, 2003, 04:18 PM
I was wondering if .270 win would be too powerful for coyote? "too powerful..." I'm not familiar with that term.:D

CARSON
May 19, 2003, 04:50 PM
270 is an accurate round, and that is one of the major things to look for in a varnint rifle. A Winchester featherweight for a carry gun would be ideal, I used to have one and you hardly noticed you had it.

If you are looking for a place for firearms, ammo, and hunting equipment, and do not mind a drive, go to Elwood Epps in Orillia (I think it is Orillia) and they will have everything you need. Shooters Choice is another good spot, as Sunray mentioned earlier, but I have more experience with Epps. They are nice people and are not that great at marking realoading supplies so you can sometimes walk out of the store with $150 worth of gear for $90.

musky hunter
May 19, 2003, 04:57 PM
Thanxs for all the help. I think i am going to get a lightweight .270 for all around rifle.

pullskinner
May 20, 2003, 11:54 AM
Elmer Keith dismissed the .270 as "a damned adequate coyote rifle". If it was goood enough for Elmer, it ought to be good enough for the rest of us mere mortals. My coyote rig is an old sporterized mauser rebarreled to 30.06 in which i shoot a reduced load. Really enjoy the challenge of calling them in close.

El Rojo
May 21, 2003, 03:28 AM
Art, for some reason I just am not buying that when "coyote calling" you would be just as well off wearing your blue jeans as full camo. Now hunting them out of the truck, nothing really matters does it. That truck seems to attract their attention most of the time. Walking around will probably get their attention too. I have done lots of coyote calling. I just don't see sitting around in blue jeans being a good way to entice a coyote into rifle or shotgun range. Then again, I have never tried it with my blaze orange hat. Wait I don't have one of those either.

sm
May 21, 2003, 04:57 AM
:( Never got to do this. Sigh...someday.

I have had to dispatch a pack of rabid dogs. I used the '06 and used the 150 gr ST ( its what the old boy had). Very effective on 80 # Doberman hybrid . Iron sights out to 75 or so yds

With back up I used the 45 ACP with SXT and some 250 gr HC lead loads, again effective. 3 yds a bit too close for comfort, I like the 10 - 30 yds ( more comfy).;)

I don't use camo ( it shrunk) drab colors, movement is key.

cratz2
May 21, 2003, 05:18 AM
I've been coyote sniping with two different sets of guys. I asked what to wear the first time out. I was told light khakis and a light colored long sleeved shirt (winter, you know ;) ) with no logos and nothing that could possibly jingle. And no change in my pockets. I took one the first night out with a 12 gauge. When with them a few times mostly to try different rifles and cartridges.

Next guy I went out with suggested I wear some arctic camo if I had it. I assured him I didn't have any arctic camo. :rolleyes: He said that light colors would work almost just as well.

Just my experience.

Art Eatman
May 21, 2003, 09:34 AM
Rojo, I'm far more likely to be wearing khakis when hunting than to be wearing jeans. However, I have had a fox walk up to my boot toe, and had a couple of does pass by within ten or fifteen feet and not notice my Levis' color. That's part of my reasoning that motion is more important than color.

Note I originally commented, "Dull color." IMO, some cloth and some colors would (I think) stand out even in a world of grays. Light yellow or white come to mind, of course.

Dunno 'bout animals, but I've noticed that a walking hunter in camo stands out more, to my eyes, than does a walking hunter in khakis.

To really get on my soapbox and rant, I think that there's just a whole bunch of hype in peddling these over-priced camo costumes. (I'm highly in favor of them for the turkey hunter in particular, and they'd be just fine for the dove and duck hunter. And I realize that many of those folks hunt deer.) I've just been too close to too many deer and coyotes who never knew I was there, and I was wearing old, originally-cheap khakis or jeans. I gotta shake my head over the deer-only hunter who dumps a ton of money into the latest new "better than before" camo. To me, that's as dumb as believing new-car hype.

:), Art

sm
May 21, 2003, 01:01 PM
re: camo
I equate to fishing lures, most are to catch fishermen.

Dull, earth tones, are what I use. Still like the old burlap toe sack to break an outline, or to cover my jeans in the middle of a Dove field. OH I went back to my old Clear Bushnell avaitor shooting glasses for hunting.. I quit using the yellow or my vermillion skeet ones...man those sometimes glint and show up from afar to much for me... these new fangled shooting glasses are worse...and too rich for my blood. IMO

BevrFevr
May 21, 2003, 06:37 PM
Yes, I did it once when I was a kid just to do it but as an adult I can't seem to find a reason.

Are all of you sheep herders or chicken ranchers or something? Or do you do it for the skins? Is there a market for coyote fur still?

Hey, to each there own, and please don't take offense at the sheep thing. I'm just wondering what the attraction is. I don't look down on ya just trying to understand ya.

-bevr

Art Eatman
May 21, 2003, 06:56 PM
BevrFevr, I can only speak for myself, okay? First off, I like to hunt. Next, I like to control the general number of predators around my "private stock" of quail. :) I like to have a couple of bobcats around, just on general principles. If I learn there are more, I might shoot one if I can. I like to have a coyote family around so I can listen to them yip and yodel. When it starts sounding like three families or more, out comes the rabbit-call.

Now, some areas seem overloaded with yodel dogs, and somebody who's been losing kids, lambs or chickens to them is commonly happy for some help.

Insofar as the deer population in my area, predation in general is a serious problem. Mountain lions as well as coyotes...And then factor in our ongoing drouth that began ten years back.

But trying to kill every coyote in the countryside, just for the fun of it, doesn't strike me as a worthwhile endeavor...

Art

BevrFevr
May 21, 2003, 07:08 PM
We have diminshed Quail here too but it's due to TOO many Hawks! And they are protected I think. I see why farmers used to shoot em. Also habitat destruction is to blame.

Working to maintain a balance is a positive benefit of hunting for sure. I just got the feeling from reading this like it was some kind of fad or something.

Thanks for the insight.

-bevr

El Rojo
May 21, 2003, 10:01 PM
Why do I hunt coyotes? I enjoy it. It creates adrenaline having a coyote running up to feet of where you are laying. It is a challenge to shoot a coyote a hundred yards away (sometimes a disappointing one, even though it shouldn't be). If you want rational reasons, it is for predator control. Now I go out and try to shoot as many as I can. Why? Because I understand they will never be wiped out. Coyotes are too smart and there are always plenty of them around. I also shoot coyotes as a means to get on rancher's good side. You would be surprised how getting permission to hunt coyotes on a private ranch, often leads to being able to hunt other game on that same limited access ranch. The key is to bringing a truck bed with 4-8 coyotes back after a day of coyote calling. That way the rancher knows you mean business and you want to hunt coyotes and not screw around.

Art I accept your theory and real life situations dealing with camo colors. Problem is, explaining it to my dad will not fly and there is no point in trying to teach the old dog new tricks. Plus there is some fun in getting cammoed up.

BevrFevr
May 22, 2003, 01:33 PM
I still remember the rush I got from calling in the one and only coyote I've hunted. Used the rabbit in distress call. Single shot .22's, me and my bud, early morning on a steep stream bank. He comes running up the gulley. Three shots(two hits)and it was all over. We musta packed it out three miles.

As to the fact that there is a never ending supply of coyotes it sounds alot like the buffalo. Can you imagine the natural resource we pissed away on that one. Every American family could have supplied themselves with free buffalo meat for all eternity with conservative minded hunting. But not anymore.

Kill all the predators and we will be up to our arses in rodents, just like Australia. Or even like Texas. Round up every rattlesnake you can find for years and years and then look up and say "Where in the hell did all these Damned Prairie dogs come from?".

Climbing down off my soapbox.

Anyhoo, I appreciate the feedback. Thanks

-bevr

Art Eatman
May 22, 2003, 01:54 PM
When you stop and remember that the combined efforts of hunters, hunters in helicopters, traps, and "Game-getters" with 1080 poison couldn't eradicate coyotes in sheep-ranch country, I wouldn't worry too much about Ol' Wiley.

150 years back, he was mostly a "prairie wolf", seen mostly west of the Mississippi River and on to the Rocky Mountains. Nowadays, he's in all the lower 48 states.

You call in a coyote with a rabbit call and miss your shot, and you'll probably never get that coyote or his family to ever come close to that call, ever again. They're quick learners, and pretty good teachers of their young.

Any sort of halfway-fair hunting, and you can be as bloodthirsty as you want. You'll never do more than put a small dent in the population: Sooner or later, they'll get smarter about the game than you are.

:), Art

El Rojo
May 23, 2003, 02:26 AM
Yeah it is crazy how many coyotes are shot every year and yet they are always there. I have heard of the helicopter and plane guys going out and getting like 60 coyotes in a day! They are like ground squirrels. My dad and I have shot up to about 100 squirrels in a day. They always come back. Varmints are much different than big game. I would never want to see them disappear. What would I hunt then?

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