Springfield Mil Spec, Marking primers


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RH822
October 30, 2006, 07:32 PM
I have a Springfield Mil spec 1911 that I normally carry "cocked n locked". But over the past six months or so I have developed a habit while working outside or in the garage to carry it hammer down on a loaded chamber. Why? I don't know, just have. Today I noticed that the round that was in the chamber has a very shallow, slightly off center mark on the primer. The first round (normally chambered) in my spare magazine has the identical mark. The ammunition is made by Black Hills and this is the first time I have ever noticed this mark on the primer of any brand of ammo I have used. The pistol functions fine and alway has.
Has anyone else noticed this primer mark with their 1911. Should I be worried or should I just stick to cocked n locked and not worry about it.

No, I did not drop or bump while working.

Thanks for your input.
RH

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critter
October 30, 2006, 07:49 PM
Others will be along soon. The 1911 SHOULD NOT be carried with a chambered round and hammer down. ESPECIALLY ones without the firing pin lock. A hard jar CAN set off the round either from impact of the firing pin alone or from the impact of the hammer on the firing pin. In a rare case of a too-long firing pin, that could be VERY EASY to do.

Cocked and locked is the way to go!

Ala Dan
October 30, 2006, 08:14 PM
Can you say:

The 1911 is designed too be carried in condition
1; and that is "COCKED AND LOCKED WITH A ROUND CHAMBERED~!:D

RH822
October 30, 2006, 08:39 PM
Thank you, My question has been answered.

RH

Old Fuff
October 30, 2006, 10:25 PM
If your pistol was a true Browning design I would point out that it was indeed designed to be safe if carried with the hammer all of the way down on a loaded chamber. This of course may start a flame war, but I'm ready to take on all comers... :evil: :D

It is true that if the pistol is dropped on the muzzle against a hard surface the firing pin in theory can bounce forward under its own momentum, but this is unlikely if the firing pin spring is up to USGI standards. The pin itself is shorter then the tunnel it rides in so the front does not rest against the primer of a chambered round. Colt made Browning's first military automatic in 1900, and did not incorporate a safety lock (manual safety) until 3 months before the 1911 pistol was adopted by the Army. He still didn't believe it needed a safety, but the Army insisted... Coltís continued to make a .38 pistol without any manual or grip safety until about 1928. :what:

But life is never simple. Springfield Armory mucked up this design with one of their own so that it would pass a drop test required by California. There have been problems reported about it. :(

So unless you are willing to convert your Springfield Armory back to the original Colt system I would recommend that you carry it cocked & locked, or hammer down on an empty chamber.

XavierBreath
October 30, 2006, 11:38 PM
Springfield Armory mucked up this design with one of their own so that it would pass a drop test required by California. There have been problems reported about it.
What problems have been reported Fuff?

The Springfield uses a titanium .38 Super firing pin. It has no firing pin safety. I haven't heard of any problems. What problems have been reported?

This of course may start a flame war, but I'm ready to take on all comers... I'm still waiting for the sources cited in this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2776380). At least the name of the publications would be helpful.

RH822, has the firing pin on your pistol ever been replaced? None of the firing pins on any of my three Springfields protrudes past the breechface with the hammer down. I'm not sure why your firing pin would protrude, unless the channel needs cleaning badly, or unless it was replaced with a firing pin that was to long.

Old Fuff
October 31, 2006, 08:59 AM
I'm out in left field in the middle of nowhere... :what:

But anyway, I seem to remember at least one previous thread concerning Springfield Armory pistols marking the primer, and it was attributed to the firing pin/spring design.

Time - X-Breath - time... And I have a lot of other things that have to get done before snow flies...

I'm where my books ain't, and besides my poor fingers don't type so well anymore. Thus I haven written a 10-page summary about why John Browning did what he did. His firing pin system was explained in the patent that covered it. Also you can't get around the fact that Colt's made a series of .38 automatics from 1900 to (about - I don't have my books) 1928 that had neither a manual safety lock nor grip safety! We are supposed to believe they were carried cocked and unlocked? :scrutiny:

The first Colt .38 (model 1900) did have a mechanical safety of sorts. The rear sight could be moved to block the firing pin. But in 1902 they dropped it, and they never replaced it with anything else. Obviously it was considered to be unnecessary given the mode of carry at the time.

Thanks to the Army the 1911 design had both. But habit being habit, many users continued to carry the big .45 the same way they had done with the previous .38's, and none of this left us with a history of unintended discharges - at least in enough numbers to show up in reports and books of that day (1900 - 1940).

Following World War One and Two, as well as Korea, the Army had plenty of opportunity to incorporate a positive firing pin lock or block if they thought it was needed - and they did nothing. They also refused to buy the Swartz (sp?) firing pin safety when Colt incorporated it into their commercial production in the late 1930's. Brazil also passed on getting the safety.

All of this was because it was a non-issue.

XavierBreath
October 31, 2006, 09:09 AM
Following World War One and Two, as well as Korea, the Army had plenty of opportunity to incorporate a positive firing pin lock or block if they thought it was needed - and they did nothing. They also refused to buy the Swartz (sp?) firing pin safety when Colt incorporated it into their commercial production in the late 1930's. Brazil also passed on getting the safety.Fuff, I'm not suggesting that a firing pin safety is a good thing, or that Browning wanted or designed one into the 1911.

I am stating that the Springfield does not have a firing pin safety. The Springfield 1911 sells in California because it passed the drop tests. It passed the drop tests with a lighter titanium firing pin that has less inertia when dropped. The design is the same, the materials used are different.

I fail to see how this mucks up the design of the 1911 as you stated. What problems have been reported?

I'm where my books ain't, and besides my poor fingers don't type so well anymore. Thus I haven written a 10-page summary about why John Browning did what he did.I'm not asking for you to mail a book, or for you to write a ten page summary. I'm just asking for a source to support your contention, that I can reference myself.

beachjumper
October 31, 2006, 10:52 AM
RH:
I guess it's better to be safe than sorry; but why do you carry outside of the house or garage? I carry concealed when I mow the lawn. I have a corner lot so it takes me over two hours a mow with a push type mower every 6 days. I do it to help break in my IWB holsters. Mitch Rosen makes very fine products but they take some wearing to break them in to my taste. I have recently bought a MilSpec and use a Galco open top holster designed to be carried unconcealed. It's called the "training holster" and I use it at the range. It is expensive but very well made and will surely outlive me. I'm in the "cocked and locked" school of carry with this pistol; better to be safe than sorry as one great man once said. :-}

beachjumper
October 31, 2006, 10:57 AM
P.S.
GO GATORS!!!!!!

Onmilo
October 31, 2006, 11:07 AM
Man I keep telling people that if they are not willing to carry a 1911 or a Browning Hi-Power in condition one, chamber loaded and cocked with safety engaged, then they have one of two options.
1.Carry Israeli style, chamber empty.
2.Find another handgun to carry.
These are the ONLY three options for safely carrying a 1911 or Browning type handgun.

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