[curt]

A couple of folks recently commented on the heel release of a new mousegun and got me to wondering. Which is better? I've always been a fan of the thumb operated release on bigger guns but my NAA guardian has me wondering if it might not be more susceptable to inadvertant release than a heel. At any rate it doesn't seem to have any advantage since i won't be speed reloading my guardian while fending off ninja hordes.

So my question is , for those of you who have small HG with a heel release do you like it or not?

[10-Ring]

It will really depend on how much training you'l put into using it. I wouldn't call it good or bad, just different.

[sm]

I've had a couple, I have shot others. I don't like them, but I'm biased and boring. I grew up with 1911 style and just prefer the location of the release. Yeah I resist change in some things.

Mike, Tamara, others...I've wondered about the heel release. So I'll show my ignorance, and ask. Is the Heel release based on design only,( works for the size of gun per se) a preference of the designer, or what a 'country' prefers?

[agony]

Some european countries, especially those in colder climates tend had, in the past favored heel-release pistols. Due to gloved hands possibly releasing an american styled release unintentionally. Hence, a lot of the surplus SIG 220 and 225s are seen in the heel-release version.

[DonGlock26]

I have a heel release on my P232 and I don't find it to be a big deal. I find that single stack mag loading to be harder than loading a double stack mag is more of an issue. The heel release is an advantage with an IWB gun because the mag release won't be accidentally pressed. This could be a problem with a mag safety pistol i.e. S&W,BHP.

[Caseless]

Heel-type for carry. Button-type is good for competition.
However, I actually prefer the paddle-type release on my USP 40 over anythng else.

[Standing Wolf]

I don't care for magazine releases at the bottom of the grip frame. My High Standards have the release at the front bottom of the frame, and my Browning Medalist has it at the back. If magazine releases were supposed to be down there, John Moses Browning would have put them there.

[Ala Dan]

While I prefer the "American" style magazine release,
the first SIG's imported had the "heel" type release.
It wasn't a problem, so I guess its whatever one gets
use to!:rolleyes: :) :uhoh:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[cool45auto]

Not really bad, just awkward. They'll take some getting used to after using the button-type one for so long.

[444]

I own a few guns with a heel mag release and have previously owned a Sig 220 that had it also.
I personally consider it bad, but that is just me. The vast majority of my serious handgun training has been with a standard American mag release. All my serious guns have a standard American mag release. The guns I have with the heel mounted mag release are just plinkers.
I suppose if you are the type of guy that buys one handgun and seeks to master it, it wouldn't be a problem. But I would think it would have to be slower to do a mag change since it basically takes two hands. With the regular release, you can drop the mag with your firing hand and be grabbing another mag at the same time.

[kbellis3]

The heel release was used on the Walther P-38 out of a concern for magazine loss under combat conditions. During WWI the German ran into a problem with the P-08 (Luger), the problem was that button release on the P-08 allowed for troops to preform emergency reloads (release mag insert loaded mag) as opposses to tactical reloads. :eek:

Now I don't think trench war is a concern to most Americans who have CCW's, :what: nor is the loss of a magazine due to a protrusion in the holster activating the push button mag release (that is assuming the holster is properly made.) :(

Understanding the major reason for the exsistance of the heel-catch (preventing magazine loss) on some firearms. While on other firearms the gloves situtaion. You should at the same time recognizing the problems that the heel-catch has: the inability to perform lighting quick emergency reloads, and the increased difficulty of performed one handed reloads. This should give you more things to think about when deciding whether or not to buy a gun with the Euro heel-catch magazine release.

Finally, if you look at some firearms with the heel-catch setup you will notice that heel-catch is so recessed into the frame/grip assembley that it is hard to find and release the heel-catch under ideal conditions let alone life and death situations. :cuss:

Kyle

[444]

Another thing to consider is that when the Germans were using that heel mag release on the P38, we had been using the 1911 for years with the mag release in the standard location. I have never heard of people losing mags. I know that I have never had my mag release in the holster.
And we have used the 1911 in pretty much any climate, and I assume that they were being used with gloves.

[denfoote]

Guns I own with heel release:

Pistolet Makarova

Walther P38

Walther P5

I carried Pistolet Makarova for years before I got a gun with the button release!! I kinda like it!! :D

[jmbg29]

I think that if one needs to speed reload one's mousey gun, one is already screwed.

[444]

I guess that IS what he was asking about.

I was referring to guns such as the Sig 220, Walther P38, CZ52, etc. with the mag change comment.

[curt]

Seems like what i'm hearing here is that the heel type release may be more resistant to accidently activation but is possibly slower on the reload.

Then i guess i can conclude that for a full size gun the heel release may be at a disadvantage due to slow reload speeds. For a very small gun such as a seecamp or guardian its probably not as much an issue since the gun is so small that you have to do quite a bit of manipulation to get the mag out, fish the new mag out of your pocket etc and so its resistance to accidently release may be more of a factor.

I posed this question cause some folks were commenting about the rohrbor (SP?) 9mm that may be coming out having the heel release. I personally have had a bias towards the button release basically cause i decided long ago it was best and never readdressed it. I think i now like the heel release better for a very small gun.

[Majic]

On my High-Standard when you your thumb and forefinger to operate the heeled mag release the mag drops right into your hand. Now while that may slow down a fast reload of a empty mag, it is great for a tactical reload.

Action games shooting it will slow you down.

General shooting it doesn't matter as time is not an element.

Defensive situations it's most likely a mute point as very few shots are actually fired.

[GSB]

Not good or bad. You wouldn't want to try IPSC with one, but I've gotten plenty fast with the Sig P232. The main downside is that there's really no way to drop a mag with one hand, and you really can't do a proper tactical reload (unless somebody's come up with a technique I haven't found). That's a tactical disadvantage if you are an experienced tactical shooter, but it won't make much difference to the average gun owner.

[Handy]

I sometimes shoot a P9S with a heel release in IDPA matches, so I really put some effort into mag changes.

Tac reloads or mag retention reloads are just as fast. It's a good system if you are trying to hang onto your mags.


Slide lock reloads are slower, but not terrible. It's similar to the difference in speed between slingshotting the slide or using the slide release lever. It just adds an extra beat while you tear out old mag.


I certainly prefer non-heel releases, especially the P7/USP/P99 type. But the heel release button (PSP, Walther P5) or lever type of heel release is entirely workable, especially if you aren't gaming.

I certainly wouldn't pass up an otherwise excellent pistol for this reason. If you want to go old school, both the old Sig 22X and Beretta 92s had this set up as well. Thumb buttons were mainly found in Browning guns and those that emulated the design (Tok, Radom, Star) until more recently.

[GSB]

Tac reloads or mag retention reloads are just as fast.

Can you explain how to do a tac reload with the heal release? I haven't figured out a way.

[Handy]

Well, the reload with retention is easier (thumb on release, index curled base pad nose), but I'll have to go home and play with my P9S to figure out how I do the true tac reload.

The main problem with tac reloads is juggling two mags, which is a pain with any gun. It's at least easier with single column mags.

[tiberius]

The Colt style button release is the best for full size service pistols, but the heel release is superior for mouse guns since it helps keep them thin and are less easily accidentaly activated. I wish the KT P-32 had a heel release.

[blades67]

I don't mind a heel release on a pocket gun. I don't like them on competition guns because they make reloads slower for me.

[Handy]

GSB,

Tac reload:

Draw your fresh with the toe pointed forward, and sticking out of your palm almost perpendicular. Hold it with the two bottom fingers and the base plate wedged into your lower palm. With your thumb, push the mag release back or in while pulling on the mag toe with the index finger. Use index, middle and thumb to hold it as it comes free. Move your hand left and rotate out to line up the fresh with the well. Push up, release the last fingers and seat with the palm.

I just tried it again on external (P9S) and recessed (P5) guns, no problem.

[modifiedbrowning]

Mine don't bother me too much, just different from button. I have a HK P9S and a Walther P5 that have the heel release.

[WonderNine]

IMO heel release on a small pocket sized gun = sometimes good

On a full sized gun = very bad and much slower

[1911Tuner]

Admittedly a little awkward for a fast reload, but the engagement
is sturdier and more positive. There are a couple of schools of
thought on the necessity for a fast reload, and while the heel-catch is doable with practice, is it necessary, since in the vast
majority of shootings are over within 5 rounds expended on
both sides? In other words: If you haven't solved your problem
with what's in the magazine, it ain't likely that you will be able to
solve it without God's help.

But...I'm a traditionalist and an advocate of taking advantage
of every break offerd. I vote nay on the heel catch.

Just my nickel's worth...
Tuner