Internal vs external extractors?


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Tidewater Tom
October 31, 2006, 12:08 AM
I have a Kimber Custom Shop CDPII ( 3 years old) and basically love it. It has an external extractor which recently broke. Kimber got me a replacement part for free in 3 days (cool). In discussions w/ Kimber they said that if I sent them my gun they would replace the entire upper slide w/ an internal extractor slide assembly.

At a match last weekend I asked some folks if they knew of any differences between internal & external extractors. Many said they have heard that more and more builders are going to externals because they are more durable.

So my question is, should I send Kimber my gun so they can install an internal extractor or leave well enough along?
:confused:

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lycanthrope
October 31, 2006, 12:23 AM
Well....many guns use the external extractor and find it more durable.

Kimber, however, has had issues with theirs. On one model locally they installed an internal (totally new slide) on a gun that continued to malfunction (4" Eclipse). I saw it sent back 3x. On another (Team Match) they sent it back , but it continued to stall rounds on the ramp and cracked the slide at the rear near the extractor tunnel. Later model Team Match guns had the tunnel milled out.

Myself, I prefer an Aftec (spring loaded internal) for my guns. If it were me, I'd go internal if it were their dime. They don't offer a new slide if there aren't some issues.....

Sir Aardvark
October 31, 2006, 12:32 AM
Well... when all is said and done, it will most likely boil down to your own personal preference.

I, myself, would lean towards the internal extractor due to the fact that I'm a purist at heart and Browning's design has worked exceedingly fine since my granddad's time.

If you want the definitive word on internal vs. external extractors, you will need to view what 1911Tuner has said on the subject, since he has all knowledge of 1911-type handguns.

Here's a thread you should look at:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=23697&highlight=external+extractors

1911 guy
October 31, 2006, 08:43 AM
Just my honest opinion. I had one pistol, 1911 pattern, with an external extractor. It took flight during a range session.

A properly made internal extractor, used properly, will "outlast the competition" as they say. Tempered spring steel and not jumping the rim (load from a magazine) are the keys to success.

Zach S
October 31, 2006, 09:08 AM
I think S&W uses the wilson external, which I think is a copy of caspian external, that I think Dan Wesson uses...

So, in a nutshell, I prefer the internal because all i have to keep up with is if its series 80 or not, and there are plenty of aftermarket suppliers, my prefered one is the Wilson Combat Bulletproof. Tuner favors (well, last I read he favored) the Ed Brown Hardcore. I may give it a try the next time I need to replace one, i didnt know about it when I had to replace whatever that piece of crap was that Para stuck in my companion. It looked like an extractor, but it didnt work like one.

Personally, I think the external extractors caught on because manufacturers are too lazy to properly tune the internals, kimber just jumped on the bandwagon. Oddly enough, I didnt hear about extractor problems with kimber untill they went with externals.

lee n. field
October 31, 2006, 09:20 AM
Why is an external extractor so problematic for the 1911? Almost every other autoloader has an external extractor, with few problems.

jmorris
October 31, 2006, 09:28 AM
if it's not broke.... The external extractor on my Hi powers work great, but I don't have any on my 1911's. I haven't seen any S&W's have problems, but I have seen more than a few Kimbers loose parts. It would have more value to me if it were internal.

45R
October 31, 2006, 09:38 AM
I personally like the internal extractor version but its really up to you. How well does the gun with the new extractor and how problematic has it been for you?

JoeHatley
October 31, 2006, 11:50 AM
I think S&W uses the wilson external, which I think is a copy of caspian external, that I think Dan Wesson uses...

I'm not sure of his exact age, but I think S&W has been using their own external extractors for longer than Bill Wilson has been alive... ;)

Joe

Dr. Dickie
October 31, 2006, 12:50 PM
Well, the internal extractor still works flawlessly on my 1918 M1911.
I'll let you know when it wears out:evil:

DogBonz
October 31, 2006, 01:17 PM
Well....many guns use the external extractor and find it more durable

I agree, but most of these guns were designed with external extractors.


While external extractors are more durable, in a 1911, I prefer an internal extractor. JMB designed it this way, and I for one, trust JMB. As long as you check the tension every now and again, and replace when needed, you will not have any problems. I have thousands of rounds through a Colt WWII vintage 1911A1 (that has had God-only-knows how many rounds through it before I got my hands on it), and for all I know, it still has the original extractor in it, and I have never had an issue with it.

Jim Watson
October 31, 2006, 03:53 PM
I think S&W uses the wilson external, which I think is a copy of caspian external, that I think Dan Wesson uses...

I'm not sure of his exact age, but I think S&W has been using their own external extractors for longer than Bill Wilson has been alive...

S&W uses two different external extractors on their 1911 mutants.
The standard model uses an extractor similar to the one on their long time DA autos, the PC gun uses one similar to if not identical to Wilson. S&W has used Wilson parts before.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
October 31, 2006, 04:15 PM
I'm not fixing what's not broken. The external extractor in my Kimber works flawlessly. I must have ten different brands of brass in the bucket and that claw pulls'em all out so they can go flying. I own 1911's with internal extractors too. They work great also. After thousands of rounds, I've never broken either design, shooting light bullseye loads, or heavy lead at bowling pins. As for slides breaking. This is purely a slide design or metalurgy flaw. Don't blame the extractor. MIM parts come more to mind than anything. And with several pistola's available, there are just as many aftermarket outlets that offer certain replacement parts of higher quality than that which came with said pistola.

A broken extractor is a broken extractor. Internal or external. They do break. One may break a slight amount more often than the other. Replace it with a higher quality part. You'll be happy.

-Steve

wally
October 31, 2006, 10:43 PM
I prefer the internal simply because its so easy to replace if it should break -- no pins and small spring to contend with, available from a host of makers, whereas the externals you pretty much have only a single source for replacements.

If you've never broken a gun, you just ain't shooting enough!

Both accumulate crud that eventually causes failures thus will need to be disassembled and cleaned, again IMHO a pretty large win for the internal in the disassembley/reassembly department.

--wally.

Zach S
November 3, 2006, 07:41 AM
I'm not sure of his exact age, but I think S&W has been using their own external extractors for longer than Bill Wilson has been alive... I dont know how old he is either, but up to a few years ago (2003?), the closest S&W came to a 1911 was the Model 945;)

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