plated bullets and .45s


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bender
October 31, 2006, 09:09 AM
I have an old colt M1911 (from 1922) that I don't want to shoot anymore. I recently bought a Ruger P345. The Ruger shoots my 230gr FMJ RN bullets just fine. However, it usually jams when I shoot my Rainier bullets.

At first, I thought it might be because I started out with light loads with the Rainiers (5.3gr Unique). I thought it might need "stiffer" loads to cycle the action properly. So next time I loaded some Rainiers with 6.4gr of Unique. Still a jam in each mag.

I don't mind shooting FMJ RN bullets out of my ruger, but I want to load plated bullets (rainier & berrys) also. I want another .45... a full-size M1911 one.

I was wanting an XD-45 but its a little out of my price range. I'm thinking about the Rock Island 5" M1911 for $350. I was wondering how these handle Rainier or berrys bullets, or in fact... any bullets...

I reload everything I shoot and I'd like to stick to plated bullets, or hard-cast for my .45s.... except with the Ruger which seems to need FMJ...

thanks for any comments on the RIA. I know there's an RIA thread going, but I didn't see that the plated bullet issue had been addressed yet...

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TonyT
October 31, 2006, 09:18 AM
Don't know why the plated bullets should not function in the guns you mentioned. However, I have only used plated Rainier and Berry's bullets in my Sig 2220 Sport, Pardini GT-45, Colt National Match, Springfield Trophy Match, S&W 645 & S&W 945. I have only been able to obtain bullseye level accuracy with the rainier 200 gr. SWC. Foir steel plates and action pistol or revolver shooting I like either the 185 gr. Berry's HBRN or either company's 230 gr. bullet.

Steve in PA
October 31, 2006, 09:23 AM
Define jam.

My Sig P-220 loves anything its fed and for the last three years or so all my practice ammo has been reloaded with Rainiers. No problem or issues.

rbernie
October 31, 2006, 09:26 AM
Check the OAL of the reloads. The Ranier FP and HP bullets have a very 'squared' profile and can't be seated out as far as you might seat a more traditional RN bullet. I have had operational issues with several Sigs, for example, seating the Ranier 230gp HPs out to 1.25". I shoot about 800 rounds per month of Ranier 230gr HPs over 5gr Bullseye seated to an OAL of 1.2". It cycles thru my CZ97s, my Sig 220s/245s, and my 1911's without a bobble.

Of course, if you're shooting the Ranier RN offerings then none of this really matters and I don't have a clue as to why they wouldn't work in your Ruger.

SDC
October 31, 2006, 09:27 AM
Define jam.

Ditto; what's happening when it "jams"? Is it not feeding a round completely into battery, is it having failures-to-fire when IN battery, is it stovepiping on ejection, etc.?

bender
October 31, 2006, 10:53 AM
Ditto; what's happening when it "jams"? Is it not feeding a round completely into battery,
yes, that is what is happening. Its not completely chambering a round, and is slightly out of battery... I have to pull the slide back to eject the round. The round usually has a nick or dent on the edge of the flat nose... There have been no stovepipes or failures to fire yet...

the rainiers I've been using are the 200gr SWCs. I can try seating them slightly lower, however I am already real close to the edge where they start angling towards the flat point.

I have just received an order of 500 berrys... the ones that have round sides and a flat nose. I think they're 200gr. Maybe they'll feed better.

I have seen a few other posts around here in the last couple months where members mention that their P345s don't work well with Rainiers... so I don't seem to be the only one...

the point of this thread, is not just "why's my ruger P345 not liking my rainier reloads...", the point of this thread is also about recommendations for another .45, M1911 style, that positevely shoots rainiers, berrys, or hard cast bullets without problems... I would like to pick up a RIA 5" 1911 for $350, if I knew that it would eat my ammo better than my Ruger...

JoeHatley
October 31, 2006, 11:46 AM
rainiers I've been using are the 200gr SWCs

I use the same bullet in all my .45 acp guns. I use an OAL of 1.26 with the Rainier and 4.5 grains Bullseye.

the point of this thread is also about recommendations for another .45, M1911 style, that positevely shoots rainiers, berrys, or hard cast bullets without problems...

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~hatley/sw1911_sf.jpg

My SW1911 shoots well with my Rainier re-loads, and any other bullet I've tried. It's going to be about double your price point, but you may want to take a look anyway. It's a great value...

Joe

bender
October 31, 2006, 11:52 AM
I use the same bullet in all my .45 acp guns. I use an OAL of 1.26
IIRC, I think my first few were 1.23, then I went down slightly to 1.21 for the last few. I only loaded 10 rounds with rainiers, just to test out the gun. got a jam in the first mag (on the last round).

I have an order of 500 of the 185gr Rainiers that I have not tried yet. I also have 500 of the berrys 200gr "RS" bullets that I have not tried yet.

railroader
October 31, 2006, 02:00 PM
Bender, have tried taking you barrel out of your ruger and dropping some of your berry reloads in the chamber to see how they fit. The reason I ask is because when I reload 45acp rounds sometimes I get a slight bulge in the case which makes them fit tight in my 45's. My cure is a Lee factory crimp die. It crimps the bullet but also resizes the finished round down to factory specs so they drop right into the chamber. I make my ammo with my 3 dies with out the crimp then I run all my rounds through the crimp die. Works great. Mark

http://www.fmreloading.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FMR&Product_Code=90864&Category_Code=Lee+Pistol+Crimp+Dies

bender
October 31, 2006, 02:31 PM
have tried taking you barrel out of your ruger and dropping some of your berry reloads in the chamber to see how they fit
I think I did but I'm not sure. I'll try it tonight. I've reloaded Rainiers, but have not tried any of my Berrys yet.

I notice that Berrys says their .45 bullets are .452, whereas Rainiers are .451.

As mentioned above, when a rainier round doesn't chamber, I usually see a dent or nick on the edge of the flat nose. So it seems like they are not feeding in smoothly, because they are hitting something. I don't think Rainier makes "ball" .45 bullets, but Berrys does... maybe those will work better.

railroader
October 31, 2006, 04:42 PM
http://www.bearcreeksupply.com/ Here's some 230 grain moly coated round nose bullets that shoot well. Orders over $70 are shipped free. Mark

bender
October 31, 2006, 04:52 PM
I've never loaded lead bullets, but those are great prices... especially with free shipping on orders over $70.

are these bullets the ones I would want:

http://www.pathfindersports.com/p/pathfindersports/default.asp?SID=x8MQL3C43EPLUW79U4LAX5&S=503&A=E&PKV=bcs45acp-230rn|0

what does moly-coated mean... what are they coated with ? If I load up thousands of them, and then store some for a long time... does this coating "dry up" or something?

sorry... never worked with lead bullets before... :confused:

SDC
October 31, 2006, 06:10 PM
It SOUNDS like these rounds haven't been fully resized, so probably the easiest solution would be to use the Factory Crimp Die, as suggested; this'll make sure that they'll at least chamber properly.

Babalouie
October 31, 2006, 06:25 PM
I've used rainier bullets for my uspsa Limited in .40 When I first got into ipsc shooting and started loading I was advised to load long ocl. Once I did I had no more feeding problems...now number over 13K rounds w/o a ftf! So, you may try loading some long and seeing if that helps.

railroader
October 31, 2006, 07:27 PM
Bender, I mainly load only lead bullets for my 45's. As for loading them nothing is different, the lead bullets usually have ring of grease for lubrication. I use Lee carbide dies. Lead bullets tend to be smokier than the plated because of the grease lube. I will start to get light leading in my barrels after awhile (100's of rounds) I will clean the barrel then shoot a few fmj rounds through it and it will take the little bit of leading out. If you want really cheap lead bullets here's some 230 grain round nose lead bullets for $49 per 1000 shipped. You can get them in soft or hard cast, lubed or not, and moly coated. I like his hard cast lubed. This guy is busy so it can take a month for your order. http://www.northeastbullet.com/
Mark

bender
October 31, 2006, 09:10 PM
I may try northeast. There was a thread around here about members having problems with northeast (slow - as you just said).

Does this "lube" dry up over the years. I mean, if I load up 1000s of rounds and store some for a couple years... do they "dry up" or something?

railroader
October 31, 2006, 09:34 PM
Truthfully I'm not sure exactly the purpose of the lube if it is to lube the case when loading or to lube the barrel and I don't know about the lube drying up. As for slow delivery the guy at northeast was moving to a new building and was adding manufacturing capacity so it got him behind on his orders this summer. Things might be better now. Mark

Khornet
November 1, 2006, 06:16 AM
of Rainier 185 bullets with that truncated cone shape, I've found that they do tend to "tip up" a little on feeding and get hung up on the rim of the flat point if your OAL isn't right for that particular gun. When I've found the right OAL they have worked fine in my Para, P90, and S&W 1911 Sc.

I can feel the nose of the bullet nudging into place as I release the slide on a full mag; sort of a little extra "bump" compared to, say, a hardball bullet.

That said, they are economical practice bullets and I've gotten great accuracy from them. Carry bullets they ain't.

abarth
November 1, 2006, 08:12 AM
+1 on OAL. I shot 500 rds of Rainier 200gr RN, mine jam on the 1st round. The OAL was 1.24", then it was lower to 1.235" and the problem went away. So lenghten or shorten your OAL and see if it fix the jam problem.

LeadPumper
November 1, 2006, 08:25 AM
I've got a few boxes of West Coast 200 gr plated SWC, and getting them to feed in my Kimber has been a chore. But once I got the right OAL, they ran fine. Only problem is they won't run in any other gun at that length!

Some guns are very picky with SWC OAL, if you must use SWC you're going to have to 'experiment' to find what your gun likes.

As an alternative, Rainier makes a fine 200 gr plated RN that works well in all my .45s at the same OAL.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=736484

Good luck,

-LeadPumper

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