Need some scope wisdom from an experienced shooter.


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chutchis
November 1, 2006, 06:59 PM
Below is a picture of my three shot groups today in windy conditions. II just got my scope back from NIKON (6.5-20X44 Monarch). I had sent it in because it was not grouping at 20X. Looks like it is doing the same thing. I called NIKON again and they told me that it must be my fault. So is this my fault or is it the scopes? I shot groups at 16X and then at 20X...see pic below. Thanks

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL233/742329/1276386/201062431.jpg

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chutchis
November 1, 2006, 07:03 PM
Oh yeah, the gun is a RRA AR-15 24" 1:8 twist BB in .223. Shooting OAL of 2.269 with 69g Sierra Match King bullet and 24.3g Varget. I was shooting off a regular Calwell shooting bag with about a 15mph cross wind. I think I found the right load.

BsChoy
November 1, 2006, 07:27 PM
I would have to agree with Nikon...could be mirage at at 20x doing it...what are the temps like where you are shooting? Might even be the load...but I would say there might be some operator error involved

chutchis
November 1, 2006, 07:40 PM
It's 38 degrees with a WNW wind at 25mph here in Pierre, SD. If it's operator error then I'm just fine with using the scope at 16X (20X is overkill anyway, if I'd of known better when I bought the scope I would have went for a lower power but I guess you have to learn somehow)

.41Dave
November 2, 2006, 05:00 PM
You mentioned windy conditions. Given that the shots are strung horizontally, could it be the crosswind giving you trouble? I'd try again on a calm day and see if I still had trouble.

Mute
November 2, 2006, 05:36 PM
Not knowing your shooting skill level, perhaps you can find a shooter whom you know to be capable of shooting very tight groups and have him shoot your rifle. If he gets similar results there is a good chance that it's indeed the scope that is the culprit.

chutchis
November 2, 2006, 07:32 PM
I just have a hard time believing that I can put three shots in there at .374 inches on 16X then one minute later on 20X have a 1.3 inch group. The wind was constant not gusty (I would have waited but I had to get out there ASAP and try out the repaired scope). NIKON stated that I should go back and sight it in at 20X then see what happens. I have a Model 70 22-250 with McGowen barrel and a 6.5-20X Alsakan Guide Scope from Cabella's on it and it shoots the same groups no matter what power it is set to. I think the scope stinks and I should have paid the extra $100 and got the Luepold.

.41Dave
November 2, 2006, 07:53 PM
This may be a little OT, but at what range are you shooting that you want 20x or even 16x magnification? In my experience, a lower magnification scope with better glass costs less and beats a higher magnification scope every time. At really high magnification levels like 16x and 20x, you run into a lot of issues with parallax, mirage, low exit pupil (i.e. poor light transmission) etc. that just aren't there at lower magnification.

22-rimfire
November 2, 2006, 08:55 PM
Hot barrel may have something to do with it too.

chutchis
November 2, 2006, 09:31 PM
.41 Dave,
I know and understand exactly what you are saying. I bought the scope more because I thought it looked "cool" on my AR-15. I was new to shooting and have since learned that I have no need for a 20X scope (live and learn I guess). But given the fact that I did buy it and paid alot for it then I think it should perform. I guess I learned my lesson not to stray from Luepold again and not to buy what looks cool.

.41Dave
November 3, 2006, 03:48 AM
Ah. All of us have fallen for the "cool factor" at one time or another. Don't write off all non-Leupold scopes though. I used to be a big Leupold fan, but I've since replaced my Leupolds with other brands. Leupolds are good, don't get me wrong. But there are other scope brands that sometimes offer more bang-for-the-buck, as it were.

Critter183
November 3, 2006, 08:56 AM
Have you tried the same experiment at a range more suitable for the magnifications? Like 400 yards or 600 yards? I don't think it's the scope. I think it is the hi magnification at a short range.

I think the answer to the problem is to buy a new rifle and a new scope. A rifle that can make use of the 20X power scope, and a 3-9 scope for this rifle. :)

Critter183
November 3, 2006, 09:00 AM
But there are other scope brands that sometimes offer more bang-for-the-buck, as it were.

Can you tell me one that will give me the performance of my 4.6-14 VXIII Tactical mil dot Leupold for less buck? I tried a Springfield Armory, and my group sizes more than doubled at 200 meters. I wasn't a believer until I witnessed with my own eyes the difference good glass can make.

I would love to find something that can perform as good or better than a Leupold for less dough though. I have hard time parting with $600 for scopes. lol

.41Dave
November 4, 2006, 04:47 AM
Can you tell me one that will give me the performance of my 4.6-14 VXIII Tactical mil dot Leupold for less buck? I tried a Springfield Armory, and my group sizes more than doubled at 200 meters. I wasn't a believer until I witnessed with my own eyes the difference good glass can make.

I would love to find something that can perform as good or better than a Leupold for less dough though. I have hard time parting with $600 for scopes. lol

What kind of shooting are you doing, and what kind of features can you just not live without?

In general, I find that the Zeiss Conquest, Bushnell Elite 4200, Burris Signature Select, and Sightron SII and SIII all have better glass than the Leupolds. Leupold has a well deserved reputation for durability and an outstanding warranty, and they offer every reticle known to man, but other manufacturers offer better glass for the same or less money. As an example, I bought a Burris Fullfield II for $150 for my daughter's deer rifle. I compared it side-by-side with my $300 Leupold VXII, and the Burris beat the Leupold for overall optical quality, resolution and low light clarity.

JohnBT
November 4, 2006, 09:29 AM
IMO, there's no such thing as a steady wind.

So if you're shooting when the wind is blowing 15 mph, much less at 25, it is probably varying from something like 12.5 to 17.5 - or could be gusting near the target from 10 to 20.

Googled up at random...

"For example, with a 20 mile-per-hour crosswind a 55-grain .223 bullet will be 2.2 inches off the mark at 100 yards."

John

Jackal
November 5, 2006, 07:35 PM
Chutchis, if ur gonna sell that "broken" scope, i'll take it.

ojdidit
December 2, 2006, 12:34 AM
tagged

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