[firestar]

I like the feel of a arched mainspring 1911 or a BHP with Navidex grips as much as the next guy but I can't bring myself to carry a SA auto cocked and locked. I just don't feel right about it and I won't carry one uncocked or without a round in the tube because it is too slow to get into action like that. For home defense it is O.K. but not for concealed carry.

Does anyone else feel this way? Am I overly concerned about that cocked hammer? It just doesn't sit right with me.

[faustulus]

I carry SA almost exclusivly, the notable exceptions would be my Sigs. I look at it this way, if I don't put my finger on the trigger until I want to shoot I don't have a problem, that goes for SA or DA. It is a mindset, either you trust yourself and your weapon or you do not. It is not for everyone, thats why they make guns in so many different flavors. :)

[Gunner45]

I carry my Colt 1911 C&L in a holster with a thumb break. So no, it doesn't bother me to carry that way. That piece of leather between the slide and hammer is more than likely not needed , but nice just the same.


Gunner45

[farscott]

My concern about carrying 1911's is not the cocked hammer. There are enough mechanical safeties in addition to the mental safety that the cocked hammer is not an issue.

I am more concerned about a round being fired if a pistol is dropped. My CCW experience has proven to me that a pistol wll be dropped from time to time. I also witnessed an ND after a pistol was dropped at a range; luckily, no one was injured.

I know that many manufacturers have passed drop tests without firing pin safeties; however, all of those parts are usually brand new. I have often wondered what happens when a pistol is dropped after a firing pin spring has a few thousand rounds of wear. While I could change firing pin springs more often, I am not entirely satisfied by that preventative maintenance. One of the reasons my carry 1911's are all Colt Series 80 pistols is for the added peace of mind the firing pin safety provides. It may not be necessary for others, but it works for me.

[Graystar]

There's a simple solution to the problem....Glock.

[Lennyjoe]

There's a simple solution to the problem....Glock

This is true. Thats why I carry a G19.

But when the Taurus PT100 comes out in the winter I carry cocked and locked without worry.

[TarpleyG]

No problems over here. I have carried one for almost 10 years and have never had an issue.

[Sean Smith]

It just doesn't sit right with me.

Why? You haven't provided any reasons, other than than how you "feel." What are you afraid of happening? Do you have quantifiable reasons for this, or is the hammer back just scary-looking to you?

To fire the gun consciously, you have to deactivate the grip safety and the tumb safety, and put your finger on the trigger and pull it.

For the gun to go off "all by itself," you need some kind of catastrophic internal failure of the firing mechanism, and the half-cock has to fail, and the firing pin block safety has to fail.

You have to take three positive actions to fire the gun, and there have to be three simultaneous failure modes for the gun to go off on its own through mechanical breakdown. Heck, some people argue that it is too hard to get a 1911 to shoot because of the manual thumb safety. ;)

[Albert Shear]

I have carried 1911s for 30 years, cocked&locked in open top holsters. From the 70's to present I have dropped, kicked, thrown and beat on. Never has one fired without the trigger being pulled.
First, when dropped from any appreciable distance a loaded handgun will rotate the end with the most weight downward. This is the grip with loaded mag. This is what will strike the ground before the muzzle. Second, if you are afraid of the internal parts becoming worn, just replace the firing pin, fp spring, hammer and sear when you feel comfortable.

[Majic]

While on my person I don't mind cocked and locked, it's my preferred carry pistol. Home defense it will be Condition 3, loaded mag and empty chamber, but that's a mute point as my home defensive guns are revolvers.

[gryphon]

Do I have a problem carrying C&L:

NO

[sm]

Problem with C&L---NO.

The 1911 was designed to be carried this way. I have carried since '73 with no problems. BTW none of mine had/have series 80 or 'swartz safety system...don't want them,personally.

For many it takes practice and training to realize and appreciate the design of the 1911, and the C&L.

Or perhaps seeing someone like my gunsmith take a series 70 "beater gun" insert a primed case only and repeatedly drop it, bang it with a wooden /rubber hammer , and drop kick one across the ground to realize "finger off trigger" has another meaning.

Crisp triggers in the 3.5 to 4 # range is my preference.

Yes, an improper trigger job, by a shade tree gunsmith is not recommended, Any competent gunsmith will refuse to do a light trigger for a carry gun.

[Handy]

My "lack of comfort" with C&L carry is not a lack of safety, it's too many. I question my (and others) ability to disactivate the thumb safety under extreme circumstances.

I consider an actual defensive situation an "extreme circumstance".


Just a trigger is easier to assuredly actuate.

[Mike Irwin]

Yes.

I've never been comfortable with it.

And if you're not comfortable with something when it involves firearms, that's nature's way of saying you probably shouldn't do it.

[jem375]

Nope.........

[dude]

YES

..........it cannot be done with the P7

[Richard]

Safe gun handling is a rote skill. What do I mean? It is learned by repetition of action until it is done unconsciously. When I carry a 1911 or Browning High-Power it is cocked and locked in a quality holster sans retaining strap. regards, Richard:D

[B27]

Yes and no.
I feel completely at ease with a C/L 1911 holstered on my belt.
My problem is that during the day I will have to remove my gun from my belt anywhere from 3 to a half dozen times as I leave and return to my office. I could wear in the office but I'd have to wear a jacket.
It's that having to fool with the gun a number of times a day that is the reason I carry a P220 instead.
If I were actually EXPECTING trouble on any given day, I'd carry my Wilson that day.

[El Tejon]

Not me. However, I find it amusing that they same people who show such terror at a 1911 have no problems with a Glock, a SIG or a revolver. Must be the exposed hammer.

[Boats]

Let no one say that the anti-gunners have cornered the market on emotionally based argument. . . .:rolleyes:

[Mike Irwin]

"Terror"?

What terror?

Since when is not being comfortable with something terror?

And to categorize a C&L handgun with a revolver or SIG shows a decided lack of knowledge about how the different systems function.

Show me a revolver or SIG that has a 1/4" trigger travel with a 2 to 4 pound let off.

[Soap]

C&L is perfect for me. I don't worry about it at all.

[Sean Smith]

Mike,

Show me a revolver or SIG that has a 1/4" trigger travel with a 2 to 4 pound let off.

No off-the-shelf 1911 has anywhere near a 2 pound trigger. $3,000+ IPSC race guns, sure. Stuff you can buy at the corner store, hell no. Your statement is just counter-factual. 4-6 pounds for a factory 1911 is more like objective reality. Heck, most custom 'smiths won't take you below 4 pounds unless it is for a competition gun. For comparison's sake, Glocks with no manual safety have 5.5 pound triggers from the factory.

There is no one "right" answer for everyone. But I would suggest that people actually have a well-articulated reason for one choice versus the other, as opposed to relying on what the brain stem is whispering in your ear, or obviously counter-factual nonsense you will see now and again.

[Albert Shear]

B27,
I carry a 1911 almost everyday. I use an outer shirt like a mock suede. It resides in an Alessi CQC/S which snaps onto the belt so it can be removed as-is with the weapon still inside.

[Mike Irwin]

"No off-the-shelf 1911 has anywhere near a 2 pound trigger. $3,000+ IPSC race guns, sure. Stuff you can buy at the corner store, hell no. Your statement is just counter-factual. 4-6 pounds for a factory 1911 is more like objective reality."

So how many people actually carry a C&L 1911-type handgun that hasn't been modified with even a moderately successful trigger job and a few new parts?

Judging by the posts on websites such as these, it's more common to carry a modified 1911 than it is a box stock 1911.

It certainly doesn't take $3,000 to get a 2 to 4 pound trigger pull on a 1911.

And it certainly doesn't mean that all 1911-type handguns have single action trigger pulls approaching a double action revolver. My BHP has a box stock trigger pull of 3.3 pounds, my box stock Sprinfield Mil Spec is not very far over 4 pounds, IIRC.

Most revolvers, even those that have been worked on, still have double action trigger pulls that are double, or more, that 4 to 6 lb. 1911 trigger pull.


As for "well articulated" reasons for not doing so...

Tell me...

Which would be a more "well articulated" reason for doing something vs. not doing something...



I AM GUN GOD! I AM OMNIPOTENT! I HAVE just shot myself in the thigh... ow...


Or...

Despite my nearly 30 years of handling firearms, formal training with firearms, nearly 20 years of carrying a firearm, and perhaps 250,000 shots down range with a wide variety of handguns, as well as an "incident or two" involving firearms and those who had visions of hurting me, I've remained with the conclusion that I'm not comfortable with carrying a C&L semi-auto for defensive purposes.

The "high stress" safety margin afforded by a long, relatively heavy double action trigger pull, my own personal experience with many types of handguns, and my personal knowledge of my own stress level reactions and my own physical and mental reactions and limitations has done nothing to disuade me from the belief I have that in my situation, C&L carry is not for me.

Unlike the seeming accusations leveled by other posters, there's no terror factor involved, no great trembling when I see a C&L semi-auto (which I see, and use, on a regular basis when I shoot club matches), and no belief that my training is lacking.

Just the studied, and honest, recognition that C&L carry isn't for me.

So, tell me, Mr. Smith...

Is there something whispering false truths in my ear?

Or am I one of the candy assed pansies (and apparently frighteningly few, to boot) who doesn't believe that hyper macho stiff penis swaggering bravado bull???? is a replacement for knowing onself and one's capabilities?

[Penforhire]

Yes, I will never go cocked and locked with my series 70. A drop could be fatal.

Those of you who also rely on the grip safety should confirm their function regularly. The "ordinary" 1911 grip safety can easily stick without you knowing it.

[Sean Smith]

Mike, it might help if you actually read my post, or got your facts straight, or...


"No off-the-shelf 1911 has anywhere near a 2 pound trigger. $3,000+ IPSC race guns, sure. Stuff you can buy at the corner store, hell no. Your statement is just counter-factual. 4-6 pounds for a factory 1911 is more like objective reality."

So how many people actually carry a C&L 1911-type handgun that hasn't been modified with even a moderately successful trigger job and a few new parts?

Lots, actually.

Judging by the posts on websites such as these, it's more common to carry a modified 1911 than it is a box stock 1911.

Which proves nothing.

It certainly doesn't take $3,000 to get a 2 to 4 pound trigger pull on a 1911.

No, but as I noted before, most reputable 'smiths won't sell you an under-4 pound trigger on anything but a competition gun. For you to say otherwise is just being ignorant.

And it certainly doesn't mean that all 1911-type handguns have single action trigger pulls approaching a double action revolver.

I never said they did. So quit putting words in my mouth. I never even mentioned revolvers. I simply gave you a much more accurate range of factory 1911 trigger pull weights than what you made up.

My BHP has a box stock trigger pull of 3.3 pounds, my box stock Sprinfield Mil Spec is not very far over 4 pounds, IIRC.

That's nice. Proves nothing. Want a cookie?

Most revolvers, even those that have been worked on, still have double action trigger pulls that are double, or more, that 4 to 6 lb. 1911 trigger pull.

I never said they didn't. Again, putting words in my mouth. Hell, I never even MENTIONED revolvers.

As for "well articulated" reasons for not doing so...

Tell me...

Which would be a more "well articulated" reason for doing something vs. not doing something...

I AM GUN GOD! I AM OMNIPOTENT! I HAVE just shot myself in the thigh... ow...

Where the hell did you get that? If you read my post, you'd see that I said there wasn't any one right answer for everybody. Jeez, do you always run off the handle based on things people didn't even say?

Or...

Despite my nearly 30 years of handling firearms, formal training with firearms, nearly 20 years of carrying a firearm, and perhaps 250,000 shots down range with a wide variety of handguns, as well as an "incident or two" involving firearms and those who had visions of hurting me, I've remained with the conclusion that I'm not comfortable with carrying a C&L semi-auto for defensive purposes.

That's nice. I never said C&L was the right answer for everyone. If you had read my post, instead of getting hysterical, you would already know that.

Is there something whispering false truths in my ear?

Just about 1911 trigger pull weights, apparently. 2lb 1911 triggers are very uncommon, because if you knew thing one about how the gun works you'd realize that it is rather difficult to get that low safely.... (for the curious, read on)

http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=8983

But of course we all know that Mike knows more about 1911 triggers than Jack Weigand... ;)

And quoting Jack (and every reputable 'smith I've ever talked to or heard of): "Handguns that I build for carry, duty or defensive work have a 4 to 4-1/2 pound pull weight."

Of course, that's in the real world. In Mike's world it might be different. ;)



Or am I one of the candy assed pansies (and apparently frighteningly few, to boot) who doesn't believe that hyper macho stiff penis swaggering bravado bull???? is a replacement for knowing onself and one's capabilities?

Nice bit of misdirection. I never engaged in a personal attack on anyone. Try READING MY POST. So why are you engaging in this personal attack against me for correcting your silly misconception about 1911 trigger pulls? Or was I out of line for suggesting that people make well-reasoned decisions about their weapons?



:rolleyes:

If you want to irrationally flame me in my absence, go ahead. I'm outta here. Let me know when you can talk about guns like a grown-up, without bringing "stiff penis" into the conversation. :rolleyes:

[Doc]

I won't carry one uncocked or without a round in the tube because it is too slow to get into action like that.

When teaching residents to do surgery, after they watch, they all try to emulate their instructors by doing the task FAST. I make a special point to teach them to do it well (read: smooth) and that fast comes with practice.

Any system CAN be fast. You just need to train with that system.
Remember: be SMOOTH, smooth is FAST!
And it take 300-500 reps to learn to do simple motor skill, and 3000-5000 reps to put that skill into muscle memory.

I don't know nothing about teaching or motor skills, but that's my opinion.

[El Tejon]

Mike, as Doc sez, it's just a matter of trainin' and edjumakashun.:D I'll take knowledge over technology any day, but that's just me and I represent the cool knowledge over "cool gun" minority.

People have do lots of silly things with any weapon. Don't we have an ongoing thread with supporting video of a po-po with an ND by means of an M9--one of those safe long trigger pulling crunchenticker.:uhoh:

BTW, what I said about the crunchentickers and the revolvers is that people get the shakes about c&l with a 1911, but do not become terrified over revolvers with no safeties or SIGs or Glocks. At least my 1911 has a safety that I have to disengage:D However, since we at THR all follow Rule #3, it is a distinction without difference.

[renaissance]

I found MY solution in a Para Ord LDA.
Actually, two > (6.45 and CCW)

"1911" in all meaningful ways; but with a smooth and light - but positive double action pull every time.

Yet you carry "Hammer Down" (well almost completely hammer down)

PLUS

A "Manual Safety" on top of it All.

I DO KNOW that Carrying "Cocked and Locked" IS safe.
I just feel better carrying hammer down.

And almost as importantly:

It lets the people around me feel better.

Kind of takes the edge off of the "Dangerous Dan" image.

renaissance

[Mike Irwin]

No off-the-shelf 1911 has anywhere near a 2 pound trigger. $3,000+ IPSC race guns, sure. Stuff you can buy at the corner store, hell no. Your statement is just counter-factual. 4-6 pounds for a factory 1911 is more like objective reality."

Check, read that, addressed that.

"Heck, most custom 'smiths won't take you below 4 pounds unless it is for a competition gun. For comparison's sake, Glocks with no manual safety have 5.5 pound triggers from the factory."

Check, read that, addressed that. Most smiths. Competition.

I guess that means that most smiths mean all smiths and that no one would ever consider slipping a light-trigger 1911 in their Askins avenger.

As Jack Weigand says in his message, 4 lb. trigger. As I said in the message that set this off, 4 lb trigger. Yes, I used that as an upper limit. And yes, I've seen far too many 1911s that have been modified by gunsmiths, either professional or kitchen table, that fall well below the 4 lb mark on guns that see defensive holster use .

As for the Glock and the 5.5, if I'm not mistaken, many many thousand early Glocks left the factory with 3.5 to 4 pound triggers, the belief being that the built-in safety mechanisms on the Glock would prevent NDs.

"There is no one "right" answer for everyone."

Check, read that, addressed that. Also agree with it.

"But I would suggest that people actually have a well-articulated reason for one choice versus the other, as opposed to relying on what the brain stem is whispering in your ear, or obviously counter-factual nonsense you will see now and again."

Check, read that, addressed that, but it certainly seems to go counter to your previous statement that there's no single answer for everyone.

As is so often the case when talking about 1911s, C&L, and .45s, there's usually a decided undercurrent of "hemanism" running through the thread, which is evident here, as well.

So, so sorry. Read your message. Addressed your message. And know that I have more than a simple "flight of fancy" reason for not wanting to use C&L handguns.

Finally, I didn't attack you personally -- if I made it seem that way, I apologize. But again, there are often strong currents of hemanism, chest thumping, and vine swinging surrounding the 1911 and this subject.

[Skunkabilly]

I like C&L...it scares people at church when I open carry and greet and pass out bulletins at the door...... :D

I carried my USP45C C&L and it never bothered me, just didn't like the gun.

I carry P7 now.

Giving some thought to C&L slide mounted safeties like a Beretta would give yet another layer of security if whatever happened, happened.

[Sean Smith]

"But I would suggest that people actually have a well-articulated reason for one choice versus the other, as opposed to relying on what the brain stem is whispering in your ear, or obviously counter-factual nonsense you will see now and again."

Check, read that, addressed that, but it certainly seems to go counter to your previous statement that there's no single answer for everyone.

No it doesn't. It cuts both ways. Using a 1911 C&L because you it means you are a "stiff penis" sort is just as misguided as not using a 1911 C&L because it makes you feel ooky...

I'm not asking people to use one or the other. I'm suggesting that people critically THINK about their weapon choices and make an informed decision... whatever it winds up being.

[RCL]

I have no problem with the practice of carying cocked and locked. I carry my rifles and shotguns like that, no problem with a handgun. Safe handling and common sense are the keys.

[GitSome45]

Being the "new guy" on the block, (humor suit on)

I carry MY 1911 with the magazine unloaded & out, chamber empty, slide removed and grips unscrewed...

(Just makes me FEEEEEL safer... ;)

JMHO,

Howard

[cool45auto]

No worries.

[El Tejon]

Mike, "hemanism" with the 1911???:confused:

Well, then, how do you explain the fact that El Tejon, the personification of foo-foo yuppie-scumism, carries one?:D

[litework]

When I carry my Officer's Model, it is carried in an IWB holster without a thumbstrap, and it's carried cocked and locked. I'm completely comfortable with it.

[Black_Talon]

To fire the gun consciously, you have to deactivate the grip safety and the tumb safety, and put your finger on the trigger and pull it.

For the gun to go off "all by itself," you need some kind of catastrophic internal failure of the firing mechanism, and the half-cock has to fail, and the firing pin block safety has to fail.

You have to take three positive actions to fire the gun, and there have to be three simultaneous failure modes for the gun to go off on its own through mechanical breakdown. Heck, some people argue that it is too hard to get a 1911 to shoot because of the manual thumb safety.

Sean Smith said it best in his post.

I've always known this but 20+ years ago when I first started carrying a 1911 I was nervous about doing it so I used a thumbreak holster to carry C&L. After about 5-10 years I finally got over my unfounded fear and just started carrying C&L w/o a thumbreak holster.

[Doc]

To fire the gun consciously, you have to deactivate the grip safety and the tumb safety, and put your finger on the trigger and pull it.

For the gun to go off "all by itself," you need some kind of catastrophic internal failure of the firing mechanism, and the half-cock has to fail, and the firing pin block safety has to fail.

You have to take three positive actions to fire the gun, and there have to be three simultaneous failure modes for the gun to go off on its own through mechanical breakdown. Heck, some people argue that it is too hard to get a 1911 to shoot because of the manual thumb safety.


Sean Smith said it best in his post.



yup, ditto, amen, doch...

you could always opt for one of those Para Ordinance LDA, and carry hammer down, if and when you become comfortable then switch to C & L

[blades67]

Does anyone have a problem carrying "cock and locked"



Not with my Kimber.:cool:

[TheFrontRange]

No problems carrying a 1911 cocked-and-locked here. I've carried with both thumb-break and open-topped holsters and have had no problems thus far.

After spending some extended time carrying a SIG and then slipping the 1911 back on, I did catch myself trying to swipe down the 1911's non-existent decocking lever after chambering a round, though. :)

[Doc]

you know we all have little physical mantras, wallet money watch....

mine has been: wedding ring, pager, safety on

[OEF_VET]

I carry a stock, $400, Rock Island Armory 1911, cocked and locked, and I have no concerns about it. It's no $3000 IPSC race gun, but I'm just as comfortable with it as with any other handgun (well, ok, I wouldn't feel comfortable carrying a Lorcin), because I know it won't hurt anyone unless I want it to.

Frank

[kbellis3]

When my 1911A-1 Springy get back from the 1911 shop I will go back to carrying her in my open-top Gould & Goodrich holster.


Kyle

[firestar]

To fire the gun consciously, you have to deactivate the grip safety and the tumb safety, and put your finger on the trigger and pull it.

That is only true for a 1911. There are other SA guns out there that don't have a grip safety.

Let me clear up why I don't carry SA only guns. If all I ever carried was a full sized 1911 in a holster, I would have very little problem with cocked and locked. Sometimes I don't use a holster and sometimes the gun in question is not full sized but rather medium to small sized. I don't "feel" but I know from experience that a saftey can move (either on or off) when carried. Sometimes it can move even if it is in a holster. I don't trust manual safeties. If a C&L gun has the safety moved to the off position, all it takes is a small movement of the trigger to go off rather than a long pull as from a DA gun. Like people have said, if it is dropped, it may be more likly to go off than an uncocked pistol.

I also don't want to have to think about anything that I really don't have to if something really bad ever happens to me. I don't want to have to think about having to manually snick off a safety when with a DA/SA gun I wouldn't have to. Sometimes my gun goes from my holster to my glove box to me coat pocket to my wasteband etc.

Would anyone really carry a Colt .380 Mustange cocked and locked in their pocket? That is where the gun is designed to be, in the pocket, hence "pocket gun". I am just wondering how people carry these guns and does everyone really use a holster 100% of the time?

[Thumper]

Just curious,

Do you folks uncomfortable with C&L carry feel the same way about your AR or AK? Or most any other long gun, for that matter?

Why or why not?

[faustulus]

Like people have said, if it is dropped, it may be more likly to go off than an uncocked pistol.

While I think this statement is true of guns without firing pin blocks I don't think it acurately extends to series 80 colts, Hi Power MkIII or CZ 75 Bs. I carry each of these, mostly in a holster, but sometimes just stuck in the waist band. All the trigger pulls are above four pounds. Guns are designed to go bang when you pull the trigger. If you don't pull the trigger and they go bang something bad is wrong with the gun. Despite what the news would have us believe guns do not as a rule "just go off." Yes you have a longer travel distance with a DA and a most of the time a heaiver pull. But when your adrenialin is pumping the difference between 4 pounds and 15 isn't noticable. It all comes down to what you have praticed. Keep your finger off the trigger you are fine. Don't and it doesn't matter if it is SA or not. A SA with the safety off still will not go bang unless you pull the trigger. But as I said there are guns for all types, if you aren't comfortably with C&L you still have a world of choices avaliable to you.

[Fed168]

I have no problem with it. If anything, it makes me more aware of the handgun, and time permitting I check the safety. Yes, I have had it come off from time to time. 1911 or BHP, I feel more comfortable with it C&L than not.
Funny thing, when I started carrying my 1911, a couple coworkers asked me if I knew the hammer was back.

[New_comer]

> Does anyone have a problem carrying "cock and locked" ?


Not me.


But I prefer to carry either locked & loaded hammer down, or unloaded Israeli-draw...


I no He-man, don't want no hole in my thigh! :D :evil: :p

[denfoote]

Let's see. I have three pistols that can be carried cocked and locked.

1911

Browning High Power

Taurus PT92

I have carried them all in this condition and have NOT yet managed to put a round through a body part that the missus would sorely grieve the loss of. ;) Yeah, I'm good with cocked and locked!!!! :evil:

[Edward429451]

I carry C&L.

Am I to understand that this is dangerous?

Hmmm.

chu-chuck, snick.

HAVE A NICE DAY. BWAHAHAHAHA.:cool:

[Grayrider]

Some of the posts on this thread have really got me chuckling--both the ones that were intended as humerous and the ones that weren't! Anyway, I have no problem carrying cocked and locked. I don't understand the views expressed by some that I have three things to think about to fire my gun. I guess I am not thinking hard enough. When I draw my 1911 it seems to go bang when I pull the trigger. Somewhere between point A (in the holster) and point B (firing) a bunch of stuff must be happening and really slowing me down. I guess I need to get a gun with no safeties and a really heavy, sloppy trigger so I can see how fast I can really be! Bet that would do wonders for my accuracy as well.

:D

GR

[seeker_two]

While I have no problem carrying C&L or seeing others carry C&L, I just find myself using Condition 2 more often on my 1911 & Firestar 9mm. Why?...

* I shoot a lot of SA revolvers (& a lot of revolvers SA), so I'm already used to cocking on the draw.
*With practice (like everything else), cocking an auto on the draw is no more difficult or fumble-prone than using the thumb safety.
* Most modern SA autos allow themselves to be carried this way safely.
* It makes the gun a little more "proprietary" in a scuffle. The other person will have to figure out why pulling the trigger doesn't work while I'm taking my gun back from him...:evil:

Condition 1 or Condition 2 are the only ways to CARRY a gun. All the rest are storage methods.

Now, a Glock or Steyr WITHOUT the safeties found in a good 1911---that makes me a little nervous...:what:

(BTW, my 1991A1 is mechanically stock. Only changes are Pachmyer (sp?) grips & LPA adj. sights. I LIKE 5-7 lb. triggers...)

[firestar]

As you can tell from handle, I have a Firestar 9mm (and several other single action pistols) which is a SA only gun. I don't carry it C&L but I do carry it with the hammer down and one in the tube. The hammer is easy to cock but it would be better if it were DA for the first shot and SA for the remaining shots. I have come to the conclusion that the best system for carry is DA/SA with no safty and a decocker only.

With a DA/SA and decocker, as long as there is a round in the chamber, there is never a time when simply pulling the trigger won't make the gun shoot. I try to remember the K.I.S.S. principle as much as I can. A good defensive gun should be as simple as possible without giving up the other features that are important.

[FJC]

I've always liked this article on Cocked & Locked carry, entitled, "Is cocked and locked dangerous?":

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/cockedandlocked.htm

[yucapote]

Does anyone have a problem carrying "cock and locked"

No problem whatsoever, the 1911 was meant to be carried like that. That is why I love them!

[M1911]

Does anyone have a problem carrying "cock and locked"As you can guess by my handle, no, I don't have any problem with condition 1.

If you do, here's a suggestion. First, take your 1911 and carry around the house for several weeks. Carry it chamber empty, but cocked and locked. See if the hammer ever falls or the safety ever gets wiped off. If you do that and you're still not comfortable with it, then maybe condition-one is not for you. As I'm sure you're aware, there's plenty of good alternatives out there, like Glocks, Sigs, HKs, etc.

The great thing about capitalism is choices. If you don't like mine, then pick something else.

[Soap]

If you have to think about manipulating your gun, you're not practicing enough. The safety on a 1911 is just muscle memory for many people. Conscious thought is not given just as the "finger off the trigger" practice does not take conscious thought.

I'm not going to say what works for you. But don't assume that C&L is unsafe or ineffective. It is safe and it is effective if you practice, just like with any mode of fire.

[Thumper]

chu-chuck, snick.

HAVE A NICE DAY!

Nice. :D