SIG vs H&K


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Ghostrider_23
November 3, 2006, 07:40 PM
I am in the market for a 45 ACP. I want to know from you all which one is better or if it really makes a difference in which one I get. I have VERY SMALL hands but want a reliable firearm. My choices are the SIG 220, H&K USP or USP Compact. I can't find any shop that rents any of these pistols so I have turned to you the experts. If you had to choice one which would it be in my hands? Is there a difference in the USP and USP Compcat or should I go with the Sig??? Any help would be greatful. Thank you

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Black Majik
November 3, 2006, 07:54 PM
The SIG P220 might fit you better since it's a single stack compared to the double stack USPs. The fullsize USP 45 is well known to be a pretty damn big gun.

Both would be very reliable, you wont run into any problems with them. You can also look at a 1911 from a reputable manufacturer, single stack 1911s are usually very easy to shoot and in general very comfortable.

real_name
November 3, 2006, 07:56 PM
I got my first Sig this week, yes I finally joined the Sig Club. While I wasn't looking at the exact guns you are comparing I did have the two brands as my final choice.
I was looking at the HK P2000SK and the Sig P239 or P232.
I went with the P232.
My rationalization was that I will get the other two sooner or later anyway, but more importantly the P232 just felt awesome on my belt, in my hand and disassembled ridiculously easy.
But, it was still a tough call.
They are both very good brands.

evan1293
November 3, 2006, 08:12 PM
I had a couple hk usps and I don't think Ild recomend them for someone with small hands. My friends that have tried my hks that had small hands, found the grip to be too much. I had a sig 220 and yes its slimmer than the hk but I think its still has a pretty beefy grip to it. If you really want a .45 I think your best bet is a 1911 or maybe the XD. The HK and sig are both excellent hand guns but if I were you I'ld go to a gunshop and handle them before you make any choices. The grip on the usp compact is still pretty thick in my opinion.

Mulliga
November 3, 2006, 08:49 PM
I have medium-smallish hands, and I always liked the P220s better. Very accurate, good triggers, reliable - and they are a bit more comfy, being a single stack. As others have said, they both have pretty beefy grips - a 1911 feels way better for me. YMMV

stockett
November 3, 2006, 08:59 PM
If you have small hands I would recommend the HK compact, out of the three it has the smallest grip. Also nice to carry.

SAG0282
November 4, 2006, 12:27 AM
SIG 220 gets my vote.

BullfrogKen
November 4, 2006, 12:41 AM
Ghostrider_23 said: I am in the market for a 45 ACP. . . . I have VERY SMALL hands but want a reliable firearm. My choices are the SIG 220, H&K USP or USP Compact.

Why are you limiting yourself to these 3? A single column magazine design is much slimmer than a staggered, yet you only have one of these among your list. Have you considered expanding your selection?

Armadeli
November 4, 2006, 01:16 AM
I was unsure about the USP45 at first. I was going to get it regardless, but it seemed so big. I've found it to be a great gun. I can conceal it fairly easily, but if it's gonna be a hot or long day, I'll take the G30.
A buddy of mine has the Sig. I really like it but it's not something I would buy. One of the selling points of the HK was mag capacity. I believe the H&K is also lighter and thinner. There are so many versions now that to compare you'd have to be specific. Honestly I'd try to find a 1911 first.
Either way I would consider these 2 pistols more along the lines of a battle pistol. I've heard rare reports of issues with either.
As far as the H&K compact goes... It's a good gun for concealed carry. Here are some numbers to crunch:

Description___caliber___weight____length___width___height__capacity
usp45f _______45 _______20.16?____7.87___1.26____5.55___12
usp45c_______45________23.52?____7.09___1.14____5.06____8
g30__________45________26.49_____6.77___1.27____4.76___10
Kahr p45_____45________18.50_____6.07____1.01 ___4.80____6

I know you asked about specific makes, but this helps put it all into perspective. I saw so many variations on the Sig that I left it out. I have little doubt in the glock, but p45 seems to still be going thru some bugs.
Feel free to correct any mistakes there. There's gotta be something wrong with the weight on the usp45f.

Armadeli
November 4, 2006, 01:50 AM
Alright, so i was wrong about "all" the options for sig. I'm not gonna bother posting it's specs, but it is all around larger than the usp45c. It even has a shorter sight radius... man, I wish I'd never looked. But there's no doubt it is a superb piece of steel.

cslinger
November 4, 2006, 01:53 AM
SIG 220 without a doubt. It is by far more then the sum of its parts and I belive the finest double action .45 ever created but I am a Sig-O-Phile so take this for what it is worth.

Chris

10-Ring
November 4, 2006, 02:11 AM
Go w/ what works best for you ;) But since you're asking, I prefer the USP 45 :cool:

Ghostrider_23
November 4, 2006, 07:11 PM
:cuss: I asked about a 1911 compact, but everyone shot down the Para Ordnance LDA single stack. I don't like to carry in condition one so the para was the only chioce. Why is the para so bad?????????

SoCalShooter
November 4, 2006, 07:18 PM
Tried all three before i purchased my HK USP full size, SIG is expensive and the HK shoots and works just as well as it does at least in my opinion. I suggest taking a field trip to a place that does have one or all of them for you to test.

Ala Dan
November 4, 2006, 08:26 PM
For me anyway, as I voted for the SIG P220A~!;) :D

gdvan01
November 4, 2006, 11:46 PM
The SIG is an excellent piece. I carried one (P226 9mm) for years, instructed people on it and we even shot a few matches with our duty weapons and placed in the top 5 a few times. I'd love to get my hands on a P220 for personal use.

NineseveN
November 4, 2006, 11:51 PM
The 220 is slimmer around due to the single-stack mag.

The USP full-size is huge, might want to skip that idea.

The USP compact is slimmer around than the full-size, fatter than the 220, but the grip height is shorter than both.

I don't think anyone can make this decision for you, you're gonna have to find one in a store to at least hold and see if you can wrap your hands comfortably around it.

BullfrogKen
November 5, 2006, 12:29 AM
Ghostrider_23 said: I asked about a 1911 compact, but everyone shot down the Para Ordnance LDA single stack. I don't like to carry in condition one so the para was the only chioce. Why is the para so bad?????????

Then try that one, too. I don't like the trigger system, but that's personal taste.

You don't like to carry with a round in the chamber, or you don't like to carry Cocked and Locked?

Ghostrider_23
November 5, 2006, 08:11 AM
Must carry with one in the pipe, just not cocked and locked

usp_fan
November 6, 2006, 12:13 AM
I have small hands also. I own both a usp40c and a 220. With the slimmest grips I can find and the short trigger, the sig is shootable and very nice. I've played with the HK usp45c and can say the trigger reach and grip are more small hand friendly. For a full sized pistol with a great grip for small hands, you've got to try the XD45. If you have to go with one of your choices, get the HK compact-or get the SIG but plan on swapping triggers.

--usp_fan

BullfrogKen
November 6, 2006, 05:49 AM
Ghostrider_23 said: Must carry with one in the pipe, just not cocked and locked

Why not?

gudel
November 6, 2006, 12:23 PM
I bought a new p220st. it was a single action out of the box. dealing with sig customer service was not pleasant, but BBB helped me :evil:

I bought another this "Pro" version. Rust in the firing control out of the box. How the **** do you get rust on a brand new gun? I was not pleased. :mad:

for a gun that has the slide made in USA it sure is cost more than a gun that is fully imported. They say HK costs more, they must be blind or just never get out of the house often. Sig is overpriced and overhyped rust bucket with low quality control and less than satisfactory customer service.

Get with program, get the HK. Stick with performance. ;)

Master Blaster
November 6, 2006, 12:25 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=192908&highlight=SIG+p220+extractor

Go with the HK compact.

I can't recommend the P220st, an older SIG may be OK.

Good luck with your choice

DogBonz
November 6, 2006, 12:26 PM
But, because of your hand size, go with the SIG. They are all great and won't let you down.

hnk45acp
November 6, 2006, 03:31 PM
This past weekend I compared my USP compact 9mm to a P220. The P220 grip is about 3/32nd of an inch larger than the USP compact 9mm.

Since the USP compact 45 is a bit larger my guess is that they would be about the same size.

They do have different feels, the HK is a bit more rectangular and the P220 is more oval

denfoote
November 6, 2006, 04:47 PM
I went through this some time back.
HKs and Sigs do absolutely nothing for me.
I had (actually two) Glock 30s. I really tried to give the gun every benefit of the doubt, but eventually went with the Glock 36 and never looked back!! :evil:

Armadeli
November 12, 2006, 12:03 AM
Don't mean to take this off topic, but for an edc non-duty pistol the G30(or 36) and pt145 are capable pistols. May not fit the bill if you want something for status though. If you ever use it you will be without it for a while - $$. But, for a duty piece, those in question are great. In order as listed USP45F, USP45C, P220.

Redhat
November 12, 2006, 12:11 AM
Sig / HK are both okay in my book, but can anyone tell me what major Police Dept's (anywhere in the world) or what country's militaries use either as standard issue service weapons?

Thanks

daysleeprx
November 12, 2006, 12:22 AM
I believe German law enforcement uses HKs, and I've heard that Air Marshalls do as well...but don't hold me to that.

BullfrogKen
November 12, 2006, 12:35 AM
Redhat said: what major Police Dept's (anywhere in the world) or what country's militaries use either as standard issue

And how might that factor into the decision?

Redhat
November 12, 2006, 12:41 AM
Bullfrogken

The poster asked which one was the best...and if they have already been adopted by LE / Mil, that might be a good indication of reliability as most of these outfits do considerable testing pior to buying.

Seems like a good place to start

BullfrogKen
November 12, 2006, 01:09 AM
Agencies, Departments, and Militaries have their own reasons for choosing handguns that may or may not have any bearing on our needs and purposes. Even, <gasp> :eek: politics can affect that decision.

They're good guns. Once you get past the Hi-Points and Lorcins of the world, you get into decent guns. These will all work.


None of us can tell the other what's best for him to use. Same goes for choosing our guns based off what the police and militaries use.

jlh26oo
November 12, 2006, 01:16 AM
Whether any/some/no agencies approve (not necessarily issue) a particular pistol carries a little weight for me. This is not entirely related, but keeping my eye on the growing number endorsing the GAP; but more to the point of firearm make/model selection- if a department/agency REMOVES something from the approved list, it raises an eyebrow. I'd want to look into the reason at least. Of course I wouldn't make a purchased based solely on that, but I'd not critique someone for asking either in their selection process, ymmv.

Hey, why only list two options of HK to one of Sig? You should have offered compact and full size in several calibers, each in black and OD- then one Sig. That'd spread the HK votes around a bit more.

:neener:

I voted HK.

larry starling
November 12, 2006, 10:31 AM
FWIW have owned both and the Sig is a far better weapon. Pass on the H&K's there overpriced and from experience with a USP Compact not reliable.....:evil:

Redhat
November 12, 2006, 11:58 AM
Yeah the agencies set the standard for what they want, but I certainly wouldn't ignore the rigorous testing handguns have been put through. It is a good indicator of reliabillity.

After that he will have to pick what he can afford as well as what shoots good for him.

robertbank
November 12, 2006, 12:16 PM
If you have shot the 1911 and like that platform then you owe it to yourself to look at one of the Para LDA's. Check out their webiste. Guys who have the LDA love the trigger and the 1911 design provides a pistol that is very concealable. They ahve an excellent service group and a lifetume warranty.
Take Care

Bob

High Planes Drifter
November 12, 2006, 09:32 PM
I own a 220. My older brother owns a HK USP Tactical. We shoot together often and I have alot of experience with his USP. For a smaller handed person (like myself), the 220 is a better choice. You'll enjoy it more as it will fit your hand better. BTW, both are excellent pistols.;)

muscles
November 12, 2006, 11:54 PM
both are accurate, reliable and well built. maybe this will help you decide... :)
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9430/1sj8.jpg
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5273/2va6.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/489/3gz9.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/430/4jn9.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9974/5bf3.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2236/6bl6.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/6156/7ab1.jpg
good luck!

hnk45acp
November 13, 2006, 01:34 AM
deleted

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