[Doug.38PR]

Okay,
Suppose you are walking along and some unusually paranoid person sees a something buldge through you coat briefly. Nothing they can really make out it could be anything from a wrinkle, to a cell phone to a wallet, but in their paranoid mind, they scream "OMGsh! He's got a gun!"
The police come, the paranoid person complains. They search you and it turns out you do have a gun.
What happens?

Disclaimer (this is not something I sit around worrying about, It will never happen, just an interesting thought that crossed my mind)

[Handgun Midas]

"Here's my CCW license, Officer, have a nice day."

You've got nothing to worry about unless you've entered a building where firearms are banned.

[WayneConrad]

I'm going to wake up from that nightmare, realize I'm still in Arizona, breath a sigh of relief, and go back to sleep.

[Malum Prohibitum]

Then take off the coat and carry openly. No big deal.

[ID_shooting]

It HAS happened.

Browsing the new DVD section I see two uniformed officers come in. The talk to the clerk who points in my direction. I start to look around, CRAP my KT is exposed. The two officers head my way. I wait for them to approach keeping my hands in plain view. They come up on either side. Say hello. Cop one askes me if I have a carry permit, I say yes sir. He asks which pocket, I say left sir. (gun is on right). He asks to see it. Keeping my right hand away from the KT I use my left to pull my wallet and give him my CWL. He looks at it, uses his shoulder mounted hand set and calls it in, comes back clean. He hands the license back and and says, please do a better job concealing the gun. And tells me to have a nice day. I say yes sir and ask him if I may adjust it now. He says yes. I do. They go back to the clerk, talk a minute then leave.

Took longer to type it than it did for it to acctually happen.

[Malum Prohibitum]

He hands the license back and and says, please do a better job concealing the gun.

Of course, you responded, "Or what?"

I mean, is it illegal to expose your weapon in Idaho when you have a license to carry? :confused:

Or did you mean to tell us the man was opinion enforcement instead of law enforcement?

[ID_shooting]

OK, so the events to not convey the attitude of the LEO. He was implying that exposed firearms scare the sheep. Really, I have no issues with the LEOs that talked to me that day. They got a call, they HAD to check it out, they did the required checks, they saw everything was fine and kosher and they left. No blaring gun fight, no needless cuffing while they give me an anal probe for DNA testing, nothing other than "OK, have a nice day."

Seriously, why do some posters feel they must turn every reported LEO encouter into a "Us vs. Them" scenario or a "cop bash fest?"

[Bergerboy]

Seriously, why do some posters feel they must turn every reported LEO encouter into a "Us vs. Them" scenario or a "cop bash fest?"

Some people believe that our Right to firearms is to be taken as it was written centuries ago. That we have a Right to carry, and that questioning that Right is considered harassment. Also, the fact that just because someone has a gun does not instantly give you reason to believe they are breaking the law (it IS legal to carry) and that being searched and questioned for simply possessing a gun in public can be construed as harassing law-abiding citizens unjustly.

Just my hypothesis. ;)

[Malum Prohibitum]

Seriously, why do some posters feel they must turn every reported LEO encouter into a "Us vs. Them" scenario or a "cop bash fest?"

Seeing as how I was a police officer for 12 years, I dunno about "us v. them," maybe I turned it into a "them v. them" scenario? :D Kind of funny I never had any us v. them scenarios over this issue during those 12 years.

Telling someone to cover his gun when it is legal to have it uncovered is simply wrong, even if he did it politely. It is not his job. I would have asked him to please conceal his gun. :)

Anal probes for DNA testing? Wow, negative encounters in Idaho can get pretty serious! I guess I would be happy with the way yours turned out, too.

[Leanwolf]

IDAHO SHOOTING - "Browsing the new DVD section ..."

Id. S., if you don't mind, in what Boise video store were you shopping? :confused: (I live in Boise, too. PM me if you wish.) Also, how were you carrying that the clerk saw your pistol??

Thanks.

L.W.

[expvideo]

Don't worry. In 43 states open carry is legal. What is up with this big myth that if someone finds out you're carrying, that you'll be in some kind of trouble for it? The 2nd amendment isn't for show.

There are only 7 states that this is a bad idea in, one of them being Texas (big deal there). Everywhere else... don't worry so much!

[Standing Wolf]

Nothing they can really make out it could be anything from a wrinkle, to a cell phone to a wallet, but in their paranoid mind, they scream "OMGsh! He's got a gun!"

I'd say that's reason number 51,378 to carry openly: no need to disturb paranoid minds with uncertainties.

[expvideo]

Amen!

[kengrubb]

Suppose you are walking along and some unusually paranoid person sees a something buldge ... they scream "OMGsh! He's got a gun!"
Depending upon the forum, I would think that some sort of attempt at "soothing the folks" would be in order. Some danged fool screams "gun", and that tends to invoke fear.

I suggest holding up one's non-gun hand, palm out, about eye level, giving a stop signal. Don't raise both hands and don't raise the one hand over one's head. Either action makes one look a criminal surrendering.

Say something soothing. I suggest saying, "It's OK folks, I'll call and get uniformed officers here." It's a somewhat odd construct, a bit of a non sequitur, and it has a soothing tone to it, don't cha think? Calming and confusing people is a sound tactic for defusing such a situation. Calm people don't panic. Confused people don't react. Both are better, but I'll accept either.

Take out one's cell phone and call 9-1-1. [You carry a gun, so you do carry a cell phone, right?] Try to slip off to the side away from folks so they cannot hear what you're saying very clearly. Don't act like you're walking away or leaving as that will get reported as "man with gun fleeing".

Tell the 9-1-1 operator, "Hi, I'm an armed citizen and I have a Concealed Pistol License (the document's title here in Washington state)." This will get the operator's attention right away, they will focus in on your words, and they will know this is a legitimate call to which they need to pay attention.

"I'm out shopping [or whatever] at the [fill in the blank] on the corner of [wherever] and [whatever]. Someone in here just screamed 'He's got a gun' and they pointed at me. Maybe they saw the bulge of my gun or maybe my jacket snagged and lifted up exposing my gun. I'm really not sure. In any event, I wanted to call to get an officer out here. I know you guys are probably already getting another 9-1-1 call because someone screamed 'He's got a gun'."

The operator should not have any sort of confrontational or challenging attitude like, "Why are you bothering me with this? What is the problem? Why are you abusing 9-1-1?" etc. They should be able to figure this out and know they need to send out an officer. However, because YOU called 9-1-1, it's going to tend to reduce the "alert factor" so the cops might possibly be less guarded than they would with a generic "man with a gun" call. Also because of the perception that "bad guys don't call 9-1-1", you are much less at risk of being hassled for flashing. Still might get a talking to, still will get asked to produce a Driver's License and CCW license, still might get run for Wants and Warrants.

[GRIZ22]

As a LEO in plain clothes I have been approached by other LEOs after someone had seen my gun which I had inadvertantly unconcealed and noticed by someone. You need to keep your hands where the LEOs can see them do what they tell you and ask before you do anything.

I realize in many states open carry is permitted and have lived in a few of them. I can't understand the fascination of some who have a CC permit and insist on carrying in the open (where legal). Is it a macho "I've got a gun" thing. I'm not talking about areas where it's commonly seen (I did live in AZ) but those who insist on carrying in the open, when they have a CC permit in places where it's not often seen. Are you trying to get the anti-gunners something to complain about?

Since retiring my state issues a permit "to carry" no requirement to conceal but I know if I was caught carrying it in the open without a security guard uniform I'd probably wind up losing my permit.

[gunsmith]

why people need to read newspapers out in the open, oh I know they have the right to, they must be macho or something.
The other day I saw someone carrying a bible! right out in the open!
I know they have the right to, but please! the next thing they will be open carrying Korans and Torah's!
I saw four people talking about GW and Jesus and Allah and talking about Kerry too!
Were they trying to get the anti-assembly & free speechers something to complain about?
We all know that women wear skirts to get men to attack them, that black men hold hands with their white girlfriends just to anger klansmen

I don't open carry because I never see it done in Reno, you see people (like me) barely concealing...I want my rights restored so I can tuck my dang shirt in and show off my 100$ Belt!!! and matching holster.

if you were wearing a Mernickle you would want to show off yer good taste too!
http://www.mernickleholsters.com/bm_belts.html

[Bily Lovec]

isnt it kinda "stupid" to open carry ?
If Im a bad guy and Im about to rob the 7-11 you're buying a slurpie and hotdog in, my first order of business will be a 115+P+ in the back of your head. :eek:

but thats just me :neener:

[WayneConrad]

gunsmith, Brilliant!

Bily, Could be. But it must be awfully rare for people carrying openly to become targets, because we have a scarcity of known instances of it happening.

Same thing for "someone will come up and grab your gun." This doesn't even happen to police. What happens to police is, "As long as we're grappling, I guess I'll take your gun." Do citizens go around grappling with bad guys?

It's just as likely that carrying openly serves as a deterrent to crime. We have no good evidence for that, either.

[ID_shooting]

Leanwolf,

This was a couple years back at Hastings on Fairview. P3AT in front pocket with belt clip.

[Bergerboy]

Carrying openly is a Right. Rights that aren't exercised are generally the first to be "revoked".

It may stir the pot a bit, but carrying openly can also educate people to the fact that people ARE legally able to carry guns, able to carry them openly, and that not all people that carry guns are criminals.

The "open-carry makes you the criminal's first target" point can be argued both ways.

[boilingleadbath]

Bily's reaction in his described scenario sounds like it'd be atypical.
I mean, criminals may be deranged, but they arn't compleate idiots - they know that 1) murder gets them in more trouble than "mere" armed robbery and 2) you will eventualy leave the store.

So, I suspect the vast majority will just wait.
Or, of course, if they don't notice your firearm... well, they wouldn't have noticed it if it was conceled, either.

[Leanwolf]

ID SHOOTING - "This was a couple years back at Hastings on Fairview. P3AT in front pocket with belt clip."

ID S., thank you. Yep, I've been in Hastings there on Fairview, too, but as you, it's been a couple or three years.

Good luck.

L.W.

[Sheldon J]

Show them my CCW, that is after they arrest the pick pocket because that is the only way they are going to make my pancake.

[orionengnr]

If Im a bad guy and Im about to rob the 7-11 you're buying a slurpie and hotdog in, my first order of business will be a 115+P+ in the back of your head.

Hmm..I think that if you are a bad guy, your first thought will either be:

--There's another 7-11 up the street. Think I'll try my luck there. Or:
--Maybe I'll come back in 15 minutes.

(Most) stupid criminals understand the difference between armed robbery and Murder 1.


Oh, and BTW...how many BGs spend the money for high-quality ammo?

[Ryder]

The police come? Why would you hang around waiting for them? I ignore strangers who can't mind their own business. I don't owe them my time or attention.

[bogie]

One of the reasons I think that concealed should MEAN concealed is an exchange I had with a fellow back during the Missouri ballot referendum for CCW... He maintained that if he was, for instance, out in a restaurant, and he saw someone who had a concealed handgun, he'd grab a steak knife and kill them before they could harm someone. He completely, even after numerous attempts, failed to grasp the concept that the person carrying the handgun would not have an intention of harming someone.

That's the kinda person I watch out for.

[Doug.38PR]

He maintained that if he was, for instance, out in a restaurant, and he saw someone who had a concealed handgun, he'd grab a steak knife and kill them before they could harm someone. He completely, even after numerous attempts, failed to grasp the concept that the person carrying the handgun would not have an intention of harming someone.

Ask him what he is going to do when he searches the body of the "evil gun guy" he just stabbed to death and finds a policeman's badge?

[gunsmith]

He maintained that if he was, for instance, out in a restaurant, and he saw someone who had a concealed handgun, he'd grab a steak knife and kill them before they could harm someone. He completely, even after numerous attempts, failed to grasp the concept that the person carrying the handgun would not have an intention of harming someone.

I bet you he also claims he is a navysealspecialforcesgreenberet and can kill with his super mind control powers too.:neener:

WayneConrad gunsmith, Brilliant!

Why...thanks! you are obviously a very smart person with excellent taste!

[Big Gay Al]

One of the reasons I think that concealed should MEAN concealed is an exchange I had with a fellow back during the Missouri ballot referendum for CCW... He maintained that if he was, for instance, out in a restaurant, and he saw someone who had a concealed handgun, he'd grab a steak knife and kill them before they could harm someone. He completely, even after numerous attempts, failed to grasp the concept that the person carrying the handgun would not have an intention of harming someone.
He also apparently failed to grasp the concept that HE would be committing murder, not self-defense homicide.

That guy better stay out of Virginia then. He could walk into a restaurant full of gun toting people, with all of them showing too!

[buck00]

Back in 1995 President Clinton was on his way to visit the small state school in Kutztown, PA. Along the route, there were people watching the motorcade and waving, etc.

Along the road, the cops noticed a man with a small bulge on his hip (under clothing) who was watching the motorcade. The motorcade had already totally passed by the man, who was quietly watching like everyone else. A police officer then decided to sprint at full speed and tackle the man to the ground, and handcuff him. They found a pistol on him but also found out he had a valid CCW license. They took him in for questioning. The local papers commended the police for their "quick thinking" and "awareness." The man was released; no charges, no apology.

The moral of the story? Make sure your concealed pistol isn't budging or you risk getting tackled? I'm not sure.

[Art Eatman]

The moral of all of the above is that we live in a real world with real laws and real people. Not all the laws are necessarily right and proper by our standards, but they exist. Not all people--cop or non-cop--are rational about firearms, but these people exist.

It does little good to vent about one's rights on the Internet if one makes no effort toward getting laws re-written. And the saddest words you'll ever hear as somebody is being hauled off to the juzga'o is, "You can't do this!"; his lawyer will explain that they can and obviously they did.

Being circumspect about your concealed carry doesn't mean anything more than that you're judicious about daily life. It's merely working within the real-world system as it exists. It doesn't mean you've quit fighting foolishness; it means you're smart enough to pick your time and place for any battles, as any good guerilla leader knows.

Art

[Doug.38PR]

How true.

[Tall Man]

It does little good to vent about one's rights on the Internet if one makes no effort toward getting laws re-written.

Maybe we're just (expletive) tired of having to constantly interrupt our lawful lives to chase an issue that shouldn't need chased. Maybe there's just no time or money left after earning a living and cutting the grass and reading a bedtime story to organize a protest in front of a particular legislator's district office. Maybe, having gone through the demeaning process of obtaining a carry permit in the land of the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution, our expectation of being protected from the boorish actions of a militarized law enforcement community and/or the ignorant populace at large should be a valid expectation.

Yes, concealed means concealed, and "printing" can bring about unfortunate behaviors from others. There's no harm in saying that the battle is tiring (and it is a battle, based on real-world outcomes brought about when one's shirt rides up.) We will keep fighting.

TM