.30 Carbine vs .357 magnum


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hqmhqm
November 4, 2006, 10:07 PM
Does anyone have a quick comparison of how typical factory.30 carbine cartridge compares with .357 magnum?

I am interested in an M1, and am wondering how it will compare with my .357 Marlin 1894C in terms of power, accuracy out to 100 yards or further, and recoil.

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SoCalShooter
November 4, 2006, 10:09 PM
You say M1 and that means Garand to me? We on the same page here? Cause a 30-06 from an M1 is nowhere near similiar to a .357mag.

I am sure you mean m1 carbine which is still a rifle round and has a higher velocity than the .357mag.

GooseGestapo
November 4, 2006, 10:14 PM
Actually, the velocities are quite close from a rifle (comparing APPLES TO APPLES).

The .30 Carbine fires a 110gr RN FMJ to about 1,900fps
The .357mag Carbine fires a 158gr JHP of JSP to about 1,900fps.

I get 2,050fps with a 158gr Rem JHP over 18.0gr of Hod LilGun and CCI mag SP primer.

So, there is a small but distinct advantage to the .357mag in a rifle.

SaxonPig
November 4, 2006, 10:17 PM
I would think that 125 grain .357s would clock about 1800FPS or so from a carbine barrel. The .30 Carbine shoots a 110 at around 2,000. The .357 would present a greater frontal area. It would probably be fairly close on paper. In the real world the .357 would likely hit harder.

Neither would produce much in the way of recoil. Neither would be a match rifle.

SoCalShooter
November 4, 2006, 11:25 PM
Wow I never knew any of that, what about the velocities from a 4 or 6 inch pistol barrel?

R.W.Dale
November 4, 2006, 11:38 PM
With 110 grn projectiles in carbines the .357 will probably have a slight velocity advantage. Of course the 30 carbine is maxed out with reguards to bullet weight at 110grs where the .357 mag is just getting started and goes up over 180grns. And then theres the advantage in that MOST 357 carbines will also fire 38 spcl ammo.

The same also applies to .357 vs 30 carbine chambered revolvers.

In terms of recoil neither really have any. Accuracy is gonna depend on the individual gun not the cartrige. Although most report getting wonderfull accuracy from the little marlins. Power hands down the 357.

Nightcrawler
November 4, 2006, 11:43 PM
The idea that .30 carbine and .357 Magnum are equals is a myth, in my opinion. In .30 Carbine, you have two loads available. A 110 grain round-nose FMJ at 1,900 FPS (from the 18" barrel), and a 110 grain jacketed soft point at the same velocity that's probably marginally better. (I think Cor-Bon now makes better ammo, though.)

With the .357 Magnum and proper loads, you can exceed .30-30 levels from an 18" barrel. (Buffalo Bore Ammo) Even with standard loads, you get a big increase in velocity going to the long barrel. Combine that with better bullet types, and a larger, heavier slug, and you've got the winner.

On the other hand, the carbine will give you 15+1 shots, whereas an 18" lever carbine is good for 9 or 10+1. The carbine is faster to reload, too.

Do you want an autoloader or a levergun? That should be the first decision, I think.

Lone_Gunman
November 4, 2006, 11:52 PM
I have always wondered why instead of inventing the 30 carbine cartridge, they didnt just make a rimless 357 magnum and use that in the M1 Carbine.

It would have made the M1 Carbine a little better I believe in terms of terminal ballistics, and I bet smith and wesson would have made a revolver that could fire it in moon clips.

Gordon
November 5, 2006, 12:17 AM
In actual use, they are quite close, equal bullet construction given. The .357 starts to run away with the heavier (158 grain up) bullets on bigger game though!;)

Cosmoline
November 5, 2006, 12:31 AM
No contest. The .357 can fire up to a 200 grain slug, and has a substantial velocity pickup in the carbine barrel. The M1 carbine has a much more limited bullet selection and weight range, and hits with a lot less force with a smaller bullet.

Outlaws
November 5, 2006, 11:47 AM
I just know my old model Blackhawk in .30 Carbine makes a very cool "zipping" zing sound that my .357 doesn't make. Is it worth the extra money on ammo? Thats up to you, but I like the little sucker. :D

swampgator
November 5, 2006, 12:14 PM
I have always wondered why instead of inventing the 30 carbine cartridge, they didnt just make a rimless 357 magnum and use that in the M1 Carbine.

The carbine being a US Military idea it had to be .30 caliber? That's my take on it.

USSR
November 5, 2006, 05:15 PM
You ain't gonna kill anything bigger or badder with one of these cartridges over the other, so take your pick.

Don

achildofthesky
November 8, 2006, 08:05 PM
My marlin 1894 ltd edition 357 with a 16 1/2" chrono averaged about 2020fps with federal 357 mag 125 gr hollowpoints (the 125's in the 50 to a box, nothing real special) and it comes to 1132 ft-lbs energy. Not too shabby for a stubbie little rifle...

Patty

RH822
November 8, 2006, 08:18 PM
You say M1 and that means Garand to me? We on the same page here? Cause a 30-06 from an M1 is nowhere near similiar to a .357mag.

I am sure you mean m1 carbine which is still a rifle round and has a higher velocity than the .357mag.

????
Did you bother to read the title of this thread.

.30 Carbine vs .357 magnum

115grfmj
November 16, 2006, 02:53 PM
IMHO......the .357 from a rifle is better at all ranges.....just look at the balistics......Besides Marlin doesn't make a 1894 in 30 carbine;)

razorburn
November 16, 2006, 03:17 PM
Yeah, there's .357 loads with 125 grainers clocking 2,300 fps out of a carbine, or 158 going 2150.

rockstar.esq
November 16, 2006, 03:29 PM
I've considered them to be equals on the grounds that the .30 carbine could be handloaded and tweaked to perform better. The .357 Mag has a lot more versatility in availible commercial ammo. Given that most snub revo fans felt the earth stopped moving when j frame .357's came out the .357 will be with us for a long time. The .30 carbine is catch as catch can. Sure we all know what it is, but honestly how many stores within 5 miles will have it on the shelf? Compared to the .357 mag there's just no contest. Now that I think about it, isn't it interesting that the Ruger "Ranch Rifle" isn't so chambered? Odd that they chamber the friggin Blackhawk in it yet they don't offer an "M1 carbine adjacent" rifle chambered in such an easy caliber for the purpose. Oh well I guess that's what I get for thinking (prohibited by Ruger doctrine)...

Bwana John
November 16, 2006, 04:40 PM
I wonder what a .357 mag would do loaded to 30 cal carbine pressures? :what:

bowfin
November 16, 2006, 05:39 PM
I wonder if anyone has toyed around with the Hornady 90 grain HP/XTP loaded into a .30 Carbine. The velocity edge might slip back to the carbine with that bullet.

Dionysusigma
November 16, 2006, 07:12 PM
What if Hornady made a .357 LeverRevolution cartridge?

High Planes Drifter
November 16, 2006, 08:42 PM
Dion, personally I dont see that happening being that the .357 is primarily used as a handgun cartridge.

That being said, I'd still go with the .357 carbine over the M1 carbine.

epijunkie67
November 17, 2006, 12:24 AM
Dionysusigma What if Hornady made a .357 LeverRevolution cartridge?

Ain't gonna happen. I wrote and asked them this exact question when they first came out and they wrote back and said they had no intention of making leverevolution in .357 magnum. Said the ogive was too small.

As for the question at hand. This was recently discussed in this thread.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2842215#post2842215

And here is my post comparing the two rounds copied here.

The .357 magnum round out of a carbine is more powerful than a 30 carbine round at all distances. For a quick and dirty comparison I pulled up the ballistics on both rounds from the winchester site.

Rifle Ballistics for .357 magnum with 158 gr. Super-X Jacketed Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.) Trajectory Short , Long (in.)
Muzzle...............1830...............1175............................-..............-
50 .....................-................... -............................. 0.0............ -
100...................1427................715..........................-2.4 ............0
150 ....................-.................... - ...........................-9.1......... -5.5
200....................1138...............454...........................-21..........-16.2
250 ....................- ....................-- ..........................-39.2 ......-33.1

Rifle Ballistics for 30 carbine with 110 gr. Super-X Hollow Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.) Trajectory Short , Long (in.)
Muzzle...............1990..............967.................................-...........-
50 ......................- .................- .................................0.9 .........-
100...................1567..............600................................ 0.......... 0
150 ....................- ..................- ................................-4.5 .....-4.5
200...................1236...............373.............................-13.5.....-13.5
250 ....................- .................-- ..............................-28.3 ....-28.3

And yes, these are rifle ballistics, not pistol. For comparison here are the pistol ballistics from the same web site.

Handgun Ballistics for .357 magnum with 158 gr. Super-X Jacketed Soft Point
Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.)
Muzzle...............1235..............535
50.....................1104..............428
100....................1015.............361

And just for fun the energy levels of a 44 magnum out of a pistol to compare it all with using a 240 gr. Super-X Hollow Soft Point

Distance (yds) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft.lbs.)
Muzzle........................1180......................741
50..............................1081......................623

Notice, the .357 magnum round out of a lever rifle has more energy at the muzzle than a 44 mag out of a pistol does. In fact, it has almost as much energy at 100 yards as a 44 mag does at the muzzle out of a pistol. I've never heard anyone complain about their 44 mag revolver not having enough "take down power".

22/22mag
November 17, 2006, 02:25 AM
I would like a .357 semi-auto it would be a great all around rifle but till then my M1 .30 carbines are lightweight and easy to shoot very well ask some WW11 deutschlanders what they thought about the .30 carbine.

I have started to stray from the Big bullets and my large heavy rifles.

With foldings stocks on my M1 carbine and Mini-14s and a bunch of 15-30 rd mags I am ready for HD or to move quickly out of a Katrina calamity.Folded stock and carried on a sling ready for protection against ZOMBIES!

Henry Bowman
November 17, 2006, 04:03 PM
On the other hand, the carbine will give you 15+1 shotsAlthough some will report other results, I have found the 30 round mags (for M1 carbine) to feed reliably.

ZeSpectre
November 17, 2006, 04:22 PM
Actually, the velocities are quite close from a rifle (comparing APPLES TO APPLES).

The .30 Carbine fires a 110gr RN FMJ to about 1,900fps
The .357mag Carbine fires a 158gr JHP of JSP to about 1,900fps.

I get 2,050fps with a 158gr Rem JHP over 18.0gr of Hod LilGun and CCI mag SP primer.

So, there is a small but distinct advantage to the .357mag in a rifle.

Yup, I'd have to second that conclusion (in my case after firing a .30 carbine and then my Rossi 92 SRC).

As fun as semi-auto guns are... I still love the levergun. 'Course I've never had to fight a war either so let's not go there.

DFW1911
November 17, 2006, 06:37 PM
As I read this post I'm wondering why the M-1 Carbine has such a limited amount of loads available for it? I'm not a ballistics / reloading guy, so I really have no idea.

Is there something inherently flawed or wrong w/ the design to limit it to 110 grain bullets? Seems like the M1 could be a great platform for a variety of loads.

Thanks, and thanks for the info thus far.

Take care,
DFW1911

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