Talk me [into|out of] an SU-16 a, b or C


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Nitrogen
November 5, 2006, 10:17 PM
I am saving about 800 for an AR-15 build, but I got to handle a Kel-tec SU-16C and actually didn't mind it.

Any of you guys shoot one? How accurate and reliable are they? Would they stand up to a rugged situation, or would I really be better off waiting and getting an AR?

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geronimo13
November 5, 2006, 10:57 PM
I,ve got a su 16 ca and love it. Go to the owners group @http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105;action=messageindex;start=20
and read up. Shot about 2000 rounds thru mine. I find them very interesting in that they have a built in bi-pod (I use all the time in prone or off a bench to get good accuracy), you can store a 30 round mag, or 2-10 round mags in the butt stock space, and of course it can fold up to stick in a back pack or trunk and weighs under 5lb.s. My accuracy scoped, w/bipods down laying prone is around 2-3 inches @ 100yards. (I have done 7 shot 1-3./4in group-handloads, but I am a beginner shooter). They are pretty reliable but some have to have the bugs works out to get that way. I think an Ar 15 is sturdier, slightly more accurate, more expensive (paid $575 NIB). So if you want a superlight assault rifle then the keltec is it. If you want a sturdy battle rifle the AR or AK would be it. Oh and the guys @ keltec are the best hands down. No questions asked- lifetime warranty. If thats important.

browningguy
November 5, 2006, 11:05 PM
I like mine a lot, if i was doing it over I'd get a C or CA model for the better sights and different barrel profile.

But it's not going to be as accurate as a $800+ AR. My SU shoots 2.5" groups with most ammo, does really great (1.2-1.4")with the Black Hills 52 gr. Moly, which unfortunately they don't seem to be making right now. They are very reliable, but probably not as sturdy as an AR. If you make a habit of butt stroking your shooting buddies maybe look for something different.

I also have an AR with a .50 Beowulf and 6x45 uppers. Completely different animals and really don't compare at all to the SU. The main advantages to the SU for me are light weight, piston operated (stays cleaner), uses AR mags.

Shifty
November 6, 2006, 12:17 AM
sturdier than they get credit for. and since none of the polymer parts are stressed, even if it cracks all to hell and back it will still work. get the C or CA model hands down. very rugged simple little carbine.

B yond
November 6, 2006, 11:51 AM
I've got the Alpha model, and I love it. I was worried if was going to be flimsy when I first got it but it's more rugged than you'd expect. Just don't go around butt-stroking things with it.

Accuracy is better than a Mini-14, but not quite what you'd get out of a well-tuned AR. It's very lightweight, which is why I like it so much, and recoil is practically nonexistent (read: very fast follow-up shots).

My rifle was one of the earlier productions, and the mags it came with had problems holding onto the ammo in warm weather, but Kel-Tec replaced them for free. Doesn't matter too much because I prefer AR mags in it anyway.

They fold to fit just about anywhere, are great in a backpack when hiking or camping. They come apart easily for cleaning and don't get dirty as fast as an AR.

Not a battle rifle, but a very good little utility rifle.

If you live in a "free" state, be sure to check out the delta model and the PLR-16, which is a pistol version.
http://www.kel-tec.com/images/sub16d_pic01.jpg
http://www.kel-tec.com/images/plr16_pic03.gif

Lonestar
November 6, 2006, 12:15 PM
Want a reason NOT to purchase a Kel-Tec .223, check this link. There has been a recent rash of Kabooms on KTOG one PLR and two SU-16. I'm holding out until it is all figured out.

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=105;action=display;num=1158646481

Shifty
November 6, 2006, 01:54 PM
i think its pretty obvious that was a squib round that someone didnt notice. and being made of polymer, the vented gas just blew the body apart.

the su-16s action itself is as strong and simple as an AR's

Shifty
November 6, 2006, 02:02 PM
but having said that, yea i guess knowing that your rifle could do that in the event of a malfunction is pretty scary.

sefus
November 6, 2006, 03:27 PM
I looked into them for a while and really liked what I saw. Now with AR uppers, lowers, and whatnot avalible from a few different sources for a combined total of $500, its a bit harder decision. Just going off of my research and how much I like my Sub 2000, if I found one for the right price I wouldnt hesitate to pick it up.

silverlance
November 6, 2006, 04:27 PM
525 nib 625 OTD.
compact fore-end 45
sling & swivels 35
levang compensator & washer 40
sks reticle barska 4x21 scope (a very good scope, i highly recommend it) 90
rings 20
cheapie tactical light 35
grandfathered colt ar15 20 round magazines "FREE"

total: ~$850

I got my Ar15 stolen last year and I was distraught for the longest time as I cannot replace it here in CA. The su16ca has made me feel much better. that said comparing the two rifles is like the proverbial apples and oranges.

One is a battle-capable rifle that is accurate, very easy to dissassemble, and can be mistreated for quite some time before damage becomes an issue.

The other is a civil-disturbance capable rifle that is accurate, very light to carry, and is legal to own even in the captive states.

Would I trade my su16 for an xm15e2s in a similar configuration?

No, because I'd like to have both.

I see it this way -

For the great revolution against alien invaders from Xentron 9, I'd prefer the AR15.

For riots, floods, earthquakes, fires, and other temporary catastrophes, I'd rather carry the SU16.

For the night of zombies on earth, I'd pop the CA out of my FAL :)

Shameless plug: I'm selling hoarded DMPS Levang compensators!

sefus
November 6, 2006, 05:10 PM
lowers for less than $200-
www.lonestarwholesale.com/2.html

Uppers for $400
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR115-47462-1888.html

Can easily spend more decking it out with stuff but here is everything to make it go boom.

Drakejake
November 6, 2006, 06:15 PM
I considered buying the SU-16 but went instead with the Mini 14, which I felt was stronger, more durable, and more reliable. I have not regretted that decision. With the folding stock, it is quite compact. I subsequently bought a DPMS Panther Lite AR-15 ($639) which I like very much. In retrospect, I think a light weight AR with a collapsing stock is probably a better choice over both the Mini 14 and the SU-16. Might cost a LITTLE more but this is a proven and universal design which allows you to customize with different uppers without going through an FFL.

Drakejake

artech
November 7, 2006, 07:51 AM
Howdy.
I have a SU-16A that I got a few years ago. Prior to this I have had extensive experience with the AR15 family of rifles. I like them both for different reasons.

The AR is definitely more solidly built. While it won't tolerate dirt like an SU, a typical AR will outshoot a typical SU in my experience. The AR is heavier, even in the lightweight configurations, than an SU. The sights on an AR are superior, especially on the A2 models, than the SU sights, but the B model SU is close to the A1 model AR. If you use a scope then the iron sights are a moot point anyway. I removed mine since I had no intention of using them on this rifle.

The SU's best quality is the light weight. My A model rides very comfortably in a cheap case, and case, rifle, scope, and 4 full 30 round mags weigh less than 6 pounds. I also REALLY like the built in bipod on the SU, it makes the light rifle shoot like a heavier unit. Again, the AR will outshoot the SU off a bipod, but the bipod is already integral on the SU and an AR bipod adds even more weight to an AR.

The SU rifles remind me a lot of the M1 carbine; light, handy, short, and easy to carry but with the added benefit of a real cartridge. I like the extra features of the SU and appreciate the piston driven gas system, which simplifies maintenance as the gas does not enter the reciever. If they would only phosphate the SU's and chrome line the barrels they would be just perfect!

Hope this helps.

MillCreek
November 7, 2006, 08:52 AM
I have a couple of AR-15s and one Mini-14. I admit that I have been thinking about the SU-16 just as a kind of 'fun gun' in .223. Something like this would have been just perfect in 'Shaun of the Dead', which I saw for the first time just the other night on Comedy Central. 'They were a bit bitey': hilarious.

PS: I have looked on the Kel-Tec site: what are the major differences between the 'C' and 'CA' models? Is the different folding stock about it?

B yond
November 7, 2006, 10:06 AM
what are the major differences between the 'C' and 'CA' models? Is the different folding stock about it?

Yup. IIRC the CA model is supposed to be the C model without any features California considers 'evil.'

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