I need help!!!


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smokeshow_99
November 6, 2006, 01:27 AM
I am looking for information more than anything. I am new to the whole firearms thing. I went hunting for the first time last year and I am now hooked. I used a Rem700 7mm08 last year. The only other rifles I have shot are a 22 and a Browning 22-250.
Many people have told me to buy many different guns such as 30-06, .308, 7mm 08, .270, ect. I don't really know much about any of these so if anyone can give me a hint on what would be good for me to buy I would really appreciate it.
I live and hunt in VT, and plan on hunting mainly whitetail and possibly moose if I get a permit. My experience is somewhat limited. I am not sure what a 7mm 08 compares to as far as kick goes but I wouldn't want too much more than that.
I also will need to get a descent scope with the gun and am looking for suggestions on this as well. I want to spend between $500-$600 on everything. Everyone that I have spoken to has suggested Remington 700 and I think I will probably stick with that unless anyone has any complaints on them. Thanks for the help in advance.

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RNB65
November 6, 2006, 01:44 AM
The classic deer hunting rifle would probably be a Rem 700 in 30-06 cal with a 3-9X scope (such as the Burris Fullfield II).

30-06 is pretty hard on the shoulder, but you would need it to hunt moose. Something ligher, such as the 7.62x39, .243 Win, .25-06, 6mm Rem, or 7mm-08, would be plenty for deer.

Here is a chart which lets you compare recoil of different calibers:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

carnaby
November 6, 2006, 01:45 AM
Well, since you mention Moose, I like the .300 win mag. That's my first bolt action rifle, and I'm hooked. All it needed is a limbsaver recoil pad and recoil is just fine. I load my own ammo for it, so I can load it up or down, and it's way cheaper than factory for a superior bullet. You can use big honking moose busting bullets, or light flat shooting long range deer bullets. You can create "youth loads" if you don't like the recoil or a woman/youngster is going to shoot the rifle. I've done all this with a $150 setup from Lee.

I've got the Savage 110GXP3 package for about $450, but the Simmons scope that comes with it is a little cheap, so I replaced it with a Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40 for $125. Much nicer optics. If you can't get a good deal on that one at the store, pm JDyer here on the forum and he'll hook you up.

Took my first ever deer with it a couple weeks ago with a mighty 30 :P yard neck shot using a 180gn Sierra Game King and 66gn Hodgdon H4350

http://vger.aa.washington.edu/triplett/hunting/deer_2006.jpg

smokeshow_99
November 6, 2006, 02:45 AM
Thanks for the comments so far, however I was told that the 30-06 had a prettty good kick. Since I have never shot one before I am pretty much left in the dark. A guy I know that has been hunting all his life told me he got rid of his 30-06 for a .270 because he didn't like the kick it had, and he shot a moose with that this year.
I am just confused with all the different options out there and trying to pick the gun that is "right" for me. I liked the 7mm 08 that I shot but people keep mentioning that I should get the 30-06, .308, or .270.
By the way that's a nice looking buck Carnaby!

dakotasin
November 6, 2006, 07:35 AM
the 7-08 is a very underappreciated round. it is a fantastic deer round, and i suppose it could be made to work for moose, though it isn't ideal. if you want to stay at approximately the same recoil level, and have a little extra insurance for moose, a 308 is a good one. however... i'd suggest you stick w/ your original plan - its a good one. for your scope, don't cheap out too much. a cheap scope will leave you frustrated. get as much scope as you can afford. if you spend $400 on your rifle, look to leupold vx-1, bushnell 3200, or even the burris fullfield for a scope that won't break your budget - something along the lines of a 2-7 or even a 3-9.

good luck, and enjoy!

carnaby
November 6, 2006, 11:30 AM
I dunno, I shot a .30-06 when I was about 12, and with proper technique it didn't seem that bad. My .300 win mag used to worry me, but I've gotten used to it and I don't mind the recoil any more in the least.

The #1 thing that helped was getting rid of that hockey puck recoil pad that the rifle shipped with and replacing it with a limbsaver. All the difference in the world. That, and you can either load your own light rounds to get started, or you can buy Remington "Managed Recoil" ammo, which drops .30-06 recoil down to nearly .30-30 or so.

browningguy
November 6, 2006, 12:09 PM
7mm-08, 7x57, .270 Win., .280 Rem., .308 Win, .300 Savage, couldn't go wrong with any of those. For Moose I'd use heavy for caliber bullets, 154-160 gr. for the 7mm's, 150 for the .270/280, amd 165's for the 30 cal.'s. Or alternatively use something like the Barnes TSX in a standard weight.

Froggy
November 6, 2006, 12:50 PM
Many people have told me to buy many different guns such as 30-06, .308, 7mm 08, .270, ect. I don't really know much about any of these so if anyone can give me a hint on what would be good for me to buy I would really appreciate it.

Asking for recommendations on gun or cartridge is often like asking a bunch of truck enthusiasts whether they prefer Chevy or Ford. We all have our favorite... opinions vary and there is very often no "right" answer.

That said, my 2d is that the all four of your choices will do well. If using the .270 choose heavy bullets for moose. Of the four you list, my favorite is the .308, but that 7mm-08 is getting a lot of good reviews -- flat trajctory and moderate recoil with a good selection of bullet weights available.

I was told that the 30-06 had a prettty good kick. Since I have never shot one before I am pretty much left in the dark. A guy I know that has been hunting all his life told me he got rid of his 30-06 for a .270 because he didn't like the kick it had...

Yes... in order from least kick to most kick, using a MV of about 3,000 fps, gun weight of 8 lbs), they go:

- 7mm-08 (12.4 ft/lbs)
- .308 (16.3 ft/lbs)
- .270 (16.8 ft/lbs)
- .30-06 (18.64 ft/lbs)

Some people use the 20 ft/lbs mark as the limit of "comfortable" recoil. Anything over that is considered "a lot of kick." There is a difference between measured recoil and "felt" recoil... you can do things to help mitigate the unpleasant effects of "felt" recoil. Stock design is a big part of it. Gun weight is another big part of it (if getting a .30-06, for example, get one that is heavier than one chambered for 7mm-08). You can also get recoil pads you strap onto your shoulder, or sewn onto a jacket, or the kind that slip on over the butt of the rifle.

I see RNB65 gave you the link to Chuck Hawk's page on compartive recoil. Browse through these pages as well for information that might help you select a cartridge:

Matching Gun to Game (http://www.chuckhawks.com/gun_game.htm)

Hunting Bullet Guide (http://www.chuckhawks.com/hunting_bullet_guide1.htm)

General Reading (http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2d.rifles.htm) (scroll down to the part where he discusses selecting and buying rifles.

Everyone that I have spoken to has suggested Remington 700 and I think I will probably stick with that unless anyone has any complaints on them.

Remingtons are good rifles and one I have is my favorite "deer rifle." But you can get guns that are (arguably) just as good for less money. Take a look at this Thread on Remington Rifles (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=230210)

C-grunt
November 6, 2006, 01:04 PM
I think that the Remington 700 is an excellent rifle. I have recently made the switch to the Savage series though. The Accutrigger on the Savage rifles is amazing and is adjustable by you in a couple minutes.

I agree with the advice to buy a good scope. I believe that it is better to buy an ok rifle with a great scope than a great rifle with an ok scope. I really like Leupold scopes as they are very tough scopes.

MDHunter
November 6, 2006, 01:48 PM
Given your criteria, my recommendation would be as follows:

Savage 110 bolt action in .308 with a Leupold Vari-X II 2-7x or 3-9x scope. Not much more recoil than the 7MM-08, but big enough for moose if you draw a tag, and the Savages are great bargains and nice shooters to boot. I lived in Alaska when I was younger, and we shot many moose and caribou with .308, and I started shooting it when I was 11, so you can easily handle the recoil. You could use 150 grain bullets for the deer and 180 for the moose, and you're good to go.

The Remington 700s are fine, a little more expensive than the Savage tho.

My advice, worth about what it cost you, but good luck and glad to have you!

Michael

Stickjockey
November 6, 2006, 02:02 PM
My hunting rifles are a Ruger M-77 in .30-06 and a Savage 99 in .300 Savage. I don't find the -06 so bad, but then I'm a fairly large guy.

Where are you, just out of curiosity? Maybe you've got some HighRoaders nearby that could get together and let you try a few out.

Essex County
November 6, 2006, 02:14 PM
I wouldn't hesitate to use my 7-08 on moose. I know of a number that have fallen to lesser cartridges. Light recoil makes for better shot placement. Essex

smokeshow_99
November 6, 2006, 10:08 PM
Ok, tomorrow I am going with my friend in the morning to shoot a couple of his rifles. One is a Rem .270, and the other is a .300. Maybe this will help a little bit. Another friend was talking to a guy he knows who is a dealer and he gave me some prices on a couple guns. Let me know what you think.

1- Savage Accutrigger .308 with hard case and 3-9 scope $450

2- Rem 700 ADL 30-06 Synthetic stock with unknown scope $400

3- Savage 111 with unknown scope and sling in 30-06, .270, or 7 mag $375

Oh ya, I should probably get one soon since rifle season starts on Friday!! Thanks for all the helpful info so far!

The Medic
November 8, 2006, 06:19 PM
Those prices are all more than competitive; so much so that I'd say these are probably used rifles. Am I right?

jthuang
November 8, 2006, 06:59 PM
Rem 700 ADL 30-06 Synthetic stock with unknown scope $400

In any case, I would say forget the scope. Any scope that comes on a $400 gun is not going to be a good one. Same for the rings. If you decide on this gun, tell the dealer you'll skip the scope and rings -- you can get better quality elsewhere.

I have a Rem 700 ADL Synthetic in .30-06 Springfield. It was purchased years ago, long before Remington started putting integral locks into their guns and all that nonsense.

This gun is light. It will kick pretty hard, depending on how recoil-sensitive you are. I don't find it that bad. It is much like shooting a 12 gauge shotgun with 00 slugs. Not too bad but not something you'd want to shoot all day either.

I think the Rem 700 (or Winchester Model 70, Ruger 77 or whatever -- pick one, any one) in .30-06 is the prototypical American hunting rifle. It will comfortably take any game available in the US. Ammo is available everywhere and you can even shoot cheap surplus from the CMP (Greek or Lake City). If you get into reloading, the .30-06 has a wide range of bullet weights that you can use to customize a load for your gun and your intended target.

BTW, if you want the option of a detachable magazine, go with the BDL. The ADL loads through the top of the receiver.

Oh, last thing: if you intend to swap out the stock on the Rem 700 ADL with a Bell & Carlson or some other aftermarket stock, don't buy this gun. The ADL long-action has very few aftermarket stocks available from the big-name stock makers. If you intend to swap it out, buy the BDL, and depending on your preferences, in short-action (i.e. .308 Winchester). LOTS more aftermarket stocks available for the BDL/short action platform. Check out Midwayusa.com if you want to see what's out there.

Justin

springmom
November 8, 2006, 07:08 PM
My youngest son has a 30-06 and yes, it has quite a kick. But there are things you can do about that; get a really good recoil pad on the gun, and use managed-recoil loads. And of course, you can get the barrel ported.

I have an older Remington 700 in .243 (I am a weenie about long gun recoil, LOL) and I love it. It's a classic bolt-action rifle. Mine has a super trigger, nice accuracy (I should be as good as the gun is!), not too heavy. I love it.

Happy shopping for your new rifle :D

Springmom

Critter183
November 8, 2006, 07:39 PM
For your first rifle, I'd go with the .308, simply because if you don't ever buy another rifle, you will have something that will fire one of the most common rounds available at the moment.

Shawnee
November 8, 2006, 08:09 PM
Hi Smoke...

Either the Ruger 77, the Remington 700, or the Savage 110 will be just fine.
Synthetic stocks and stainless steel are nice but not in any way necessary.

There are plenty of good scopes around. You will not need magnification higher than 7x. I would get the Leupold Vari-X II 2-7x in a half a heartbeat but other makes are good too. Do NOT (repeat: do NOT!) buy "see-thru" scope mounts. None! Nada! Zip! No Way Jose! :barf:

As another poster has already said - the 7mm-08 is a HUGELY underrated cartridge. With the heavier bullets it will be fine for moose.
I heartily recommend it because the ratio of it's power to it's recoil is about the most favorable you can find among standard cartridges.

No matter what cartridge you choose - it is where you place the bullet that counts and a rifle with modest recoil lets you do a better job of bullet placement. You could use a .460 Weatherby elephant gun on a deer but if you put the bullet in the wrong spot the deer will run off.

Just my 2 cents worth. Local opinions may vary. :)

smokeshow_99
November 9, 2006, 06:43 AM
Thanks for all the comments and advise. For the prices I quoted they were new rifles from a guy who deals part time from his house and I believe the scopes were either Nikkon or Lupold. Anyway I went and shot my friend's Rem 700 .270 the other day and fell in love with it. I went and bought my own yesterday and sighted it in today. I got the bolt action with wood stock and a Nikkon scope. I am very pleased. After I sighted it in I blew through about a case and a half of shells and was grouping within a half-n-inch. I would have ordered it through the guy I got the quotes through but it was going to take about a week to get it here and the season starts on Saturday so I wanted to get it, get it sighted, and put a few rounds through it before the season starts. Again thanks for all the help and I'm sure I will have more questions for you all soon enough!

X-Rap
November 9, 2006, 11:49 AM
If I were you I would get a loading manual and check bullet weight velocity and energy against what you already have no need to duplicate. In my view you have a fine caliber for all medium game animals until you hit the rocky mountains and are still probobly in good shape.My consideration would be for your moose. For that I would choose a Marlin Guide gun in either of the 45 cal rounds the 45-70 I believe being more common.I use mine for elk hunting timber and late season cow hunts when the range is usually under 150 yds.When starting a collection spread out to start with covering all the aspects bird, small game , varmints,medium and large game then fill in between. Have fun

Lupinus
November 9, 2006, 11:56 AM
I have a 700 in .270 wincester (winchester, not winchester short magnum, whole nother beastie)

The .270 win is basically a 30-06 necked down for a smaller bullet. Its good for most everything up to and including elk at reasonable range. I would personally be a bit weary of trying to take out a moose with it though even under prime conditions

I have a bad shoulder and with my past shoulder pad find the recoil very tolerable for bench shooting and going through quite a bit of ammo.

Legionnaire
November 9, 2006, 12:08 PM
My standard response to this type of question:

Go to the library or Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Rifles-Cartridges-Game-Clay-Harvey/dp/0696111225/sr=8-1/qid=1163088196/ref=sr_1_1/002-3699226-6659243?ie=UTF8&s=books) and get a copy of The Rifles, the Cartridges, and the Game by Clay Harvey. While it is a bit dated (1991), it provides an excellent discussion of the various cartridges and their suitability for different game. Also includes a section on what chamberings to buy if you're going to buy a limited number of rifles. It's an excellent reference.

My advice: decide on the cartridge first, and then find a rifle you like to launch it.

Froggy
November 9, 2006, 12:23 PM
I went and bought my own (Rem 700 in .270) yesterday and sighted it in today.

I think you'll be very happy with your choice. The next step is to start looking at the different bullet weights / loadings commercially available in that cartridge and matching them to your game and hunting conditions.

One place to start is right here. (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/results/default.aspx?type=centerfire&cal=17)

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