Make the case for the 5.56 AK types


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Boats
November 6, 2006, 04:11 PM
For some reason, I keep getting drawn to the idea of having one of these rifles. I am eyeing either an Arsenal Las Vegas or a Tromix. I am usually suspicious of a non-traditional chambering in a weapon. It would seem that 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 makes more sense, especially for cheaper mags, but I can't shake the thought that long-term, 5.56/.223 isn't under as much import threat/ shortage problems as the domestic caliber should the political winds change.

BTW, save the "get an AR" talk. I run hot and cold on them, and am decidedly chilly right now.:p

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Deer Hunter
November 6, 2006, 06:30 PM
I'm in the same boat, Boats. I'll be hopefully picking up a Siaga .223 this christmas. I love the idea of commercial ammo availibility and the reliability of an Ak-47.

Evil Monkey
November 6, 2006, 06:40 PM
Look, if ever a import ban on ammo was to be passed, which I HIGHLY doubt, somebody out there WILL, and I mean WILL capitalize on that particular ammo that isn't available anymore. Take for example 5.45mm soviet, there are no domestic companies that produce this round. If imports are no longer available, a company here in the US will start making 5.45mm just like they started making 7.62mm Soviet back 30 or so years ago.

Don't worry at all. Where there is demand, there is supply. (Is that how they say it?:o )

Boats
November 6, 2006, 07:01 PM
I understand supply and demand. However, even in 5.56, the low cost providers are Russians with steel cased ammo perfect for AK actions. Nevertheless, someday the war in Iraq will cool off or peter out and there will be a literal flood of surplus 5.56 or a desire to keep using excess 5.56 manufacturing capacity out there.

I just like the AK series rifles more than the ARs and Minis that commonly launch the round, but I don't know if in the "inaccurate" AK whether the 5.56 is worth the magazine bother over the AK's native chamberings.

roscoe
November 6, 2006, 07:10 PM
I love my .223 Saiga. It is accurate, inexpensive, durable, and comes in target-acquisition black. If it had a good peep sight, like a Krebs or Tomix, it would have all I ever would want.

Higher capacity mags are available, but expensive. Some say that the .223 is inherently more accurate because the barrel is stiffer. Tromix or Krebs can make you a nice one if you have the dough.

W.E.G.
November 6, 2006, 07:36 PM
A very good choice for a rugged rifle that will be a very rugged single-shot rifle if it is separated from the very-hard-to-get .223 AK-flavor magazines.

If you can keep up with the magazines, you won't be disappointed.

grimjaw
November 6, 2006, 07:47 PM
A very good choice for a rugged rifle that will be a very rugged single-shot rifle if it is separated from the very-hard-to-get .223 AK-flavor magazines.

I assume you mean the Saiga, because the Arsenal mags, although expensive compared to other AK mags, are relatively easy to find at dealers, online, and at gun shows.

jm

Dr.Rob
November 6, 2006, 08:24 PM
Norinco's 84S, Mak-90 and NHM-91 can all use the cheap AK74 mags without modification if you only load 20 rds.

There is info on AK47.net to convert them to load 30.

The factory steel 30 rd mags run as high as $40 a piece on a good day. They were never 'cheap.'

5 rounders and 20 rounders occasionaly show up for sale, along with a mystery 12 rounder.

I'm always keeping my eye open for them as I own one of these beasts. Mine only shipped with a sigle 5 rd mag. I spent a lot of money buying magazines.

If I were to buy a new 223 Ak, I'd be sure to get a dozen mags with it from the get-go.

MD_Willington
November 6, 2006, 09:02 PM
Saiga in .223 would make a great truck/ranch/plinking gun... I'm thinking about getting one for the family this Christmas. And If I get adventurous, I'll convert it to a full fledged EBR :evil:

Dave R
November 6, 2006, 11:31 PM
Make the case for the 5.56 AK typesI can make that case in two steps:

1. The AK is a rugged, durable, reliable rifle.

2. .223 ammo is plentiful and inexpensive. Virtually all domestic rifle ammo amnufacturers load it, and our military uses it.

A match made in heaven.

rangerruck
November 7, 2006, 12:08 AM
ive got the saiga, which is what tromix uses a lot in his conversions. I love this weapon, and would marry it, were I say ammo, or magazines. for 250 bucks, and change, i've got a very reliable, moa capable weapon. I will not speak for other ak types mfgrs, but i have had two saigas in 223, about 1.5 years apart, i have a 762.39 and a 308, and they are all moa capable, with the 223 being able to do it the most easy. Almost too easy. Scary for an ak.

mp510
November 7, 2006, 12:10 AM
I have seen gunshops selling 5.56 AK's in CT where AK's are banned. The dealers claim that the non 7.62x39 chambering are technically legal.

Dr.Rob
November 7, 2006, 12:10 AM
I never got down to 1 MOA with mine, but a 3 inch group at 100 yards isn't that hard.

Captain Insano
November 7, 2006, 01:03 PM
My customized Sar3 is my favorite rifle.

*100% reliability even using my nasty reloads
*two-inch groups at 100 yards from cold barrel
*practically zero muzzle flip allows me to see the effect of my shots on game because the crosshairs remain on target
*short barrel handy for home defense

I put the Red Star Arms target trigger and hammer on mine and purchased four Weiger magazines. It is the rifle my Mini 14's should have been. With a scope mounted, it weighs 10.5 pounds, which is a double edged sword in that it gets heavy for long strings of fire but all that weight makes for extremely fast semi-automatic shooting.

It is quite the deer gun when Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets are used as these do not explode on impact.

So what's not to like? Ugly as homemade sin.

Correia
November 7, 2006, 01:22 PM
Tromix .223 guns are absolutely awesome. (those of you who know who I am, know that I'm biased).

We did a custom gun for THR member Ben Shepherd's lovely wife. Saiga .223, threaded barrel, and ACE SOCOM folding collapsible stock. It is the coolest .223 AK that I've played with so far, and that's including my comp AKs. She put 700 rounds through it the first day, 0 malfunctions.

The magazines are not really an issue. The Tromix conversions use the still imported Bulgarian poly waffle magazines. They are available from K-Var. Buy 10, call it good.

buzz_knox
November 7, 2006, 01:29 PM
I have access to AKs all three calibers. I plan to set them up essentially identically, so training on one will generally translate to training on all (with certain allowances for going from 5.45/5.56 to 7.62 and back).

GTSteve03
November 7, 2006, 02:08 PM
I have access to AKs all three calibers. I plan to set them up essentially identically, so training on one will generally translate to training on all (with certain allowances for going from 5.45/5.56 to 7.62 and back).
Why not go whole hog and grab a .308 Saiga while you're at it? :evil:

As far as 5.56 AKs go, definitely check out the Saiga/conversions off the platform. A great quality new Russian-built rifle. I have a 7.62x39 that I converted myself with the Red Star trigger and KVAR stock and its a beauty.

Dave Markowitz
November 7, 2006, 02:53 PM
I've had several AKs in 7.62x39 (a SAR-1, converted Saiga, and an Arsenal SLR-101) and one in 5.56, and Arsenal SA M5. Overall, the milled receiver Arsenals are the nicest to shoot, feeling a lot more solid and have very smooth actions. Of my two Arsenals, the 5.56mm has less felt recoil and muzzle flip. It is a very sweet shooting rifle.

Grayrider
November 7, 2006, 04:55 PM
I have owned a bunch of AKs in 5.56. I would have to stop and think how many/what types. The platform works wonderfully in the caliber. You get AK reliability, light recoil, 5.56 compatability, and typically better accuracy than with a 7.62 caliber gun. I have settled on an Arsenal milled rifle, a KTR-03V, and a heavily customized SAR-3 as my 5.56 AKs of choice. All three run fine with Bulgarian black mags or converted bakelites using the Robinson followers. Depending on the gun I can also run Weiger mags or the clear Bulgarian mags (those seem a bit wider than the black ones for some reason). No issues at all for me in terms of mags. I do prefer the 7.62x39 cartridge, but having an AK in a U.S. military caliber holds a great deal of appeal.

John

Airburst
November 7, 2006, 05:32 PM
I have an 84S in .223. More accurate than the bigger bro. I have four magazines, but should prolly pick up another four at least.

wild billz
November 7, 2006, 08:08 PM
I am highly intrigued. Iíve been wanting an AK and an AR for awhile, and finally have the money for a AR saved up. Now it seems there is an opportunity for an AK that shoots more like an AR. How much do they run? I wonder if it will satisfy the desire I have for both?

the naked prophet
November 7, 2006, 10:55 PM
If I was going to buy one, it would take standard AR mags. No other way I'd buy one. Unless I thought I could convert it. Maybe if I had a shop with sheet steel stamping equipment, or a broken AR lower that I could hack apart and bolt onto the AK.

Anybody have a broken AR15 lower?

Don't Tread On Me
November 7, 2006, 11:20 PM
If 5.56 AK's were available in 1/8 twist or 1/7 and there was better availability of true .223 magazines at a decent price ($20 or less)...


This would be the all time no-brainer.

buzz_knox
November 7, 2006, 11:24 PM
The Arsenal SLR-106 uses a 1 in 7 twist barrel and $22 mags.

grimjaw
November 7, 2006, 11:54 PM
The Arsenal has a 1:7 twist I believe.

jm

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