Who says the 30-30 is a 3moa cartridge?


PDA






TheotherMikeG
November 7, 2006, 02:47 AM
I shot this group last Friday with my trusty Marlin 336 and an old Weaver K2.5

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o172/theothermikeg/1441.jpg

Shot seated at 200 yards, no sling.

I do hope y'all will forgive my excessive pride, but this is about the best shooting I've ever done.

If you enjoyed reading about "Who says the 30-30 is a 3moa cartridge?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
grimjaw
November 7, 2006, 03:04 AM
Handloads or factory?

jm

rangerruck
November 7, 2006, 03:32 AM
if that is a 200 yd group with a 3030 , then you are my new king. awesome!

critter
November 7, 2006, 08:28 AM
As with all rounds, it is difficult to separate the accuracy of the 'round' itself from that of the delivery platform, the rifle. The 30-30 has suffered (in accuracy reputation) from the many loosey-goosey, lightweight, worn out, open sighted lever guns from which it has been fired. True, SOME of them were tack drivers, but that was all too infrequent.

I know that I have a TC Contender Super 14" that will shoot 30-30 handloads into well under 1" at 100 yds as long as you want it to. From THAT gun, the 30-30 is as accurate as I want it to be.

Shawnee
November 7, 2006, 09:01 AM
OtherMIke...

Nice going, OtherMike !!! That is some 2-Thumbs-Up shooting, Lad!! :)

Frankly, as critter points out, the 30/30 cartridge is not anywhere near as bad in the Accuracy Dept. as lore would have us all believe.
Actual generations of people used the 30/30 without ever putting decent sights on it but, of course, they blamed the cartridge and/or rifle for the "inaccuracy". Fact was, too, the venerable Winchester models with their top-ejection stymied the use of good scopes on it for decades.
In the early part of the 20th century the inventers and hawkers of the new cartridges and bolt action guns gilt their wares by comparing them to the "inaccurate" 30/30 and other early smokeless or transitional cartridges). Gun writers all cast the "lowly 30/30" as an Old Maid from a woefully deprived age.
I can vouch from personal experience that miles on horseback - whether you're riding on the saddle or in the scabbard has the effect of torquing, bending and loosening one's assorted parts until neither Man nor Rifle is as physically sound as the day they left the showroom. And ranch/farm and backwoods life in general is as hard on guns just as it is on any tool.
But always the cartridge got blamed and, in the case of the 30/30, that's just so much apple sauce. A friend has an old Remington 788 in 30/30 and it will still make eyes bug out at the range. I've tried a few dozen Marlin 336s at the range and if given any chance at all they have all been "ThankYewVeryMuch:neener: !" in the "Respectable Group" Dept. :)

Dr. Dickie
November 7, 2006, 09:26 AM
Did you cut away the rest of the target to remove where the other 7 rounds hit?:neener:
Just kidding. Dang fine shooting.

Peter M. Eick
November 7, 2006, 09:34 AM
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/94_target.jpg

You did a lot better then I did. I was shooting 50 shots off the bench at 100 yards with open sights. I think with a scope I would have done a lot better.

Great job by the way!

TheotherMikeG
November 7, 2006, 09:40 AM
Grimjaw,

Factory loads-Monarch 170 gr (Privi Partisan?) from Academy sports. This stuff and 170 gr Remington Core-Lokt are both very accurate in my 336.

I'm interested to see how the LeverRevolution does. I had to hold over a bit to get this group on paper.

TheotherMikeG
November 7, 2006, 09:51 AM
I don't know Peter, let me shoot another 47 rounds and we'll see if I can keep up. :D

Bwana John
November 7, 2006, 11:24 AM
It is Peter's group that I find to be noteworthy. It has the elements of both accuracy and percision. I dont think the average shooter could do as well with many modern out of the box scope sighted hunting rifles shooting commerical ammo.

I do not wish to take away from your joy Mike, but 3 random shots close together do not impress me. What is the average of ALL 5 shot groups for that rifle/ammo combo? Even more importantly for a hunting rifle, where was the group on the target? 3 lucky shots do not make a MOA rifle.

Shawnee
November 7, 2006, 12:11 PM
Hi PeterM...

Peter - You do realize that you and I are best of friends, right?! I mean, you know I would never ever do anything to tick you off (especially at 100yds:eek: ), right?! You do understand that I have absolutely zero interest in having one/any of my flannel shirts look as moth-eaten as the center of that target, right?!
Why I was just tellin' a passle of Folks yesterday how I figure you and OtherMike are fellows all parents should try to model their sons after and how you two are the most kind and helpful and non-violent fellows in the County, and maybe the State, if not the entire Republic!

Kum Bye Ya, Bro !!:D

Essex County
November 7, 2006, 04:45 PM
Years ago I bought a 788 in 30-30, brand new 56 dollars. Once I was able to afford an old K-4 Weaver I found it would shoot MOA with about anything I could feed it. The gun has been gone for 30 years, but I wish I could find it and repurhase it. One of the guns I wish hadn't gotten away........Essex

de
November 7, 2006, 05:06 PM
I have a Winchester Model 94 3030 my Dad bought new in 1957. I have fired hundreds of rounds thru it. I have a Lyman receiver sight on it a post front with a white stripe and can consistantly hit gallon jugs of water at 270 yards with it. They are bulk 150grain bullets loaded in once or twice fired range brass at 2400 fps. Sometimes it take two shots at 300 yards to hit the jug.

Gewehr98
November 7, 2006, 05:10 PM
I know better - I've owned a Savage 340. ;)

High Planes Drifter
November 7, 2006, 05:31 PM
You know , I've got to say, looking at Peters target gets me depressed. Saturday I went to the range with my Remington 700 (.30-06) trying to sight it in. 2 Boxes of Rem. Cor-Lokt 180gr. in hand. Thats 40 rounds. By the time I opened the second box (20 rounds into the shoot), the barrel had heated up so badly the gun was shooting all over the paper. Literally. This is the second time its done that to me. I CANT shoot 2 boxes of ammo out of it and get any sort of reasonable group. No way could I do with my Remington .30-06 what Peter did with that .30-30. Not with 50 rounds. :cuss:

thread hijak over. Sorry TheotherMike, and Peter, and BTW great shooting.:)

Peter M. Eick
November 14, 2006, 05:24 PM
Shawnee,



http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/sm_targets2.jpg

Now here are nice targets. I was having a reasonably good day off the bench at 100 yards, so 50 shots per target. This is a SuperMatch by the way.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/eickpm/nm_target.jpg

Here is the same target shot with my NationalMatch.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
November 14, 2006, 06:29 PM
Now Peter, you're going to get me all upset about selling my Super all those years ago.

Good to see you around. Nice work with that M94, too. I'd say the same for the M1A work, but that's expected of you. :D

Regards,
Rabbit.

Colt46
November 14, 2006, 10:14 PM
for lack of accuracy. Two piece, lever action stocks, don't seem to be as solid as bolt actions. That said, you can tighten up many lever actions a bit. Remington made their Fugly 788 in .30-30 and they are capable of astounding groups.

superhornet
November 15, 2006, 09:36 AM
NEF SB2 30-30 SS, 150 gr CT Ballistic Silver Tip, Win brass, F210 primer, 32 grains W748....1" and under all day long at 100meters.....

MCgunner
November 15, 2006, 10:58 AM
Buddy of mine has a Winchester pre 64 M94 that will shoot 2 MOA with a receiver aperture sight all day long. I owned a Savage M340 in .30-30 that was a sub MOA gun with all sorts of loads I tried in it. It was a turn bolt, not a lever. I am convinced .30-30 is an inherently accurate round. If you can't shoot well with it, it's either the rifle or the shooter, not the round.

I shoot 1.5 MOA with my 12" hunter barrel TC contender. Shot a spike Sunday with it at about 80 yards. It will out shoot a lot of rifles that show up at the range an impresses folks that aren't into contenders enough to know. With more than the 2x scope I have on that gun, it might shoot a little tighter. It's a heck-uv-a hunting pistol. I love hunting with that thing.

BigG
November 15, 2006, 11:07 AM
There was a guy with a long bbled single shot pistol. The one where you turned the breech and it moved eccentrically to expose the chamber. It was a 30/30 and he'd shoot easily 1/2" 5 shot groups off the bench at 100 yd. It ain't the cartridge - it's the shooter.

George Hill
November 15, 2006, 12:18 PM
I regularly slay rabbits and p-dogs at 150 with my .30-30. Accuracy is not a problem. Flat nosed bullets are. But Hornady fixed that. Just wish they would release the bullets for reloading!

MCgunner
November 15, 2006, 12:28 PM
I regularly slay rabbits and p-dogs at 150 with my .30-30. Accuracy is not a problem. Flat nosed bullets are. But Hornady fixed that. Just wish they would release the bullets for reloading!

I shoot a Nosler Ballistic Tip 150 grain boat tail spitzer in my Contender .30-30. I don't need no stinkin' Hornadys. :D Of course, it ain't a tube magazine fed gun. The Noslers expand readily at .30-30 velocities. I've taken five deer so far with that load. I also worked up a 140 Barnes X load, but haven't used it on game.

If you enjoyed reading about "Who says the 30-30 is a 3moa cartridge?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!