P210, P226-ST, or Razorback?


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Dacos
January 5, 2003, 02:38 PM
I slobber over decisions like this one. For my next handgun purchase, I'm thinking about either a 9mm P210, 357 Sig P226 Stainless (coming Fall 2003, but I can wait), or a DW Razorback in 10 mm. I currently own .380, 9mm, and .45 caliber guns.

I would get the P210, but I don't know whether hammer bite will be a prob. I would get it customized by Novak as I like his work and I think he concentrated on its main flaws by offering deburring, an American-style mag release, new sights, etc. but I'm not a fan of beavertails (thus the hammerbite concern).

The 357 Sig P226-ST is due out in the Fall of 2003, but knowing Sigarms I expect it will more likely be this time next yr. I think the 226-ST in this caliber will rock.

Finally given all of the 10mm posts I've been reading, I'm starting to get interested in the DW razorback. Seems like DW designed this pistol taking into account a lot of 10 mm consumer opinions, their customer service is wonderful, and I like its looks. I'm a fan of Bull Barrel 1911's and wondering whether Barsto or someone else could provide me with one for this pistol.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my latest thoughts, but don't respond saying I should get all 3 as it's not ($) possible.

Shoot well!

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Triad
January 5, 2003, 02:59 PM
I think it depends on what you're looking for. You don't see alot of P210's, so it does have a certain appeal there that the others don't. You already have ammo for it, plus it's cheap to feed so you can shoot it more. If you're really wanting a 10mm, then the choice is obvious. You could buy either the P210 or the Razorback, and start saving your money for that 226. Ultimately, it's your decision, so let us know how it goes.

Sean Smith
January 5, 2003, 04:24 PM
If you are looking at a bull barrel I'd consider a Schuemann Ultimatch AET. A friend of mine has a couple of them in his SVs and they are pretty awesome. HEAVY even compared to a cone barrel.

Marko Kloos
January 5, 2003, 04:40 PM
The P210 is a very well-made gun, but I think it's way overpriced for the Swiss improvement on a 1930s French service pistol. (Best label for the P210 I've ever heard was "Gold Cup Tokarev".)

A 1911 in 10mm has some allure to it, and the SIG P220 is always a winner. I'd probably toss a coin between the Razorback and the 220ST, and invest the money I saved over the P210 in some training and ammo.

Tman
January 5, 2003, 04:59 PM
I would guess the cost of the Razorback + 226 might be close to the cost of the 210 alone? If that's the case you could buy both! (however, I not sure of the cost of the 226 in stainless). :D

Peter M. Eick
January 5, 2003, 09:16 PM
I have a razorback ordered, own 2 p210's (210-5, 210-6), a 229 sport and shoot a lot of 10mm so I think I can comment here.

The razorback is neat because if you order now you get custom lettering, mags numbered to your gun (my suggestion) and a hopefully great gun.

The 210's are unique. There is a lot of whining about them, but they are handguns with rifle accuracy. Yes it is an old design, but they are rare and unique. Mine always draws a crowd when I am shooting them. Besides, there is noting like nailing a clay pigeon nearly every time at 70 yards!

The 226 or in my case the 229 sport in 357 sig is fun and accurate. I shot mine 750 times yesterday it is is accurate reliable and fun. I really enjoy just plinking away at the range with it. At 20 yards I shot about 2.5" 50 round groups with it. Not bad for 50 shots offhand including mag changes. Mine does not have a problem with the first shot out of the mag going somewhere else and this is really nice.

I see also that someone suggest a 220. Interesting.

In my mind, the 210 is expensive but worth it. If you have the $2000 to drop on one go for it. If money is a bit more tight, I would look at the 226/razorback. Both are probably going to set you back a grand and change. The key choice is do you want to join the 10mm club (welcome if you do). The 220 would be my last choice. It is like going to a high class meal and asking for a "Bud". The 220 is to common, try something new and different.

Dacos
January 5, 2003, 09:46 PM
Peter,

Thanks for the advice. I'm not adverse to recoil or muzzle flash, but Percussion/Concussion/Audible Blast does bother me. I was wondering what it's like to shoot the 10mm taking that into account. I used to have a really nice Model 27 S&W but finally ended up selling it, b/c I realized I hated shooting it with about 1/3-1/2 the factory loads b/c of the blast (and yes, I always wear ear protection).

NordicG3K
January 5, 2003, 11:01 PM
I say go for the Razorback! I love my Colt Delta Gold Cup and if the Razorback turns out to be even close it should be a winner. As far as muzzle blast, I really don't notice the 10mm to be any different than a .45 in this department. Even recoil for the 10mm is more hype than reality if you ask me. The one thing I do notice in the 10mm is more muzzle flip as compared to other guns.

Jim Watson
January 5, 2003, 11:54 PM
Not to ask an embarassing question, but what is this new purchase going to be FOR?

Competition? The rules will limit you, the winners will have made some good choices already.

Hunting? I would not use any autopistol for big game hunting, not as long as I have my M29.

Informal target shooting without stable rules or scoring? Hey, wear yourself out, it doesn't matter.

The guns you list are not equivalent or interchangeable; my OPINIONS follow.
My P210 is finely made and very accurate. I consider it a precision target pistol, not my first choice as a defensive weapon or an action match gun. As you mention, it will take some gunsmithing at Novak to make it into an imitation of a 1911.
My P220 is a well laid out DA/SA service pistol. If you don't mind the crunch/tick. But I see no need to carry around the extra weight of the ST series.
My 1911s are my real pets; best for my sorts of competition or for fighting. I don't know anything about Dan Wesson as a brand.

I dislike adding calibers to buy or load for. I had rather have two different .45s than a .45 and a 10mm, for example. What can two adjacent calibers in the list show you?

Wildalaska
January 6, 2003, 02:05 AM
This is a no brainer buy the 210..limited production, the one you buy may be the last made...unbelievably accurate and has great snob appeal..will alwys be worth what you pay for it..

The rest...well sort of common...:D

BHP9
January 6, 2003, 01:30 PM
I would make the decision by asking myself what my intended purpose would be with the weapon. Example:

If I wanted a hunting gun I would lean toward the purchase of the 10mm provided the gun was a very heavy duty weapon able to take the repeated pounding of the 10mm. I am not familiar with what a Razor back even is but many weapons of the recent past that were chambered for the 10mm often had problems with wear and tear on the frame and slide so choose your new 10mm gun carefully.

If I wanted an all round super accurate , cheap to shoot , low recoil gun with out of this world quality and workmanship the answer is simple. The Sig P210. You will find no better 9mm anywhere in the world nor a more accurate one. It is the elite of the elite of 9mm's. The 9mm is also an easy cartridge to reload for. The weapon is noted for very long service life with very little parts wear or breakage. If you are not a reloader factory 9mm ammo is fairly cheap in comparison to the other two calibers. Cost is a big factor if you are buying the gun for recreation such as plinking which what most handguns end up being used for anyway.

The .357 sig caliber I would choose only if I did not plan on Hand loading for it. Bottle necked pistol cartridges can be a real pain to reload for even for the advanced reloader. They call for special dies if one wants to load economically priced lead bullets in. The bottle neck cartridges often limit one to certain bullet styles both jacketd and cast with enough bearing surface for the short necks to grab on to and special attention must be paid to the neck tension so that the bullets are held securely when reloaded. On the plus side most bottle necked cartridges feed very well. On the downside the ammo is way more expensive than 9mm and even if you do reload for it no super cheap surplus brass is available for it like there is with the 9mm military surplus cases which can often be bought for as little as 3 cents apiece. That factor alone would make the decision for me to go with the P210..

the .357 sig is a powerful cartridge and puts more wear and tear on the weapon depending on the model weapon than the lighter recoiling 9mm caliber which often can be fired many thousands of rounds with little wear on the weapon.

You will probably shoot the 9mm the best out of all of them simply because of the lower recoil. Remember everyone grows older and it happens far faster than any of us would even like to think about and one thing that you will not like when growing older is heavy recoiling firearms. I you plan on trading it off then this is not a concern but if you plan on keeping it as some people do then you are going in the long run to be much happier with the P210. No human is immune from the effects of recoil and if you are out to have a fun gun to shoot the 9mm is the better way to go because of the super accuracy of the P210 and the low cost of the ammo.

As was mentioned before the Sig p210 is a scarce pistol and this may be the last run of them ever made which will make your gun escalate wildly upward in value making it the best investment of the lot.

Jspy
January 7, 2003, 08:39 PM
I'm not sure if the appeal of the 226 is the cartridge or the SS aspect. Regular 226's are a dime a dozen ( at least the 9mm's) but the Sig 210's and the DW Razorbacks are definatly something you won't be seeing a lot of. I would probably lean towards the 210 first (9mm, ammo costs, cool factor) or perhaps one of the Danish M49's. Razorback, second (limited edition, cool factor) then the 226 (upside ?).

By the way, I have a 226, a Sig 210, and a Razorback ordered (#29 of 150, with no front serrations) :D

lunde
April 12, 2003, 11:06 AM
My vote goes to the Sig P226ST (mine is chambered in .357 Sig). ;)

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p226st-left.jpg

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p226st-right.jpg

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p226st-left-full.jpg

Sean Smith
April 12, 2003, 01:59 PM
Best label for the P210 I've ever heard was "Gold Cup Tokarev".

An ignorant statement impersonating wit.

firestar
April 13, 2003, 12:13 AM
I can think of a better way to spend $2500 than a P-210. For what you get, I do think they are way over priced. I have never shot one but I have handled them and they don't impress me much. You could get a really nice BHP with custom work for far less and it will shoot good.

Dacos
April 13, 2003, 01:12 AM
Dr. Lunde,

Great pics here and on sigforum.com. Looks like you're really enjoying the new P226ST in .357 Sig. Curious what you think of the gun's balance and how it tames the recoil? I shot a P229 recently in .357 Sig and was turned off by the high bore axis, but think this might be less of an issue with a steel frame. Also, is the trigger serated or smooth?

Good shooting, Dacos

lunde
April 13, 2003, 11:23 AM
The P226ST has excellent balance, and the hefty frame tames the recoil well. The trigger's face is smooth. You can see that it's smooth in these photos:

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p226st-5.jpg

http://www.praxagora.com/lunde/photos/p226st-8.jpg

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